The transcripts of the trial of Charles Taylor, former President of Liberia. More…

  • Mr Kolleh, when we broke off we were talking about your affidavit. And, your Honour, I would like that brought to the witness but this should be treated, because of upcoming pages, confidentially, because the name of a protected witness is mentioned. So if the witness could just be given a copy of it without the affidavit being put on the screen.

    Now, Mr Witness, you said the person that you identified as David Crane told you to tell the truth and nothing but the truth, correct?

  • Yes, sir.

  • Had you seen David Crane's photograph before?

  • Had you seen him at Outreach activities for the Court?

  • I saw him in person when I arrived in the conference room, that was my first time I met him.

  • Okay. And you've described him as a white man with white glasses. What else can you tell us about him?

  • I say I met him, he was sitting and he had white glasses on the face.

  • Yes. Can you describe him further, please?

  • There's nothing else you can tell us about his appearance?

  • No, because he was sitting. If he was standing I was going to describe.

  • Did he have black hair? Was he bald like me? What colour was his hair?

  • The condition I was under, I could not actually watch him to really admire or remember his full appearance, because no sooner I sat he told me to spin the chair around.

  • Now, you said that he gave you a card. Is that correct?

  • Yes, I say he sent a card to me and I took it.

  • What do you mean when you say he sent it to you?

  • He did not walk to give me, he sent the card to me. He said, "You can have that card."

  • When you say he sent it you mean he mailed it to you? What so you mean when you say he sent it to you?

  • He just chucked it to me. That's what I'm saying. He chucked it to me and I took it.

  • Okay. And, sir, this card is not very important to you now; you said that we can keep it, correct? You don't mind that the Court keeps this card?

  • The Court told me that they would keep the card until after my evidence they can give it back to me. I said I don't have problem with that.

  • Could I please have the MFI-5, please.

  • Mr Kolleh, there's an article - there's something written on the card, you recall, a message to kids. Is that right?

  • And did that scare you?

  • A message to kids that if they don't obey their parents you'll have to deal with me, that scared you?

  • Why did it scare you?

  • They are telling me - he asked me if I want to see Issa. I said, "I did not come to see Issa Sesay." And he asked me, "Then I need nothing from you but the truth." That was the time he sent the card to me. So everything that was said to me was said under harsh condition and then that's why I say I was under tension.

  • And you were afraid to tell the truth. Is that right?

  • What I knew is what I told them. But what they were telling me to say, I never knew about that, so that's why we did not hold.

  • Actually, that's not true. You didn't tell them what you knew. You lied to them. Isn't that right?

  • The question they asked me about diamond to Liberia, Liberia to Sierra Leone, I never knew about that. They were asking me question.

  • Well, let's first start off with your name. Did you tell them your true name?

  • I told you earlier that it was because of fear I have to change my name. I have said this to you over three different times since Wednesday you begin to talk - Thursday you started talking to me I told you since.

  • Okay. Thank you. You're correct. So you did lie, you lied about your name, correct?

  • I say I changed my name because of fear, yes.

  • Okay. So you lied about your name and you lied about the fact that you were trained in Liberia, correct?

  • And you lied about the fact that you were captured by the NPFL, correct?

  • They did not ask me about capturing by NPFL. They did not ask me that question.

  • Sir, didn't you tell them that you were abducted by Tonkara as you had told them in earlier interviews?

  • I had told you earlier I was captured by Tonkara.

  • Well, you didn't tell me that. You lied to the investigators and you told them that you were captured by Tonkara in Sierra Leone, correct?

  • I changed my address, yes, because of fear.

  • Well, Mr Kolleh, you keep saying you changed your address. The issue is did you tell the truth that you were captured by an NPFL - well, let me rephrase the question. You lied in all of your interviews with the Prosecution, all three of them, by saying not the truth, which was that you were captured by an NPFL soldier in Liberia, but rather a lie saying that you were captured by Tonkara in Sierra Leone. That's right, isn't it?

  • I told you because of fear I changed the time I joined the RUF. I told you since Thursday. I say I have to change how I joined the RUF. I changed my name also. I told you because of fear.

  • So you were willing to lie to the Prosecution and you did lie to the Prosecution, correct?

  • Please be specific on the question, sir.

  • Well, I think it's quite specific. You were ready and willing to lie and you did lie to the Prosecution. Isn't that true?

  • I was willing to change my address to the Prosecution because of tension, fears, information that we were going to be arrested, senior officers. So I told you earlier that I changed my address for this reason, I told you since.

  • You didn't tell the Prosecution that the vanguards, including you, were trained at an NPFL base in Liberia. You never told them that, did you?

  • And that would protect the sponsor of the vanguards, Charles Taylor, wouldn't it?

  • No, that was not the reason.

  • Now, sir, why did you hold on to this card which you now say you don't need any more, for the last - since 2003 until now? Why have you kept this card for seven years?

  • It was in my bag. All of those addresses were in my bag.

  • My personal travelling bag. I always have my documents in the bag. My important documents I have in the bag.

  • Did you consider this an important document?

  • Oh, yes, something that I went through - a condition that I went through, what I experienced, you keep those things for remembrance. I kept it for remembrance.

  • So you kept it as a memory, like someone keeps a photograph of their high school class. Is that right?

  • Yes, I told you they were important to me so I have to keep them as a remembrance.

  • So, sir, when you spoke to the Defence, you said you first spoke to them in - why don't you remind me, which year did you first speak to the Defence?

  • I think it was 2009. I don't remember the main time, sir, I told you yesterday. I don't actually remember the main time.

  • Well, sir, I'm not talking now, of course, about your conversations with John Vincent. When is the first time you met Mr Gray or Prince Taylor or Gus? What year was that?

  • I'm sure it was in 2009 early or 2008 ending. I don't just remember the main time, sir.

  • Okay. So when you spoke to them, you had already told Vincent about your contacts with the Prosecution, correct?

  • I told you I did not tell Vincent about Prosecution.

  • Do you want to repeat that? You're saying now you did not tell John Vincent about your contact with the --

  • Defence. Defence. Sorry. Defence. I did not tell Vincent about Defence, sorry.

  • You did tell John Vincent about your contacts with the Prosecution. Is that correct?

    Why can't you answer the question, sir?

  • I am trying to recall, sir. You first asked me about Defence for Vincent and I said no, I did not.

  • Sir, didn't you tell us previously that you told John Vincent about your contacts with the Prosecution; that you had been interviewed by the Prosecution?

  • I'm forgetting a bit, but --

  • Sir, are you forgetting because you're making it up?

  • You told us on 4 November, Thursday, that you first talked to Vincent when the Prosecution met you in 2003. So you told Vincent about meeting the Prosecution, correct?

  • Yes, that's what I was saying. I said I was forgetting a bit. Because I was thinking between the Defence and the Prosecution. But for Defence I did not talk to Vincent about Defence, sir. That's what I told you, I was forgetting a bit.

  • So, sir, when you spoke to the Defence, you told them, that's Gus and Gray and Prince Taylor - you told them also about your conversations with the Prosecution, correct?

  • Did you tell them about how David Crane made you feel threatened by giving you a card?

  • Well, if we could look again at the summary of your evidence that was filed. I believe that was MFI-14. We will see, sir, at the top that this is filed on 12 May 2010. And you actually, as we saw - or perhaps we haven't. You've told us before that you were scheduled to testify in April. I'd also like to now distribute a document, filing 940 of the Defence witness order for 26 to 30 April.

    Sir, in the summary that the Defence filed in May, even after you were originally scheduled to testify, as I count it, 12 paragraphs about your anticipated evidence, there's nothing about you having contacts with the Prosecution or being threatened or offered bribes by the Prosecution. That's because you never had said anything to the Defence, at least through 12 May 2010 when this was filed, about this story that you've made up about being threatened and offered bribes by the Prosecution. Isn't that true?

  • I made a statement, sir. I said I was threatened by the Prosecution.

  • Well, sir, all we have to rely on is a summary that the Defence is required to file of the important statements of facts that you are going to testify about. And what this summary is quite lengthy in comparison to other summaries we've received, 12 paragraphs, says absolutely nothing about you being threatened or bribed by the Prosecution. That's something you've made up since May, as this case has gotten more and more desperate for the Defence; isn't that true?

  • I did mention, I told you. I did mention.

  • Well, do you have any document that you can point to that shows that you told anybody about this before May 2010? I'm waiting for your answer. Do you have any document, sir?

  • I don't have any documents.

  • Sir, there's another document I'd like you to look at now, it is filing 940, and it has CMS pages 28569 to 28573. It's the Defence witness order for the week of 26 through 30 April, 2010.

  • Mr Koumjian, did you intend to give us a copy of the witness statement for this witness that you have just referred to in cross-examination?

  • The summary?

  • Yes. I have the summary MFI-14 that you gave yesterday but you have just referred to an earlier one.

  • Did you intend us to see that?

  • I don't have any --

  • I see. That's all right. As long as I know, because it's not in this document that's just been handed to us.

  • Correct. Just to be clear, we made a motion - just to remind everyone, for the witness statements, which was denied prior to the witness taking the stand.

  • Mr Witness, in this witness order --

  • It was denied at the end of examination-in-chief. And I think, Justice Doherty, you weren't actually in court then. It wasn't before he took the stand. It was at the usual and appropriate time.

  • Correct. Thank you.

  • Thank you for that clarification.

  • Sir, going to annex A, on page 4 of this document, we see that the witness listed is only a single witness, DCT-102, and Mr Kolleh, that is you. And it's anticipated your direct examination would take three days.

    If you turn the page, sir, the anticipated exhibits for you consists of letters from the Prosecution to the Defence and the Defence to the Prosecution. There's no card. There's no cards of Chris - there's certainly no card of Don Ray listed as an exhibit.

  • Now, Mr Witness, had you told the Defence about these threats and offers of bribery before May? The date of the filing of the summary was 12 May - 12 May 2010.

  • Mr Koumjian, I just want to be clear. This document's dated 12 April. Is there another one?

  • No, that was a summary. Summary is dated 12 May.

  • Well, before 12 April or 12 May, had you told the Defence about these alleged threats and offers of bribes to you?

  • I told the Defence about this threat from the Prosecution, I did somewhere in 2010. I don't just remember the main dates, sir, I think it was after this April, sometime like that.

  • This year. Now, you said you spoke to the Defence, I believe, at 2008, you said you first spoke to Mr Gray, Prince Taylor and Gus. So you never said anything to them for two years, is that right, about these alleged threats and offers of bribery?

  • Not for two years, sir.

  • I'd like another document distributed. It's actually two documents I'd like distributed now. One is a newspaper article and the other's a letter.

    And before I do that, could the filing of the Defence witness order for 26 to 30 April, including annex B, which includes the anticipated exhibits, be given an MFI number, please.

  • That document is marked MFI-16.

  • Now, Mr Kolleh, in 2002 and 2003, you were in Kailahun, correct?

  • And you still had friends who were ex=RUF in that area, is that correct?

  • You also said you spent a lot of time, if I'm - correct me if I'm wrong, at the Pakistani battalion headquarters, is that right?

  • A lot of time to - I was with them in Kailahun, they were the peacekeepers. I were close to them as somebody who disarmed before, so we all used to go there, sometimes we get food to eat, we all come down.

  • And did you have contact with civilian police, the CIVPOLs, the UN CIVPOLs?

  • I'm showing you, first - I'd like to first show the witness the document with the title, "Mountie Perplexed".

    Sir, do you recognise the man with the uniform in the photograph?

  • No, sir.

  • Okay. We see the caption under it, it says, "RCMP Corporal Don Ray, stands near Sierra Leone's border with war-torn Liberia. Ray is in Sierra Leone to help police restore law and order after that country's civil war." And perhaps - I hope not to have to read all of this but I'll read a bit of it on the record. It says:

    "One of the biggest differences between policing in Slave Lake and in Sierra Leone is that in small town Africa, you don't always need a jail to keep the prisoners in one spot. Slave Lake Mountie Corporal Don Ray is in the Sierra Leone town of Kailahun helping the local police restore law and order to the West African state after ferocious civil war."

    And then:

    "'In Sierra Leone you have 100 per cent compliance from everyone who deals with the police,' he told The Sun. 'This Kailahun station doesn't have cells at the present time so prisoners are asked to sit on a bench in an open room with no doors or bars and told to wait until they either sober up or are replaced. Amazingly, they do. Could you imagine the EPS or the RCMP expecting the same thing? No way.'"

    Skipping a paragraph. "'The people in every town I've lived in have treated me as one of their own and Kailahun is no different. Of course the people in Kailahun have their own way of showing appreciation for a job well done. In Alberta, you might get a handshake and a slap in the back. In Africa, you get livestock. Talk about nice people,' said Ray. One of the local chiefs recently presented him with a goat as a gift."

    That's all I'm going to read at this point in the article.

    May the article be marked next in order, please, your Honour.

  • Yes, that article is marked MFI-17.

  • My learned friend has asked Mr Kolleh if he recognises the man in the picture. But I do inquire, is there any purpose in reading out all that material? Is there any question going to come from it or is that it?

  • Well, the document, of course, is relevant to this witness's testimony as to where he got the card.

  • Well, I was anticipating that these arguments would be put when you seek to tender the document, Mr Koumjian, and I am presuming that you are going to tender it.

  • I haven't heard anything from the witness that would make this document relevant. He didn't under - this, as I say, is more appropriately considered when you attempt to tender. At the moment I've simply marked it for identification so we can identify the document we're talking about when the arguments start. But all I heard the witness say is that he didn't recognise the person in the photo. I can't see any other link to the witness in this article.

  • Mr Witness, you lived in Kailahun in 2003, correct?

  • Yes, sir.

  • And in 2002, is that also correct?

  • You had contact with the civilian police, isn't that right?

  • I didn't have special contact with civilian police. For the matter of fact that we were disarmed and they were the people in charge of disarmament, that's how we were working hands to hands but I did not know any of them personally.

  • So you were working hand in hand with civilian police in Kailahun, correct?

  • Yeah, they were in charge of the disarmament also with others.

  • So, sir, can you say whether or not you had contact at some point with Don Ray?

  • I didn't know Don Ray.

  • Can you say whether or not your colleagues, someone like your adjutant, Stephen Jusu Moriba, had contact with Don Ray?

  • It certainly is possible that your friends, such as Stephen Jusu Moriba, had contact with Don Ray in Kailahun, isn't it?

  • No, sir, not to my knowledge.

  • Well, why is it not possible?

  • It is not possible. Stephen Jusu Moriba was my adjutant during the time of operation. When everything was ceased, we were on our own, doing our cold water time selling and other things. We never had much time with Interpol or what have you, we sometimes go to Pakistan when we were called along with civilians for food supplies. That's what I know of. I did not send Jusu, or Jusu did not go to Interpol. For what purpose?

  • Well, sir, you talked about your own contacts with Interpol in your affidavit. Are you now saying you did not have any contacts with any police - international? Sir --

  • You are talking about contacts. I did not go to any Interpol for personal contacts, for direct conversation on the relationship, no. It is from when I was taken to the police station and then up to the contingent headquarters, that was the time I went. The person I met, it was the person that I talked to. They were all police. I did not go to somebody I knew personally, with a special name that I knew. I did not go to somebody that I was used to. Whomsoever I met, I confronted.

  • Well, sir, so you confirm that you had personal contact with international police?

  • It is not - the language should not be personal, sir. I mean, I talked to a police that I met. I contacted him to explain what I'm passing through. That's what I'm saying. If you talk about personal contact, it's like you have a direct friend within the MILOBs or the Interpol and that did not happen, sir.

  • Well, sir, I didn't say anything about a friendship. I said "personal contact". You don't understand what that means?

  • Personal contact could also mean a relationship, on the purpose of relationship. Because meaning that you are used to that person and you always have a link with that person. That's how I understand it to be.

  • Since you don't understand the word, let me make it clear. Personal contact means you have met them, you perhaps have had a conversation with them, you perhaps shook their hand, they perhaps exchanged anything with you. All of that is personal contact.

  • Yes, but there was no handshaking because I was frustrated when I met the first person I got in contact with. I only tried to explain what was happening to me. I was under complete frustration.

  • Well, sir, if you had no prior dealings before the time you went, according to your affidavit, to speak to your Interpol, I think you call it, connections, why would you trust them? Why did you go to them?

  • You are talking about military observers and I could not go to the armed men. These people were police. Police, nothing about police. Police mainly deal with issues regarding security. So that's why I went with them, to consult. I did not have to go to armed soldier to tell him this is what happening. You have to go to the police. Normally even when something happen the police have to intervene.

  • So the police that you went and talked to after being visited by the Special Court were not people you knew before. Or, excuse me, you went to see MILOBs or you went to see the police, which was it?

  • I consider all of these people MILOBs, Interpol, anyone. They people were in the same compound. They lived there apart from the armed men. So I did not actually know this is the function of the MILOBs and this is the function of the police, but I know they all lived together in the compound.

  • So who did you go to see to speak to after you said the Special Court contacted you?

  • I said I went to Interpol. They all lived together. Whosoever - the first person I met from that compound was the person I talked to. This is what I'm saying.

  • And were these people you knew before?

  • Yes, we worked together before. This is what I'm saying.

  • But when you are talking about knowing somebody, I --

  • Please wait for the question. Do you consider working with someone having personal contact?

  • Personal contact with what, sir?

  • Sir, you were just trying to say you had no personal contact with any police and it was not possible for Stephen Jusu Moriba to have had personal contact with the police. You worked with the police, international police, isn't that true?

  • Yes, I worked with them during disarmament.

  • So you did have personal contact with them. Isn't that true?

  • I talked to one of them for issues that was going around me. This is what I'm saying. But for Stephen Jusu Moriba is not to my knowledge.

  • Well, you didn't just talk to one person one time. You worked with them in disarmament. Isn't that correct?

  • Yes, I worked with them during disarmament.

  • Other RUF that you knew worked with the civilian police in disarmament, correct?

  • I don't know how to answer that question, but once we were disarming, these people, we all worked with them. I did not earmark somebody directly to say he was working again with the people. We were not divided that way. Once order dropped to disarm, these people were there to monitor and to make sure that we gave the arms.

  • I have another document and I believe counsel has it already, and this is a letter addressed to me from Sergeant Don P Ray of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, dated November 2, 2010.

  • Sir, this letter indicates in the first line that Don Ray served in Sierra Leone as a UNAMSIL CIVPOL mentor team leader from April 30, 2003 to the end of his mission on February 2, 2004. It says during that time he was stationed in the eastern town of Kailahun, Sierra Leone, and I'll read the entire letter since it doesn't take long:

    "As a result of being in a remote location of Sierra Leone, I was often called upon to assist the Special Court on logistical matters and on one occasion conducted an interview on an individual who had been a house boy for a subject of interest. While in Freetown I met Chief Prosecutor David Crane several times on an informal basis in a group setting. This would involve members of my Canadian contingent going for dinner at places like Mamba Point. I never had any discussion with Mr Crane about the Special Court's ongoing investigations, nor did I ever provide him with one of my police cards.

    The police card I am talking about has a picture of me on the front where I am in working uniform and standing in front of a jail cell. As a police mentor in Kailahun I was very involved in community relations. It is in this capacity that I handed out several hundred of these police cards. They were provided to citizens and police officers of Sierra Leone as well as the different AFL and LURD rebels that I came across during my duties.

    Insofar as Sam Mustapha Koroma is concerned, I have had an opportunity to look at the two pictures of him provided to me and I do not recognise Mr Koroma. I am confident I have never spoken to him and I am certain I have never had any investigational or covert dealings with him. Should the Court require any further information, I am at your disposal."

    And it indicates it's sworn before a Commissioner of Oaths.

    Mr Kolleh, I'm putting it to you that hundreds of these cards that you provided the Defence apparently sometime after May of 2010 - hundreds of these cards were in circulation in Kailahun. You didn't get this card from David Crane, did you?

  • I got this card from David Crane, sir.

  • And according to you, you got the card from David Crane, kept it even from your move from Sierra Leone to Liberia, correct?

  • Come again?

  • You moved from Sierra Leone to Liberia in 2005. Is that right?

  • And you kept the card, correct?

  • Yes, all along I've been having the card.

  • Your house, or one of your houses, was burnt down in 2004, correct?

  • The card survived that, this card. Is that right?

  • But this card was not destroyed in that fire, correct?

  • I was not staying in the house, sir, so it did not get destroyed. I was not staying in the house. I rent the house to NGOs and they kept gasoline and it burnt. I was not staying in the house.

  • Sir, when did you give this card to the Defence?

  • I remember I gave this card I think early 2010. This 2010 I think, sir. I don't just remember the main date.

  • Before you came to The Hague?

  • Well, when in 2010 did you give it to them, do you recall?

  • I want to go back for a moment to your affidavit. Excuse me, your Honour. May the letter be marked next in order.

  • That letter from Don P Ray to Nick Koumjian, dated 2 November 2010, is marked for identification MFI-18.

  • Now, sir, I want to go back to this for a few moments, to what you've written here. First, after the last conversation, I want to re-read paragraph 6 of what you wrote in the affidavit. You said:

    "After they had left", meaning Chris Bomford and other members of the Prosecution, "I went to see some members of Interpol that I had worked with during disarmament to ask what was happening. I should hasten to add that by then I had already appeared and given evidence before the TRC in Kailahun. People from the TRC had come to me three times before I went to give evidence. I understood from a person who worked for the TRC in Kailahun that if I did not cooperate they would have me arrested. This was the time I first understood the term 'sweeping'."

    So, Mr Kolleh, you're alleging that you were threatened into giving evidence before the TRC. Is that correct?

  • Yes, the TRC --

  • Of Sierra Leone, that is.

  • How about the TRC of Liberia? Did you testify before them?

  • They asked you to, didn't they?

  • No, sir. I have never been contacted by Liberia TRC, sir.

  • Well, I have another document to distribute about that then, sir. Have you ever heard that the Liberian TRC wanted you to appear to give a statement?

  • No, sir, I told you earlier I did not fight war in Liberia, so information about Liberia, I'm far from that, sir. Liberia TRC, no, sir.

  • Mr Kolleh, this is a document I'm about to show you that is from the website of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Liberia and it's entitled "List of persons of interest to the TRC inquiry process who are required to appear before the TRC because of their unique experiences and knowledge of the events of the past - covering the period 1979 to 2003", and it's dated 7 December 2008. It also says in the following paragraph that the persons are required to call the TRC offices between 9.00 and 6.00 between December 1 and December 17, 2008 and it gives the phone numbers.

    The third page in, which it says at the top 5 of 6, it's listed in alphabetical order, so if we look five names up, it's your name, Sam Kolleh. So, Mr Kolleh --

  • That's not my name, sir. Look at the name again, please. Just look at it thoroughly.

  • How is it not your name, sir?

  • That's what I say. Look at it again on the screen. Look at it thoroughly. Look at the spelling. It is not my name, sir.

  • How is it different than your name, sir?

  • You are talking about up, the first name on the first number, that's why I said no. But if you come down and see the name there, I mean but I did not attend TRC in Liberia. If anybody tells you that I attended the TRC, then --

  • I think the issue before us at the moment is what is different between the name shown on this document and what you say is your name?

  • My name is Sam F Kolleh. And he told me first to look at the first name on the list where I saw K-O-L-L-E-N I think A-H. I said that was not my name and he told me to come down. I have come down.

  • No, listen to me, Mr Kolleh. You've got the question completely wrong. Will you repeat your question, Mr Koumjian.

  • I indicated that this was in alphabetical order and you've told us, you're in college, university, for the second time. Five names up I told you from the bottom, you see the name Sam Kolleh. It's spelt Kolleh, K-O-L-L-E-H, and if we look at how you spelt your name on 1st November in your testimony before this Court, that's exactly how you spelt your last name at page 48366.

    So, Mr Kolleh, didn't you hear that the TRC was looking for Sam Kolleh?

  • No, sir, I, Sam F Kolleh, no, I did not attend TRC in Liberia. I'm always telling you I'm far from Liberia issues. I don't know how there's a Sam Kolleh there. I, Sam F Kolleh, I did not attend TRC in Liberia.

  • What is the witness saying? What are you saying, Mr Witness, that the Sam Kolleh in this list is a different person from Sam F Kolleh?

  • Yes, sir. I am not the one. I did not attend TRC. If you check those that attended TRC, again, in Liberia and go through the document, I did not.

  • So you would always --

  • Mr Witness, I understood counsel to ask you was the TRC looking for you. Looking for you.

  • Come again, ma'am, please.

  • Mr Koumjian, would you put your original question, please, so that I also hear it.

  • Mr Kolleh, you are aware that you were summoned by the TRC of Liberia, you were a person that they wanted to appear before them. You knew that, didn't you?

  • None of your friends told you that?

  • And you're saying that the name is different because you are Sam F Kolleh and not Sam Kolleh. That Sam Kolleh's different than Sam F Kolleh, is that right?

  • Yes, sir, the name on that particular document. There was no TRC involving any RUF fighter inside Liberia, it was never.

  • May this document, the three-page TRC document, be marked next in order. We actually only need the first page and page, what would be - what's marked 5 of 6, so pages on the top 3 of 6 and 5 of 6.

  • Yes. The document titled, "List of persons of interest to the TRC inquiry", pages 3 of 6 and 5 of 6, is marked for identification, MFI-19.

  • Now, Mr Kolleh, another document has been distributed to you. This is a letter dated 22 of February - excuse me, this should not be put on the screen, this is confidential. And, in fact, I'm not going to be able to show it to the witness. It should be taken away from the witness. We could, if necessary, we can print a redacted version.

    Mr Witness, what this shows is that the Defence disclose the names of 10 potential witnesses to us and you appear, or number 7 is DCT-102, Sam Kolleh, alias NA, not applicable. Many of the other names have an alias, in fact, of the ten, all but four have an alias.

    So, sir, did you tell the Defence that your name was Sam F Kolleh or did you tell them your name was Sam Kolleh.

  • Sam F Kolleh. Sam Kolleh, most people can call me Sam Kolleh, Sam F Kolleh.

  • And, sir, let's go back to your affidavit that you signed in this case in September. While that's being done, could this two-page document, the letter of 22 February 2010 be marked confidentially?

  • That document is marked MFI-20 and will be classified confidential.

  • Sir, we see here this affidavit that you signed for the Defence making these very serious threats - very serious accusations of being threatened and offered bribes by the Prosecution. It is, what I say, full of lies. The first sentence says "I am Sam Kolleh". It doesn't say Sam F Kolleh. So, sir, were you lying when you said in the first sentence "I am Sam Kolleh"?

  • My name is Sam Kolleh. I told you there was no RUF fighting in TRC in Liberia. It was never. That was never. It did not ever happen.

  • Sir, a moment ago you told us your name was not Sam Kolleh, it was Sam F Kolleh?

  • I told you I am Sam F Kolleh. I said it's Sam Kolleh I'm seeing there. I did not attend TRC in Liberia. I keep saying this. Most people call me Sam Kolleh, I am Sam F Kolleh. Most people call me Sam Kolleh. Most often in Africa when you are called, perhaps they may not just address the middle name, they may call just your first and your last name. But I told you, that name I saw there, no RUF was invited in the TRC in Liberia. I did not fight in Liberia, how can I be involved in TRC?

  • Sir, the document we just looked at that had the name Sam Kolleh that was disclosed to us by the Defence with no alias, when did you tell the Defence that you talked to the Prosecution under a false name, Mustapha Koroma?

  • I don't remember the main date, sir.

  • Did you tell them that living for years in Kailahun under that false name, under that alias?

  • No? Did you tell them that you testified before the TRC under a false name?

  • I was not asked questions pertaining to TRC at that time.

  • So the answer is no, you did not tell them that you testified under a false name.

  • I used the name on the TRC as Sam Koroma, Sam Mustapha Koroma, and the Prosecution. I did admit that last week, sir.

  • Mr Kolleh, if we both talk at the same time the Court reporter can't write it down. So wait until I finish the question. I'll try to do the same. I'll wait until you finish the answer.

    Sir, did you tell the Defence that you disarmed under a false name, Mustapha Koroma or Sam Mustapha Koroma?

  • When did you tell the Defence that?

  • I am forgetting the time, sir.

  • Well, it was before you came here to The Hague?

  • Do you know why the Defence never told us that that was your alias?

  • Do you know why the Defence, for example, in the document I just showed you, or just talked to you about, the - well, I didn't show it to you. In the document from February where your name was given as Sam Kolleh, why the Defence didn't tell us that you had another name, an alias?

  • Please ask your question again, sir.

  • Sir, you never told the Defence that you were using that alias, did you?

  • I told the Defence that I used that name to disarm.

  • For the Prosecution and during disarmament, sir. I said it. You asked me last week. I did answer that question to you.

  • Sir, in this affidavit of affirmation that you signed, you discuss in detail what you say your dealings with the Prosecution were. You never say that you used a false name, do you?

  • I say I used different name, which was Sam Mustapha Koroma.

  • Well, sir, is the affidavit of affirmation before the witness? Can you show me where you say that in this, sir.

  • I don't know whether it's recorded there. But I told yourself, I told you when you asked me last week; I said disarmament, TRC and Prosecution. You asked me the question last week; I told you, yes, I used Sam Mustapha Koroma. This is the third question you're asking me.

  • What do you mean, sir, when you say you did not know - you do not know if it was recorded? Who wrote this?

  • I told you, Gus, Gray, John Gray.

  • Thank you. Yesterday you told us Logan. So that wasn't true. Gus and Gray wrote this?

  • You told me after I talked with Gus and Gray, did I ever talk with any other person. I said, yes, I talked with Logan. You asked me the question yesterday, I said it.

  • Well, we'll look that up, sir. You are saying that you never said that Logan wrote this affidavit for you?

  • You're asking me?

  • Did you tell us yesterday, or Friday, that Logan wrote the affidavit?

  • You told me after I talked with Gray and Gus, did I ever talk with any other person, I say yes --

  • Sir, answer the question. The question was; did you tell us Logan wrote the affidavit?

  • But it actually was Gus and Mr Gray, correct?

  • Those were the first two persons I started with.

  • Mr Witness, who wrote the affidavit?

  • This document, I started talking with Gray and Gus, later Logan, sir. That's what I'm saying.

  • You only spoke with Gus and Mr Gray but Logan wrote the affidavit for you, is that what you're saying?

  • Yeah, Logan took statement from me also and Gus also. From the - the first people I met was Gus and Gray.

  • Look, I'm trying to understand what you're saying, Mr Kolleh, and I can't understand what you're trying to tell the Court.

  • Who wrote the affidavit? I'm not asking you who you spoke with or who took statements from you. The simple question is; who wrote that affidavit that you signed?

  • Sir, you said you signed the affidavit in Mr Supuwood's office, correct?

  • I don't know whether it is his office. I said he was there. I don't know whether it is his office.

  • Were you there when this document actually was written or did someone hand it to you to sign?

  • It was handed over to me to sign.

  • Who was there when the document was handed to you to sign?

  • Anybody else?

  • Gray was there also.

  • And this was at Supuwood's office?

  • I told you, I say I don't know whether that was his office.

  • It was a place where Supuwood was also there then, correct?

  • So the three of them, is that right?

  • No one else, correct?

  • Okay. Thank you. Because, sir, if we look at yesterday's transcript, please, page 48963. You say - going to the bottom of the page. I was asking you about the affidavit. And line 26, I said:

    "Q. And, sir, who gave it to you to sign?

    A. It was given to me by the Defence to sign.

    Q. Who, sir, who gave it to you to sign?

    A. It was given to me by Logan to sign."

    Sir, just now you named Gus, Gray, Supuwood and, finally, Silas, as being present when the document was handed to you to sign. Why can't you keep your story straight about this affidavit?

  • You did not ask me who gave me to sign. You told me who were present. I told you yesterday that Logan gave me that document to sign. You told me in the presence of whom? I said Gus, Gray and Silas. I told you. You were asking me who were present when the document was handed to you to sign. And these people were around. That's what I'm saying. The question you ask me is how I answer.

  • Mr President, it's page 35 and in my font the question appears at line 19:

    "Q. Who was there when the document was handed to you to


    That is the question that the witness was asked in as simple a way as that and he's been giving a straightforward answer.

  • And you've mentioned all the people being there, you mentioned Gus, you mentioned Gray, you mentioned Supuwood and Silas, but you never mentioned Logan.

  • You told me in the presence of whom? Who all were present when this document was handed? You did not ask me who handed the document to you to sign, but you asked me who were around? That's why I tried to name these people.

  • Sir, the Defence attorney Mr Munyard correctly pointed out exactly what my question was. I don't want to waste too much time. I'll read it to you one more time. And the question was: "Who was there when the document was handed to you to sign?" That was the question.

  • Asked and answered, to quote Mr Koumjian on many a previous occasion.

  • I appreciate it. I agree. The witness has just misstated what I asked him.

  • It was asked and it was answered and you did not include Logan in that answer, Mr Witness. So, Mr Witness, let's move on. Now, you've testified that the Prosecution kept asking you about the RUF and Taylor's involvement in diamonds, correct?

  • And that also appears in paragraph 16 of your affidavit where you say:

    "I went into the next room where my statement was audio recorded and typed. There were about four people. They asked me questions on a number of issues relating to the RUF, including the command structure. They also asked me about the RUF and Taylor's involvement in diamonds."

    Sir, I'd like now to look at the actual interview, which is tab 6 of the Defence bundle. Mr Witness - and I'm going to, at the end, be moving to admit this into evidence. Mr Witness, this is a typed document of an interview that it says occurred on 18 November 2003 and it begins that it's Mr Dafae, I don't know if I pronounced that directly, D-A-F-A-E, who says he's in the room with Sam Koroma, Nancy and Roni. Sir, in this entire 173 pages there are many questions asked to you about people who are in detention at the Special Court; Augustine Gbao, Morris Kallon and Issa Sesay. Isn't that true?

  • Please repeat, sir.

  • During that interview they asked you a lot of questions about three people who were then detained by the Special Court; Augustine Gbao, Morris Kallon and Issa Sesay?

  • They asked me about the command structure and I explained to them.

  • Well, I put it to you, Mr Witness, and I'm going to give the citations for the record, that they asked you about Gbao 18 times: On page 16 at lines 13 and 19; page 34 lines 12 to 13; page 64 line 22; page 66 line 20; page 69 line 6; page 82 line 20; page 85 line 21; page 87 line 22 and 8; page 88 line 21 to 22; and then again on line 22; page 89 line 18; page 92 line 19; page 93 two times, 24 and 11; page 150 line 12; and page 108 line 12.

    I'm going to continue with Sesay and Kallon and to save time I'm not going to give the line numbers.

  • Well, you've put it to the witness and he hasn't answered whether he accepts that proposition or not.

  • They asked you many times, about 18 times, about Augustine Gbao. Isn't that correct?

  • Yes, I was asked but I'm saying they were in the command structure question that were asked.

  • Okay. They asked you many questions about the command structure of the RUF and trying to understand how the RUF was structured during the war and various times of the war, correct?

  • They asked you about Morris Kallon about 11 times. Isn't that true?

  • They asked me about Morris Kallon. I don't know the number they were asking me.

  • And they asked you about Issa Sesay 25 times approximately. Isn't that true?

  • I can't tell whether it was 25, but I was asked.

  • They asked you a lot of questions about Issa Sesay, correct?

  • I said yes, but the number you are calling, I don't know whether it was 25.

  • Well, Mr Witness, I put to you that they asked you zero questions about Charles Taylor. There's not a single question in here about Charles Taylor. So when you say they kept asking you about Charles Taylor, that's a lie, isn't it?

  • The question they asked me about diamonds to Liberia and to Sierra Leone, they were asking me. I did not explain anything. For the command structure I was asked to explain command structure of the RUF, but at certain stage I was only asked if I say I don't know this, they can't - they will stop, they will say, "No, say this." I said, "I cannot go beyond that because I am not aware. I carried diamond but not into Liberia." I tried to show how they went.

  • Well, sir --

  • Look, just before you go on, I'm having a lot of trouble understanding your answers, Mr Kolleh.

  • It was put to you that - no, no, listen to the question, please. I'm just looking at what you were asked.

  • It was put to you that in your interview you were not asked about Charles Taylor. So when you say they kept asking you about Charles Taylor, that's a lie, isn't it?

    Now, are you saying that they did not mention Charles Taylor but only diamonds, or what are you saying?

  • I was asked about Charles Taylor, sir. I was asked.

  • Mr Witness, I'm not going to read the 173 pages, but I'm sure Defence counsel has the opportunity on re-direct to point out any place in this interview where the name Charles Taylor is mentioned. It's not. When it comes to diamonds, Mr Witness, you mentioned about diamonds being taken from Gullit and Johnny Paul Koroma. You did tell them about that, correct?

  • Yes.

  • And then, and I believe it's page 157, if we could turn to that, please, and put that on the screen. This is an example of how helpful you were to the Defence - to the Prosecution. What you say, beginning on line 6:

    "A. The only people you referred to as people who have

    sensitive information were Rashid, Mohamed Tarawalli.

    These are people who know most about Foday Sankoh and who

    know where the war was planned. These are people who could

    tell you but, sorry, they are not alive.

    Q. Sure.

    A. Yeah, the two of them died and even Patrick Lamin

    himself died. That's - when Patrick Lamin died I went to

    Kailahun. He was one of the main man to Foday Sankoh."

    So, Mr Witness, you told the Prosecution of some people with knowledge of events and you told them, "Sorry, they're all dead." Is that right?

  • Yes.

  • That was the command structure system I was giving, sir.

  • And then we see on line 17 that the investigator said to you:

    "Q. Okay, is there anything else I haven't asked you that

    you would like to tell me?

    A. Yes, because when you people came the last time you

    tried to ask - your first question posed to me was


    Q. Yes.

    A. You forgot to ask me today.

    Q. Uh-huh."

    Then you begin to talk and you say:

    "A. During the AFRC period - sorry, from the beginning of

    RUF from '91 to '97 there was no mining. To be very frank

    with you, there was no mining business. But people like

    Fayia Musa, Deen-Jalloh, those people arrested during

    Mosquito time before Foday Sankoh could come from the

    Guinean border with the Guinean ambassador - sorry, with

    the Sierra Leone ambassador to Guinea during the time of

    the war whenever money was captured this money was given to

    Fayia Musa and others."

    So, Mr Witness, you weren't asked about diamonds and the only discussion about diamonds in the entire interview is when you say diamonds were taken from Gullit and Johnny Paul Koroma in the entire 173 pages. Isn't that true?

  • No, sir. The question they were asking me about diamonds from the RUF to Taylor and arms from Taylor to the RUF, they were only asking me that question. And when I said no, they would stop. They would not even write, neither type. Then after we stop there I was taken to the hotel. That was the time again I received Chris Bomford. But the next day I asked them, I said, "But you did not ask me about diamonds, the issue in Kailahun." Meaning that how I took it to the river, that was not their interest. They were only concerned how I was taking it to Liberia. That's what I asked in that question. I said, "Today you forget to ask me about diamonds the last time from the RUF towards the riverbank." And they did not even want to write that, but that was not their focus point. That's what I said. I told you - I think two days ago you asked the question on the same diamond issue, I told you that they were only typing. I was only asked a question. When they say this, if I say this they will stop. They say, "No, you say this." I say, "No, I can't pass there, sir, because I'm not aware."

  • Sir, since you were willing to lie to them about what you call your address, about not being captured in - that you lied to them about the fact that - saying that you were captured in Sierra Leone instead of Liberia, if they had have been asking you to lie, why didn't you, since you already were willing to lie?

  • I would not lie to them. That identical system. I would not lie to them because once I were traced by Chris Bomford, that's how he came to my house. He knew me, I was a transporter. He knew. That's how he traced me.

  • Sir, I just want to go through a few points on this interview quickly.

    Page 105, please. You were talking about the junta period and the period of the intervention. You said, beginning on line 25 and that's at the top of the page because of the way these pages are, the fifth line down:

    "A. But after Johnny Paul Koroma overthrown, within one or two weeks, attacks started going on from the CDF because the CDF and the army, they also had its place. So attacks started going on small small, small small until it developed. When it developed it was the time Mosquito went to Johnny Paul. What they arranged, Mosquito went back to Kailahun. The material he left there he began - he begin to use to attack. That's what I mean. So obviously we knew that maybe the government was out of ammunition, that's what I'm saying."

    Q. You mean the AFRC government?

    A. Yes."

    So it's the case, isn't it, that during the junta time the AFRC government, from your understanding, needed ammunition?

  • Yes.

  • Okay. Thank you. Let's go to page 129. And if we go to the very bottom of the page, the last four lines, you were being asked about Johnny Paul Koroma's living arrangements:

    "He was living, he could not do otherwise. If I come here, if you slap me, even if I make sore I just have to keep sitting with you. Because Johnny Paul could not go to Guinea and he could not go to Liberia because of fears."

    Sir, Guinea was an enemy of the junta, correct?

  • Yes.

  • Why was it that Johnny Paul Koroma could not go to Liberia because of fears?

  • I don't know, but his movement was restricted not to go to the two borderlines. He could go to Buedu. I don't know why he was restricted.

  • Let's go to page 135, please. And just beginning at the third line down. You were talking about Johnny Paul Koroma and in order to understand that, we might have to look at the page before, where we see on line 16, you said:

    "Whilst JPK was at Kailahun, not Kailahun Town itself but Kangama."

    So then going back to page 135, you said:

    "Before the convention when he used to go to Buedu, soldiers go and speak to him. He talk to his soldiers to collab - corroborate with the RUF, he said it."

    And then - is that true, Mr Witness, did you hear that Johnny Paul Koroma told his soldiers to work with, collaborate with the RUF?

  • Yes, sir. Soldiers that were with him in Kangama.

  • Uh-huh. And then one more, page 165, please. You're talking about Issa Sesay. Excuse me, 163. You're talking about Issa Sesay after Sam Bockarie left Sierra Leone. And beginning at line 2:

    "A. That was the thinking from Issa Sesay. So all the

    time, 'Tomorrow I will be coming to Kailahun. Tell the

    people I will come.' He don't come. 'I will be coming to

    Kailahun this week, we have to do this.' He don't come, it

    was not easy."

    And then skipping down some lines you said, you were eventually asked, line 13:

    "Q. When Bockarie was expelled he" - meaning Issa - "was

    not frequently visiting Kailahun."

    A. It was not easy. He only came on a few occasions maybe

    one, two, three hours."

    And then you explained:

    "A. Yes, sir. Then when he took over he transferred the

    headquarters to Makeni. So this more or less caused most

    of the people again to go against the RUF when he

    transferred the headquarters from Kailahun to Makeni.

    So when it came to politics the people of Kailahun were

    convinced to change from RUFP to SLPP."

    And then your next answer was:

    "A. That was one of the reasons because when he took over

    he moved to Makeni. He transferred the headquarters to

    Makeni, he was not frequently in Kailahun."

    Issa Sesay was afraid to go to Kailahun after Bockarie left. Correct?

  • I can't tell, sir. He was only promising to come. He would not come. I can't tell why he would not come, whether he was afraid. I can't tell, sir.

  • Well, I missed something. So let's go back to page 162. I started reading too late. And your answer began describing Bockarie, line 21.

    "A. Half Kissi, half Mende so obviously you just have to

    think. I think you have to agree with this. If Mosquito

    is a native of Kailahun and he happened to be forced to

    leave the movement then Issa Sesay takes over and he's a

    northerner so he will be afraid to go to Kailahun."

    So you told the Prosecution Issa Sesay was afraid to go to Kailahun, correct?

  • I told them that Issa, perhaps he was afraid to come to Kailahun. But he could not tell anybody why he was not coming to Kailahun. His absence from Kailahun caused the people to change to the SLPP; that's when I told the Prosecution.

  • Sir, you told us some things about Sam Bockarie's personality. He was very boastful, he was arrogant, and would you agree, he was revengeful, he would take revenge?

  • I did not tell you that Sam Bockarie was arrogant, I did not tell you that, sir.

  • Okay. How would you describe Sam Bockarie?

  • I told you, he was somebody who followed news, who liked bluffing, or more or less full of flamboyancy. I did not tell you about arrogant.

  • If Sam Bockarie came back after having been replaced from Issa Sesay, he was a threat to Issa Sesay's life. He would have been a threat to Issa Sesay's life, isn't that true?

  • I can't tell, sir whether he was --

  • Issa Sesay was a very careful person, afraid for his own safety, that's why he didn't go to Kailahun, isn't that true?

  • Come again.

  • Issa did not go to Kailahun because he was afraid for his own safety. You said that in this interview; isn't that true?

  • I did not talk about safety. I said Issa usually promise, he don't come to Kailahun. I said perhaps he was afraid. He transferred the headquarters to the north. He promised, he don't come. This is what I say, sir.

  • I'd like this, your Honour, Mr President, the interview of 18 November to be marked next for identification.

  • That interview is marked MFI-21.

  • Sir, I now want to ask you, and hopefully finish with my questions about this affidavit, about something in paragraph 22. I'm not going to read it because it contains the information that the Court has ordered to remain confidential. So he should not have it, please. I'm sorry. The witness can have it. He wrote the affidavit. The witness can have it.

    Sir, if we look at this, paragraph 22, you say at the end:

    "I even heard that" - someone, I'm not going to say the name - "got 10,000 dollars from testifying but I do not have personal knowledge of that".

    Now, Mr Witness, it's important not to say the name. But you said that name in a private session. So don't say the name out loud now. And in the private session you testified here in court that the witness told you they got the money. So which is true; the version you told in court where you say this witness volunteered to you, "I got paid this money," or what you say in the affidavit that you have no personal knowledge of it?

  • I did not see the money with her but that's what she told me.

  • Why didn't you put in the affidavit that the witness told you she got money? Instead it says, "but I do not have" - it says, "I even heard that the witness got money from testifying but I do not have personal knowledge of that". Why didn't you put in the affidavit or tell the Defence that the witness told you that?

  • She told me that that was given to her. I did not see the money perhaps. But she told me.

  • Your Honour, I'm finished with the affidavit but I would like this affidavit of - to be marked, I believe it's four pages, confidentially because of that paragraph 22.

  • That affidavit is marked MFI-22 and confidential.

  • Now, Mr Witness, I want to briefly go over a couple of other statements that you made. So the first time you talked to the Prosecution was on 9 October 2003, and that is in the Defence bundle. I believe it's tab 4. If that could be shown to the witness.

    First, sir, the name which is written at the top above the black line, Koroma, Sam Mustapha, and the date of birth in the first line, and the place of birth in the first line, all of those are false, correct?

  • I told you on Thursday, I say -

  • Sir, you can answer yes or no.

  • Yes, I told you on Thursday, yes, sir.

  • Thank you. Also in this affidavit you also lie about being captured in Sierra Leone and you do not tell them that you trained at Naama, correct?

  • Yes, sir.

  • Now, I want to go to that third full paragraph, the sentence four lines up, just above Alhaji Kromah a sentence above that the sentence begins "he" - meaning you - "could not go to Liberia because you had a Mandingo name - Mandingo-sounding name, Koroma". Sir, why was it that Mandingos were in danger in Liberia at that time? That was because of the NPFL, correct?

  • I told you the information I gave here was because of fear, that's why I changed my name and date of birth here, sir.

  • And did you pick a Mandingo name because it was clear that Mandingos would not be associated with Charles Taylor at that time? Is that why you picked a Mandingo name?

  • No, I changed my name there because of fear during the interview with the Prosecution.

  • Let's go to the third page. The top sentence. They did, of course, ask you about diamonds and arms in this interview, correct? The investigators asked you about your knowledge about diamonds and arms, correct?

  • And, sir, you said you were an investigator and an MP for a while, that's exactly what you would expect a competent law enforce the officer to do; to ask witnesses about their knowledge of important events, correct?

  • Please repeat, sir.

  • You would expect a competent investigator to ask a former RUF about their knowledge of arms and ammunition and about diamonds. Wouldn't you expect that, sir?

  • When I was investigator, you mean, please?

  • Based on your experience as an investigator, wouldn't you expect someone investigating the war in Sierra Leone to ask about diamonds?

  • Sir, Charles Taylor told a newspaper in France that the war in Sierra Leone was a war about diamonds. Doesn't it make sense to you, sir, to ask what was happening to the diamonds of Sierra Leone during the war?

  • I can't tell you about statement from Charles Taylor to the RUF about diamonds. What I know is what I'm telling you, sir.

  • And doesn't it make sense to you, sir, to ask where the arms and ammunition were coming from?

  • I don't know why they were asking me. For me, I was under fear and the question was being posed to me. I don't know why the question was asked, whether it was important to them or not.

  • Okay. And because you were under fear you gave this answer, that's at the top sentence:

    "Diamond trade and procurement of arms and ammunition was not disclosed in public. It was top military secret. Only top military commanders knew about these things."

    So you told them you knew nothing about diamonds and arms, correct?

  • Yes, during the course of the war we were fighting in the war, that's what I told them. When they asked me, I told them, I said diamond were a top secret. Even arms business, those are top secret. They were writing their statement. I did not actually know how they were framing it. But I made them to understand that diamonds, that something can be placed in your pocket, even in your mouth, you move with it, nobody can know. So those are top secret about diamonds. That's what I told them, sir.

  • May this three-page document, the interview, statement, date 9th October 2003, be marked next for identification.

  • That document is marked MFI-23.

  • Now, sir, let's look briefly at your second - the next interview with the Prosecution. I want to go down to the third paragraph where you said this:

    "The witness states that Sam Bockarie received a shipment of arms just prior to the junta coup by the AFRC. This was at Baiima, just prior to the BBC announcement."

    Sir, Baiima, B-A-I-I-M-A, is a town in Bo District, correct?

  • Please repeat that question, sir.

  • Sir, Baiima, spelled B-A-I-I-M-A, it's a town in Bo District, correct?

  • I don't know a town in Bo District called that. We are talking about Mosquito. Mosquito was not in Bo District, Mosquito was in Kailahun. Talking about Bo District, Baiima, I'm not aware, sir.

  • Do you know a Baima in Kono spelt with one I?

  • Sir, did you tell the Prosecution that at Baiima, just before the coup, that Sam Bockarie received a shipment of arms?

  • Yes, but I did not talk about Baiima in Bo or in Kono, no, sir.

  • Then you say:

    "The receipt of arms from Liberia was top secret. It was not easy to ascertain information about such shipments."

    Is that what you told them?

  • Yes, that was specifically asked during the course of the war, they were asking me. But that area was explained later. I told them the only arms received was from Liberia, from the ULIMO forces. They were asking me prior to that time. That was the time I told them it was not possible.

  • Let's go to the next sentence:

    "The witness states that the NPFL and the RUF had an extremely good relationship. It was an open programme under which Sam Bockarie regularly crossed the border to Liberia."

    That's true, isn't it?

  • The RUF and ULIMO, from the early stages at the borderline, we were friends. That's what I was trying to tell the Prosecution.

  • Well, the sentence says --

  • [Overlapping speakers] Sam Bockarie went to Liberia during days of ULIMO. But during the war Sam Bockarie cannot leave the front line and retreat while Foday Sankoh is in the midst of Kailahun Town itself. When Sam Bockarie is passing from the front line to go to Liberia. Commanders, you have to be at the front line. That is how our command structure was like, sir.

  • You still haven't answered the question.

  • I answered the question.

  • No, you didn't. Ask it again, Mr Koumjian.

  • Sir, I'm going to break it down sentence by sentence. Did you tell the Prosecution that the NPFL and the RUF had an extremely good relationship?

  • Did you tell them that it was an open programme under which Sam Bockarie regularly crossed the border to Liberia?

  • That statement did not join together when remember I told them that crossing to Liberia was not a secret. The relation between the RUF and the NPFL at the borderline was not a secret. That's what I was trying to say.

  • Look, will you answer the question, please, Mr Witness. Did you tell them that or not?

  • I said it. I said there was relation between the NPFL and the RUF. I said it, sir.

  • Did you tell them in your statement that: "It was an open programme under which Sam Bockarie regularly crossed the border to Liberia"?

  • That is the statement I have problem with.

  • What problem are you having?

  • That combined statement there.

  • Just that sentence I asked you now, did you tell the interview people that or not?

  • I told them. I told them, sir.

  • Let's go to page 2. I'm trying to move quickly. Mr Kolleh, the end of the first paragraph there, the last sentence says that you add that most of the Anti-Terrorist Unit by Charles Taylor was comprised of Sierra Leoneans. You told them that, correct?

  • They asked me question. Yes, I told them.

  • Although you denied knowing that most of the ATU was Sierra Leonean in your testimony here?

  • Yes, I said it. The question was asked in this way: Are there Sierra Leone in the Liberian forces? And I said before this time 1985 there was a crossover and Sierra Leonean in Liberia they are in numbers. So they could easily join the national force. From Vahun you have the Mende tribe. I'm saying I'm a Mende, I can join the force. I said it. But we were not specifically talking about Mosquito crossing to Liberia and the RUF that crossed they were so close in the ATU, sir. That was not what I was trying to say.

  • May this document, the interview of 5 November comprising three pages, be marked next for identification.

  • That document is marked MFI-24.

  • Now, sir, I'd like another document distributed - two documents, please. Before we leave the last document, MFI-24, could the witness be shown that for a moment. Sir, on page 2, the third paragraph up - on page 2 the third paragraph begins:

    "Witness adds that SAJ Musa was power hungry and did not show respect to Johnny Paul Koroma."

    Is that true?

  • Yes, sir.

  • So I want to go back for a moment and ask you a little bit about Gullit. If we could have P-134 shown, please. Sir, P-134, the title is "Minutes of the family reunion aimed at reconciling chairman Foday Saybana Sankoh and chairman Johnny Paul Koroma, held at the office of the Deputy Minister of Labour, Social Security and Industrial Relations, New England, on 7 April 2000". There's a list of attendees and I want to go through them quickly with you. Number 1, Idrissa Hamid Kamara, an honourable. That's Leather Boot, correct?

  • Come again.

  • That is Leather Boot, number 1, Idrissa Hamid Kamara, correct?

  • I never knew his actual name. I knew Leather Boot, sir.

  • And was Leather Boot an honourable?

  • Number 3, Shiekh Ibrahim Fofana, did you know him?

  • Did you hear of the killing of Shiekh Ibrahim Fofana when Issa Sesay was going to Liberia?

  • Okay, sir. In the interests of time, let me just go to page 8210. And I want to read a bit from the contribution of Brigadier General TAB Yaya:

    "Brigadier General Yaya, the next speaker as designated by the chairman, first and foremost availed himself of the opportunity to commend the initiator and promoters of the meeting and thanked all present for making it a point of duty to attend the meeting he felt was long overdue. He expressed his personal delight and satisfaction for the holding of such a meeting, aimed at bringing us back under the same umbrella as we solemnly and unanimously agreed to do so in 1997. He recalled that when the marriage took place in 1997 between the two bodies we worked together without any serious problem under the chairmanship of the former AFRC chairman Lieutenant Johnny Paul Koroma. He said things continued going fine even while in the jungle, but confessed that he was shocked when he returned to Freetown in November to observe that the demon of strife has won the hearts of once united people to achieve a noble cause. He re-echoed the adage 'unity is strength'."

    And, again, this is dated April 2000. Sir, unlike SAJ Musa who you said did not respect Johnny Paul Koroma, Gullit - TAB, Alex Tamba Brima - he did respect Johnny Paul Koroma. Isn't that true?

  • I can't tell, sir.

  • Well, if we look at the next page, the first full sentence --

  • I couldn't find that last page you referred to, 8210. Where is the numbering?

  • It's the ERN number on the top, of mine on the top right.

  • Your Honour, it's also on mine in the exhibit.

  • On the top right, a black stamped ERN number. There may be some confusion because we had two copies of this document. One was more legible but incomplete and the other was complete but not as legible. But this should be P-134.

  • Yes, I probably got a different copy.

  • Apparently you did. There's A and B. This is 134A.

  • Mine starts with an ERN number 0009974.

  • That's my error. I should have said P-134A. Would your Honour like me to go back to that?

  • No, I've got P-134A, that's the one you were reading from?

  • All right. No, you continue on, Mr Koumjian.

  • Going to the next page, 8211, I just want to read the first sentence, full sentence:

    "General Yaya underscored the fact that chairman Sankoh and chairman Lieutenant Colonel Johnny Paul Koroma must be looked upon as our father and our elder brother respectively. A father can wrong a younger brother and vice versa. Brigadier Yaya fine but it's left to us, their commanders and close collaborators, to remedy the situation."

    So Gullit worked with the RUF much more than SAJ Musa and saw the advantages of unity, isn't that correct, Mr Witness?

  • Please repeat your question, sir.

  • Gullit was much easier to work with for the RUF than SAJ Musa, correct?

  • I don't know. The time I saw Gullit was the time Gullit came to me to complain. I did not actually know his strong association with the AFRC before going to town, sir. I couldn't.

  • Some other documents should have been distributed from the Sierra Leone TRC. And the first one should have, that I want shown to the witness, is entitled "Witness to Truth, Volume 3B, report of the Sierra Leone Truth and Reconciliation Commission".

  • And, sir, there are several cover pages, I'm just showing you one. If we could go to page 3643, the first page of text. And paragraph 88 and 89. We see that the paragraph - we see that the heading above paragraph 88 is: "Perpetrators who refuse to acknowledge responsibility" and the paragraph the first sentence of paragraph 88 says: "While the above examples clearly show the willingness of some perpetrators to acknowledge their actions during their - during the conflict and seek forgiveness from their communities, there were many others who were not so willing to acknowledge their wrongdoing."

    And then skipping to the next paragraph which is headed "hearing in Kailahun District 14 May 2003. The next example is drawn from a closed hearing in Kailahun on 14 May 2003. Mustapha Sam Koroma was with the RUF vanguards Kailahun District. He was a security commander, although he claimed he did not make any decisions while in command. He also claimed he never went to the war front, which he subsequently contradicted. Due to the significance of the role he seemed to have played with the RUF in Kailahun, he was not welcome in the area." And that's all I want to read from this.

    Mr Witness, you testified in a closed hearing, on 14 May 2003, in Kailahun, correct?

  • Yes, sir.

  • And you used the name Mustapha Sam Koroma, correct?

  • Now, if we could then go to your testimony, which is the next document, appendix 3, transcripts of TRC public hearings. First, perhaps, I should mark the document I just referred to, volume 3B, page 463. If that could be marked for identification, just the cover page and page 463.

  • Can I suggest that we wait until we've looked at the two together, because they do seem to fit together and they could then be A and B.

  • Witness, this is going to take us beyond the break, I'm afraid, but we'll begin.

  • Well is there enough that you can ask before the break or do you want to commence after the break?

  • I think I can commence after the break. It would make more sense.

  • Okay. We'll take the morning break and we'll resume at 11.30.

  • [Break taken at 10.59 a.m.]

  • [Upon resuming at 11.32 a.m.]

  • Go ahead, Mr Koumjian.

  • Yes, if the witness could be shown the appendix 3 transcripts of TRC public hearings.

  • While that's being brought to you, Mr Witness, you told us that you are studying at the university now. How do you support yourself?

  • I support myself at the university.

  • Yes, sir, the question is how do you do that? Are you employed?

  • I do it by myself. I don't understand what you mean by how you do it. I support myself.

  • Where does your money come from?

  • Sometime it come from my brothers, sometime it come from myself. I have to sell other small small items in Monrovia before I pay my school fees.

  • So can you briefly tell us how you make money?

  • Before I run a motorcycle as a transport to transport people around and then I generate money. I pay my school fees when I come from school. If I have three classes in the week I have to schedule myself. When I come from school if there is no time, if I have class only Tuesday and Thursday I go around Monday, Wednesday and Friday to transport people over motorcycle.

  • Okay, I'm going to move on. Sir, I'm now going to go over the testimony that you gave on 14 May 2003 to the Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Sierra Leone in Kailahun. If you look at page 262 of this appendix of transcripts of testimony, it indicates right below the name Mustapha Sam Koroma and the name of the presiding commissioner and then the bishop and then the leader of evidence, it says:

    "My name is Mustapha Sam Koroma, the witness swore on the Bible. The oath was administered by commissioner Professor Kamara."

    Did you swear on the Bible before you testified before the TRC, sir?

  • I don't remember swearing on Bible to the TRC. That was behind closed doors when I was taken inside. I don't actually recall that time. There was - there was kind of a fear and then I was taken behind close doors, so I don't remember.

  • You keep mentioning that you were taken behind closed doors. How does that affect you remembering whether or not you were sworn on the Bible? Does that affect that in some way?

  • I am forgetting, sir, because I did not talk publicly. I was taken behind closed doors, sir. I am actually forgetting in between there.

  • And what is the fear you're talking about?

  • I was a bit confused. They did not allow me to talk publicly. I was taken into another room to talk to the people where the door was closed and only few people went in there with me, sir.

  • But what were you afraid of?

  • I said the way in which, because the public hearing was held publicly but I, for me, I did not talk publicly. I taken into another room on an extra day after the public hearing. This is what I'm saying. I did not confess or I did not say anything publicly when the general programme was held. I was just scheduled on another day extra and I was taken into another room to talk to, but when the public hearing was going on I was not allowed to talk there, I don't know why.

  • Well, how did that make you afraid?

  • That's what I say. I don't know why they did not allow me to talk publicly. I was taken into another room to talk. It was an extra day. That was not even a day of public hearing. The TRC took me to another room to talk to me. If you follow up the story of the TRC, I did not talk publicly.

  • Mr Witness, it was your choice to speak in a closed session rather than publicly. Isn't that true?

  • It was not my choice.

  • You're saying you wanted to - you're telling these judges that you wanted to testify publicly but the Truth and Reconciliation Commission insisted that you testify behind closed doors?

  • No, sir, that's not what I'm say trying to say. I'm saying I don't know why I was not allowed to testify publicly.

  • Who told you you were not allowed to testify publicly?

  • I said I don't know why I was not allowed. They only scheduled me on the extra day. That's what I'm saying. I was scheduled on another day. That was not the day of public hearing. The commissions, the people that were spearheading the programme in Kailahun.

  • You've told us previously that you did not contact the commission, they contacted you and you were summoned to the testimony. Correct?

  • That's not the commission. The person who was spearheading the TRC in Kailahun was quite different from those who were the commissioners. The commissioners that I knew were Bishop Humper and in the public hearing hall, we attended Bishop Humper, a certain Jalloh and one Nigerian fellow. Those are the three people I remember as commissioners on the TRC.

  • Okay, sir, my question is you did not go to the TRC. The TRC summoned you, someone came to your house and told you they wanted to speak to you, correct?

  • Let's go through what it says after indicating that you were sworn on the Bible. The testimony begins - I'm not going to read it all, it's about 8 pages so I'm going to skip to different parts and if Defence counsel wants to cover other parts he can in re-direct. It begins:

    "At one time in Monrovia, my father called me and told that the names Koroma and Kanneh were the names the Liberians didn't want to hear. If you were in Liberia and you carried any of those names, you would be killed."

    You told that to the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, correct?

  • I can't remember saying this. I remember they asked me about my stepfather name Koroma, whether it's a Mandingo or a Mende. I said it's a Mende and that's what I told them. I don't remember saying whether you are like this you would be chased and killed. I don't remember saying that, sir.

  • You don't remember whether or not you said it. Is that correct?

  • And then going down a few lines, I'll just begin reading from the middle of the fifth line:

    "I went very close to the border. We could not go back to Liberia because of our name. We remained within that area until one Thursday morning when there was an attack and we were captured by one Tunkara."

    This of course is the story that you told the TRC, you told them this, correct?

  • Yes, I told you earlier.

  • And this is not true, correct?

  • This is not true. I told you earlier I changed my name and my date of birth because of fear. This is my fourth time answering this question to you.

  • And you were not captured by Tonkara. You were captured by Arthur, an NPFL soldier, correct?

  • Sir, going down the page, you talk about in six lines up you say at one time my own assignment was a jungler. What is a jungler?

  • That English is not correct over there. My assignment was jungle. I said jungler, so these are some of the things I'm saying about the statement put forward there that I am not aware of some. I said jungler, meaning that I was a transporter. I moved from Kailahun to the Zogoda. From the Zogoda to Kailahun. That's what I told them, sir.

  • And then after you gave your statement you were asked some questions, which begins on page 263. The Bishop began by thanking you and explaining that we want to know the truth and then questions began. And the Bishop asked you which of the groups you belonged to. He asked you which groups existed and you said Special Forces, vanguards and junior commanders. And then he asked which group you belonged to and you said vanguards. And then the Bishop asked were you involved in fighting, looting, killing or destroying properties in any way? And you answered: "I never went to the warfront. I took up an assignment. 28 lives were killed among themselves."

    Mr Witness, that's not true that you never went to the warfront, is it?

  • Bishop Humper was asking me in a closed door session between '91 and before 1996. That's what I told him, I said no, I was not a front line soldier in between that time.

  • Well, you contradict that in the next sentence, the next question. And then the Bishop asked you: "Mustapha, did you ever go to the warfront?" And you said: "My first time of going to the front line was when Zogoda was dissolved."

    So you did go to the warfront when Zogoda was dissolved, correct?

  • Yes, I told you the last time that when we retreated to the borderline and our headquarter Giema was attacked, we all went to the front line that time. That was the day that the AFRC announced that SLPP has been overthrown and we should go to town. So I told you beginning of the war prior to 1996, that was the time I was speaking and that's what I'm saying, sir.

  • When was Zogoda dissolved, according to you?

  • Zogoda was dissolved 1996 and that was not the front line time now for me. We retreated to Pujehun District where Mike Lamin and others had already crossed. I took the jungle again to Kailahun. This is what I was saying, sir. I was not fighting. I was retreating.

  • So you did go to the front line after 1996, correct, or in 1996, correct?

  • At Giema, we all went at Giema when the enemy forces attacked.

  • You're saying when you invaded Sierra Leone in 1991 you never were at the front line. Is that your testimony?

  • Yes, sir, I was assigned at Gofor as an MP commander, military police?

  • And then the Bishop asked:

    "Mustapha, did you ever go to the warfront?" And you said: "My first time of going to the warfront was when Zogoda was dissolved. I was injured and admitted for nine months." You were then asked:

    "Can you tell us some of the atrocities your people committed?" And then you said:

    "From the time I came here in '94 even the information they gave you yesterday, I came here after that time."

    Sir, I don't understand how that answers the question about atrocities that you were asked. Did you answer the question about atrocities that you knew of that were committed by the RUF?

  • No, sir. He was asking me about my personal participation in the war, if I ever committed atrocity. I said no, on no occasion. That's what I told him, I am in Kailahun here and I remain here, you came and saw me. If I knew I was wrong, I told him I was going to change my location either to go to Freetown or go to Makeni. But I told him I was pleased with myself within the people of Kailahun, that's why I stayed there, sir.

  • The chairman Bishop Humper then asked you:

    "Let me help you. Was your group involved in killing?"

    And you answered:

    "For as long as you fight in the front line you will always kill."

    Mr Kolleh, why didn't you tell the Bishop about the killings you knew of, such as Luawa Giehun, the involvement of Mosquito, Sesay and Mohamed Tarawalli in those killings?

  • He was asking me about my personal participation, sir. That's what I answered. He did not ask me about Giehun and what have you. He did not ask me about that. He asked me my personal participation. That's why I told him, no.

  • Sir, what's written here in the transcript is the question was:

    "Was your group involved in killing?"

    Now, do you understand that question to mean was your group involved to mean your personal participation only?

  • Yes, I understood it because I was the MP, my group as military police, I said no. That was what he was stretching at to me. My personal participation.

  • Well you answered on the next page:

    "For as long as you fight on the front line you will always kill." So were you answering then, since you understood the question to be your personal participation, were you answering about your personal participation?

  • No, sir, this time round he was asking me he said what about the front line, I said at the front line once you fight there you might kill because you fire, bullet might hole somebody by mistake or the bullet my hole somebody in the cross fire. I said at the front line it's obvious these things can happen.

  • So now you understand the question to not be your participation when you answer you will always kill. That's - you're not talking about yourself?

  • He asked me what about at front line, those who fight there. I was just trying to answer that question to him. Asking me what about those who fight at front line. I say it might happen.

  • Let's go down to the questions of Professor Kamara. He asked in the beginning:

    "You were in Liberia and my guess is that you are Liberian, am I correct?" You said: "No, sir." You did lie to the Commission and tell them you were not Liberian, correct?

  • I told you earlier, yes.

  • And then the professor asked:

    "You said people with the names Koroma and Konneh would be killed in Liberia" and you said, "Yes", correct?

  • I don't remember saying that to the TRC.

  • Well, were people with the names Koroma and Konneh killed in Liberia?

  • I'm not aware of that.

  • In fact, Mr Witness, you know because you were a Liberian, you were there during the war the NPFL was killing Mandingos and people with those names, correct?

  • No, sir I told you from campus to base to Sierra Leone.

  • Well, you told us from the campus you went to Bong County to Gbarnga and you were captured by an NPFL soldier and you were with him for one to two months. Did you forget that?

  • Yes, but not in Gbarnga Town. Yes, sir.

  • Now, do you remember that I asked you about atrocities committed in Operation Stop Election?

  • On page 265, going down to the third question from Commissioner Kamara, he asks you about atrocities. That means you had to commit atrocities. And you answered:

    "During that period, especially in 1996, when the peace before election failed a lot of atrocities were committed by rebels and soldiers."

    And that's true, isn't it?

  • I don't remember saying that, sir. All questions that I was asked about my personal participation when I was taken behind closed door, I don't remember saying atrocities were created by RUF. No, I don't remember saying this.

  • Sir, are you saying that this is recorded incorrectly. That you did not say that you knew about atrocities?

  • No, sir. That mission you talk about, election fail, no.

  • Are you saying you don't remember what you said because it was behind closed doors or are you saying you are sure --

  • I don't remember saying this, sir.

  • Well, let's look for a second at what you said on 4 November at page 48758. You were asked about the ninth line:

    "Q. Mr Witness, didn't you know that atrocities were

    committed by rebels and by army during operation stop -

    during the elections?

    A. I didn't know, sir. I was under treatment."

    So what's recorded that you told the Court here is that you didn't know anything about atrocities but what's recorded you told the TRC is that you did know about atrocities during the election.

  • I did not.

  • Mr Koumjian, I find that answer somewhat ambiguous.

    When you say, "I did not", do you mean you did not tell the TRC that or you did not tell the Court that? What do you mean?

  • It's the TRC he's asking me. That's what I said no. He asked me about the TRC, I said no, I never.

  • So are you saying somebody from the TRC made up all of this stuff and just put it in a statement with your name on it?

  • Yes, here he is asking me about the information here, I said I was in the hospital. He is not actually specific about the year. Then on the other side from the TRC he's asking me whether I did mention that, I said no. On the other document he asking me that I was in the hospital and this is 2008 I was in the hospital. Then this is 2003 document he's reading again, he's combining whole thing to me. That's why even yesterday I told him he should be specific when he's addressing the question, sir.

  • Once again, I don't understand what you're saying but we'll move on.

    Go ahead, Mr Koumjian.

  • Mr Witness, I want to ask you about what's recorded about an answer you give further down the page. And that was the one second from the bottom answer and begins: "It was a movement we all belonged to." They were asking you about the misunderstanding between Mosquito and Sam Bockarie - excuse me, Mosquito and Foday Sankoh. And you said:

    "It started from gossip to the leader. When Sankoh was away he told Mosquito he should put his feet in his shoes. When Sankoh came back, the people complained to him that Mosquito harassed them a lot. Sankoh called Mosquito and told him that he was not coming to Kailahun again. He told Mosquito that he should go to Liberia to go and train, but Mosquito refused and alleged that Sankoh wanted to kill him."

    Did you tell the TRC that Sankoh told Sam Bockarie that he should go to Liberia to train?

  • No, during the confusion between Sankoh and Bockarie and Mosquito, no, that was not said by Sankoh. That time was just a confusion continuously, sir.

  • So, again, sir, you have this, I hope, this page in front of you. You're saying that the transcript that the TRC published, that they made up what you said, what's recorded here? Is that what you're saying?

  • This is not what I said, sir. During the confusion of Mosquito and Sankoh there was no statement from Sankoh, "Go and train." No. That was not said by me.

  • Let's go a few more pages to page 267. In the middle of the page there's a question from the leader of the evidence, just above the middle, where he says: "While in Liberia Sierra Leoneans were arrested by Charles Taylor. Sankoh convinced Charles Taylor to release those people. Do you know about that?"

  • I'm not aware of that. I told you earlier. I'm not aware of that.

  • Sir, the answer you gave the TRC was: "Other people gave us the message that those people were dead."

  • First of all, did you tell the TRC that?

  • No. I again say no, sir.

  • And, sir, you were a vanguard in Naama you told us for about five months, correct?

  • And, sir, didn't you know that Jonathan Kposowa, Morris Kallon, Prince Taylor, Philip Palmer, and others were arrested by the NPFL and released and that's how they got to Camp Naama, that Sankoh brought them from NPFL jails?

  • I'm not aware, sir. No, sir.

  • You never heard that?

  • Let's go to the next page. You were being asked about Rashid Mansaray's killing. And I'm just going to read from the first full sentence of your answer at the top of page 268. "Rashid had told the commander at Daru that by 8 o'clock he should use of the light to talk to his men, but he should not use it too much. No sooner had the men left than they launched the attack and the body of Rashid was torn into pieces."

    Did you tell the Commission that the body of Rashid Mansaray was torn into pieces?

  • No, sir. I carried Mosquito - sorry, Rashid, hand him over to Issa and Mosquito took Rashid from Issa. That's what I said earlier.

  • That is what you said in the testimony. And then were you there, sir, when the trial took place of Rashid?

  • No, once Mosquito took him I left, I went back to Sankoh. I was not there when the trial started or the trial continued. I was there when he took Rashid from Issa. That's what I told you earlier.

  • The next question from the leader of the evidence to you at the TRC 2003 was: "Were you there when the trial of Rashid took place."

    You answered: "Yes, sir."

    And then you said:

    "I never saw the people who killed Rashid. Sankoh said they should carry the man to the front line."

    And then you were asked, "Which front line was Rashid sent to?"

    You said to Mano, Sierra Leone highway. And then you were asked was he sent to a front line headed by Mosquito and you said yes. Is that recorded correctly? Is that what you told the TRC?

  • It's not correct here. Even the area they spell here is also wrong, so to tell you that the information I don't know about some, there's no Mano on the highway I told you earlier it was Kpandebu that I carried Rashid to Issa and Mosquito took Rashid from Issa. There is no Mano. So to tell you that there are mistakes on this document.

  • Sir, when you went through the TRC after the closed hearing you actually went through a public ceremony where kola nuts were broken and basically the community was forgiving you. Is that correct?

  • Yes, we were told to talk with the public for our wrongdoing and then I said for my being in the RUF, I say today I bow down to the public to ask them for clemency and then I went down, the chief put their hands on my back and he told me you can be with us here as long as you wish. From today we can be here.

  • Because the idea, sir, of the TRC was that to bring people back together that those who had done wrong would admit it to the community and that there could be forgiveness for those who had done wrong, correct?

  • Yes, but in my case it was never like that, sir. From the beginning of the TRC to the end nobody ever mentioned my name. I sat there until everything went on.

  • Sir, did you admit to any atrocities, being involved in any atrocities, any crimes, before the TRC?

  • Did you ever tell the community about the crimes of the RUF that you were sorry about?

  • No, the problem was we should beg the community for our wrongdoing. Whether in the RUF, or you committed or you did not commit, but for the fight that you are RUF you have to apologise to the civilians who died, if you want to stay in Kailahun you can be forgiven and that's the process we all went through, not only I alone.

  • Sir, did you tell, Mr Kolleh, the TRC, or the people in the community in Sierra Leone the truth? That you came with the war from Liberia, that it was from Liberia that you were trained, that the RUF were recruited in Liberia and you brought the war to them from Liberia?

  • At that point, no, sir.

  • Did you tell them who was sending you the ammunition and war materials that you needed all those years to carry out your fighting, including all the fighting in 1998, late 1998 to early '99, the taking of Kono, Makeni, Waterloo, all the way down to the Freetown peninsula? Did you tell them about that?

  • You are combining your question, sir. Please repeat. In the beginning of the war to a certain stage and from there again to another stage, you are combining the information. How do you expect me to answer, sir?

  • Okay, let me break it down for you, sir. Did you tell them who promoted the war?

  • Sir, I'd like to show you a clip of testimony before I ask you final questions about your TRC testimony.

  • And that would be testimony that this Court heard, it's very short, from 1 October 2008. This is the testimony of a man named Patrick Sheriff.

  • [Video clip played to the Court]

  • There should be a translation.

  • The war in Sierra Leone was promoted by the man who set up Camp Naama, the man who brought the recruits to train there, who armed them and sent them to inflict the bitterness of war on Sierra Leone. The man who sent you ammunition during critical times, and particularly in 1998 before the offensive that led to the taking of Kono, Makeni and Freetown. You know who that man was and it was Charles Taylor. Isn't that true?

  • No, sir.

  • Sir, Mr Sheriff said that God will bring judgment on those that promoted the war. Let's read what you said about the war. Page 269. You said: "I'm appealing to the commission. The war was not made by human beings. It was made by God." Mr Kolleh, it was human beings that killed Sierra Leoneans in the war. Isn't that true?

  • It was human being that fought the war, sir.

  • It was human beings that took children and separated them from their parents, it was RUF leaders that did that. Isn't that true?

  • Yes, it was RUF.

  • And it was the RUF that cut the heads off victims and put them on sticks, that took young girls as bush wives, that burned houses with people inside them alive. All that was done by human beings. Isn't that true?

  • I am not aware of those crime you are talking about, sir, please.

  • And, sir, it was a human being, Charles Taylor, that made all of that possible. Isn't that true?

  • No, sir.

  • Thank you. I have no further questions. I would ask that the transcript of the TRC as requested by Mr Munyard, we have two documents. I believe the first, the shorter one, TRC volume 3B be marked next in order and then the appendix 3 with the transcript of Mr Mustapha Sam Koroma's testimony be marked B, the same MFI number.

  • Yes, those two documents will be marked respectively MFI-25A and 25B.

    Thank you, Mr Koumjian. Mr Munyard, do you have some questions in re-examination?

  • I do, thank you, Mr President.

  • Mr Kolleh, dealing with one aspect of this document you've just been shown I wonder if MFI-25B is still on the desk, I can't tell from here. If it could just be shown to the witness. I simply want to clarify something about this document. He may be able to help us. Mr Kolleh, do you see that document in front of you, it's headed appendix 3 transcripts of TRC public hearings. Do you see that?

  • Yes, sir.

  • And then it says below that:

    "This appendix transcripts of TRC public hearings held in Freetown and the district headquarter towns."

    And then if you turn it over, the first page behind it is number 262, do you have that?

  • And does it say, "Closed hearings held on 14 May 2003 in Kailahun"? At the very top of that page?

  • Yes, yes, yes.

  • Yes, sir, on the heading I have seen it.

  • Very well. Did you give evidence in a public hearing or in a closed hearing?

  • I gave evidence in a closed hearing.

  • Thank you very much. I'm not sure therefore, Mr President, whether this is the right front cover. That's simply why I raised that. It may be that my learned friend can clarify that later. I don't want hold the proceedings up but it did strike me as rather odd that we've got two contradictory headings on the first and the second page. I'll move on and that can be investigated hopefully in the next little while by those opposite.

    Now some time ago you were asked a question by Mr Koumjian for the Prosecution if you could remember ever having killed anyone and I want you to consider that question again. Mr Kolleh, have you yourself ever killed anyone?

  • I said I don't remember that. If I was directly involved in killing somebody, I don't remember that. I have never.

  • In what circumstances - were there any circumstances in which you were involved in the course of which people were killed?

  • Yes, when I served as investigation for the military police, yes, killing took place in Giehun.

  • I may have asked a question that wasn't altogether clear. You've told us recently today that there was an occasion when you were at the front line. Is that right?

  • Come again?

  • You've told us this very morning that there was an occasion when you were at the front line, the battlefront?

  • I'm not still getting you, sir.

  • A little while ago when you were being asked questions by counsel for the Prosecution you said that there did come a time when you were at the battlefront and I think it was after the fall of Zogoda that you explained?

  • Yes, sir, I said Giema.

  • All right. Were you involved in fighting at that time in which people were killed?

  • No, sir.

  • All right. Very well.

  • Once the attack was repelled and we were called to town.

  • Could you please be shown MFI-6 I think it is. Yes, MFI-6. Before you look at it I'm going to ask you a preliminary question. You mentioned in your evidence this morning, you talked about an NGO or NGOs. What do you mean by an NGO?

  • They were non-governmental organisations that worked during UNAMSIL.

  • Have you heard of an NGO that calls itself Global Witness?

  • Have a look, please, at MFI-6. The front page, it's a document headed: "Briefing document: Liberia's logs of war: Underpinning conflict" and it's a press release dated 3 May 2002. Now, we have just seen an extract from your evidence to the Truth and Reconciliation Commission closed hearing on 14 May 2003, that's a year after this press release. I'm going to ask you, please, to look at page 6 of MFI-6, the paragraph that we saw in your cross-examination. Now, do you see three paragraphs down there's a sentence that starts, "A Liberian by the name of Sam Kolleh, a close associate of President Charles Taylor, is now in Sierra Leone and has changed his same to Sam Koroma to appear Sierra Leonean." Do you see that?

  • I am seeing it, sir.

  • Now, do you accept that you are a Liberian by the name of Sam Kolleh who has changed his name, certainly in 2002, 2003, to Sam Koroma?

  • Thank you. Were you ever at any time a close associate of President Charles Taylor?

  • Have you ever met President Charles Taylor?

  • No way in my life, please.

  • Have you ever spoken to President Charles Taylor?

  • Have you ever worked for any agency of the government of President Charles Taylor?

  • But you accept that an NGO called Global Witness, as far back as 2002, knew that you, Sam Kolleh, were using the name Sam Koroma?

  • I am not aware of that information, sir.

  • Well, let me ask the question in a slightly different way. You've already agreed that you are Sam Kolleh and that back in 2002 and 2003 you were using the name Sam Koroma, yes?

  • And so do you agree that, at least in terms of the names that were being used, this NGO has correctly identified you as Sam Kolleh going by the name of Sam Koroma in 2002?

  • I did not know any NGO by that name.

  • No, I'm not asking you about the NGO as such, but do you agree that this NGO has correctly identified you as Sam Kolleh using the name Sam Koroma?

  • Yes, sir.

  • Right. So this little organisation knew that you, Sam Kolleh, in 2002 was using the name Sam Koroma, yes?

  • I can't tell. I didn't know about the NGO. I can't tell whether they knew that name - they knew that name, Sam Kolleh. I can't tell, sir, but they called me by that name.

  • By what name did Eric Quor Senesie know you in 2002?

  • Usually he call me CO Sam, CO Sam, that was how they used to call me, but he knew my full name Sam Kolleh.

  • He knew your full name, Sam Kolleh?

  • Yes, sir, he knew my name.

  • How long had he known you by 2002?

  • Eric Quor Senesie knew me since the war, especially --

  • Since when? Since what period of the war?

  • This was 1995/6, starting from '95 through until disarmament, sir, I started to know Eric Quor Senesie.

  • Right. So he knew you as Sam Kolleh?

  • Did he know that you had changed your name by - certainly by 2003 when you told us he brought a Special Court investigator to your house?

  • I don't know if he had taken notice of the changing of my name, but he brought somebody to my house.

  • So a little NGO knows that Sam Kolleh is Sam Koroma in 2002, your colleague from the RUF, going back as far as 1995/'96 know whose you are, Sam Kolleh, and where to find you in Kailahun in 2003, yes?

  • And by what name did the man that Eric Quor Senesie brought to your house first call you, this is the man from the Special Court, Chris Bomford?

  • Sam. He knew the Sam Kolleh name. That is how he was directed to my house.

  • No, by what name did he call you when he first spoke to you?

  • When he entered my house he said, "Oh, Sam Kolleh, how is it?"

  • Yes, thank you. Just for the avoidance of doubt, can I ask one further question. We don't need the document any longer, thank you. I now can't remember what you told us about that name, but why was it you chose the name Sam Koroma, Sam Mustapha Koroma?

  • I told you, because of fear I have to change my name.

  • Yes, why did you choose the particular name Sam Mustapha Koroma?

  • The name Sam Mustapha Koroma, why I chose the name?

  • Yes, that was the question. Can you now answer it?

  • It's the name of my stepfather.

  • Yes, and what nationality was your stepfather?

  • A Sierra Leonean.

  • Thank you. Now, I want to take you, please, to the affidavit that you swore this year, MFI-22.

  • Just a reminder that there is some - marked confidential.

  • Thank you. I won't have it on the screen, I'll just have it given to the witness.

  • Mr Kolleh, you're going to be given a paper copy and will you look at the paper copy, please. Now, before I ask you anything about the detail of what's in the affidavit, I want you to tell the judges how this came about that you signed this affidavit. First of all, it is dated, we know, 23 September 2010, just over a month ago. About six or seven weeks ago. Who did you see before this affidavit was signed by you?

  • I saw Logan.

  • Anybody else with Logan?

  • Gus, John Gray, Silas.

  • Right. And when you saw Logan, Silas, Gus and John Gray, did they - did any of them ask you any questions about what had happened when you'd had dealings with people from the Special Court?

  • Yes, they asked me if I ever gave a statement to the Special Court. I said yes.

  • Who asked you that?

  • Was anybody writing down your answers?

  • Yes, he himself wrote down.

  • And when I say write down, I mean either by hand on a piece of paper or type on to a computer.

  • Yeah, Logan was typing.

  • Logan was typing and what was Silas doing?

  • He was talking to me, at the same time writing with his hand.

  • Right. So he was writing notes, Logan was typing?

  • And can you remember now how long that process went on for?

  • No. You mean for that day?

  • We were there for hour or so.

  • For an hour or so, all right.

  • Mr Munyard, it sounded a bit like to me like four hour or so. It wasn't at all clear.

  • For. F-O-R, for.

  • It's an ambiguous word and I understand, thank you, your Honour.

  • For an hour or so, and what happened at the end of that hour or so?

  • At the end of that hour or so, were you given anything to look at? Was anything either handed to you to read or were you asked to look at any document and read over it?

  • No, not at that time.

  • Did that happen at any other time?

  • Yes, another time it happened.

  • Right, well tell us what happened.

  • The document was brought finally for me to sign, but that day of talking to me at that time they were taking statement and Silas was writing. On another time was a time they came for me to go over here and sign, and I sign.

  • All right. On that other occasion what happened then?

  • I signed the document.

  • Well, did you read through it before you signed it to make sure that they had correctly recorded what you'd told them in the course of the earlier interview?

  • Yes, I went through it, sir.

  • Did you make any corrections to it or changes to it?

  • I don't actually remember now, sir. I don't remember.