The transcripts of the trial of Charles Taylor, former President of Liberia. More…

  • Please proceed.

  • Your Honours, I believe we broke off in private session and --

  • Yes, Mr Witness, are you addressing counsel or addressing the Bench? What are you asking?

  • I want to talk to my lawyer.

  • Which is your lawyer? Who do you mean when you say "your lawyer"?

  • No, I want to speak to --

  • You want to speak to this gentleman?

  • Mr Usher, could you please check what the problem is.

    Mr Witness, please speak now and tell us what this problem is.

  • Your Honour, I wonder if we need to do this in private session. I don't know. I have no idea what the issue is.

  • We are all in the same - in the circumstances perhaps we will err on the side of caution. We are going to go into a brief private session for reasons of security of the witness as he wishes to raise something and we do not know the subject matter. Please put the Court in private session.

  • [At this point in the proceedings, a portion of the transcript, pages 19913 to 19950, was extracted and sealed under separate cover, as the proceeding was heard in private session.]

  • [Open session]

  • Your Honours, we are in open session.

  • Mr Anyah, I do not have on record a reply to my question to you dealing with the expedition. As I have commented, we have asked counsel what they seek by way of expedited filing. What do you have in mind for a response in light of the fact that the expedited filing emanates from your side of the Court?

  • Yes, Madam President. Would your Honour allow me to make these comments in open session or would you prefer that we go back to private session?

  • We are dealing with a procedural matter. The security, there is no need to refer to matters of security in open session. How long do you need to respond?

  • Yes. May I have a moment to consult with my colleague Mr Munyard as well as with Mr Taylor? Thank you.

    Madam President, we would request a period of 24 hours from the Prosecution's submission to file our response, excluding of course the non-working days of the Court. We do think that the five days is quite protracted. Perhaps they could file whatever applications they intend to file within the next 48 hours.

  • Mr Koumjian, you have heard - shall I put it a counter to your proposed five days. Have you any comment on that before the Court rules?

  • I would only comment that when we have completed it we will file it. It's in our interests also to have it dealt with expeditiously but also on our reply I have no idea what the Defence will raise, if there's issues of, for example, Bar rules, we would have to research that and it would take some time, so I would request three days to respond - to reply and again these are the maxims. We will try to file this as soon as we can.

  • We will deal first with the matter of expedited filings. We have already noted that the Prosecution intends to file a formal motion. That motion should be filed, we have in mind two days each. However, that will bring the Prosecution to 4 p.m. on Monday. Whilst that may be two court days in actual fact it's four calendar days. We therefore allow the Defence the same time to file its response and the Defence is at liberty to file their response early should they so wish. So as normal time will run from the filing of the motion for four days and if you wish to file earlier you may do so.

    In relation to Mr Munyard's phones, we direct the head of office in The Hague, Mr Townsend, to accommodate Mr Munyard's request to have his phone records put on record and that direction will be conveyed and we leave it to Mr Munyard and Mr Townsend to arrange a mutually convenient time.

    We will now have the witness brought in. Please lower the blinds.

  • Madam President, one minor question: Is the Prosecution being allowed the right of reply?

  • I was not sure of the deadlines that have been imposed by your Honours in that respect.

  • I did not put a deadline on the reply. Mr Koumjian had put in a caveat he was unsure how long it would take but I think in fairness to all parties I should make a ruling. The reply will be filed in two days.

  • [In the presence of the witness]

  • Mr Koumjian, it's your witness and I'm certainly not trying to interfere, but I probably would anticipate that you would find out from the witness whether he's comfortable proceeding in view of what he told the Court this morning. I'm bearing in mind that we're in public session, so I won't go into any further detail.

  • Very well, your Honours, as your Honours wish. Well, your Honour, I think we should be in private session for this. I don't think the witness could answer us in public session. I'm afraid of what he would say, that it would relate to what was said in private session. Unless I simply ask him to answer yes or no:

  • Mr Witness, I'm going to ask you a question. Only answer yes or no because we are in public session. Just so you know, I am prepared to continue, and the rest of the Court is, with your testimony today. We want to know whether you are prepared to continue today with your testimony. Just answer yes or no.

  • Very well. Thank you. Your Honours, I was I believe in private session when we broke off with the photographs.

  • Mr Koumjian, now that you have elicited that clarification, I should inform the witness what has happened. Mr Witness, whilst you were absent the Court heard legal arguments concerning the situation and the information you raised, and the Court will be hearing formal applications to have it investigated and WVS also are aware of the situation. Do you understand what I mean when I say WVS?

  • Yes, your Honour.

  • So we wish to assure you that allegations that you have made will be investigated. Please proceed.

  • Your Honours, I was in private session. I have to deal with some photographs. It's going to take 10 or 15 minutes to do so in private session.

  • Mr Anyah, this is a continuation of yesterday's private session to which you did not object.

  • And we do not interpose an objection at this point.

  • I was just wondering: Do we still have voice distortion in place?

  • Your Honour, voice distortion is still in place.

  • The Court will now hear evidence and in the light of the evidence issues of security may be raised and for that reason the Court will hear that evidence in private session. Please put the Court in private session.

  • [At this point in the proceedings, a portion of the transcript, pages 19955 to 19962, was extracted and sealed under separate cover, as the proceeding was heard in private session.]

  • [Open session]

  • Your Honours, we are in open session. The parties and the Chamber are being requested to put away the photos that have just been shown as we are now in open session and they may be visible.

  • Thank you for that. Please proceed, Mr Koumjian.

  • Thank you. Your Honours, before I continue the examination, over the break I conferred with counsel for the Defence. We reached an agreement on the motion yesterday regarding publication of part of the private session. What was agreed upon was that the parties agree that the Court order the publication beginning on yesterday's transcript - I don't know if your Honours have that before you - but page 19892, line 14. That is a question that begins, "When you say that Sam Bockarie would communicate with you do you mean by letter or by what means of communication?" We agree that the transcript be published up to page 19894, the second line, where your Honour the Presiding Judge Madam President says, "Very well". The remaining parts of the private session from yesterday would remain confidential.

  • Can you just give us the line on page 19894.

  • And I would confirm that that is an accurate recital of our agreement, Madam President.

  • Thank you, Mr Anyah. In the light of that, by consent, the transcript will be made as an open session on the pages recited by counsel and on the lines recited by counsel, being 19892, line 14, to page 19894, line 2.

  • Mr Witness, yesterday in the afternoon I had asked you if you knew where Sam Bockarie went from Burkina Faso and you said the Ivory Coast. Can you tell us what you know about Sam Bockarie going to the Ivory Coast?

  • Yes. I said when Sam Bockarie, according to Benjamin Yeaten, Musa Cisse was sent to Ghana to take him to Burkina, and whilst in Burkina in 2000, in the middle part of 2002, there were some manpower on the ground, Sam Bockarie's manpower, and according to Benjamin Yeaten, and the instruction came from Mr Taylor, that they should put those men together from the ATU and take them to Robertsfield airport, and they were taken to Robertsfield. Later, in the evening, we drove to Robertsfield along with Benjamin Yeaten, and a Burkina flight came and took those men to Burkina and whilst they were in Burkina, in the same 2000, the middle part of 2000, a man called Joe Tuah, a Special Forces, he started recruiting men for Ivory Coast and he was the chairman for mobilisation for the Ivory Coast war. He was the chairman for the recruitment for the Ivory Coast war, Joe Tuah, and later those men were put together and they moved to the Ivory Coast border to the customs. And the men crossed and attacked Ivory Coast and Sam Bockarie and his own manpower came from the Burkina border and attacked Ivory Coast. And later, whilst in Monrovia, Benjamin Yeaten called me and told me that you will have to report to your chief in Ivory Coast and that is Sam Bockarie and later he transported me.

  • Okay, thank you, Mr Witness. I want to ask you some questions about what you have told us before you go on. First, the information you have about Sam Bockarie moving with manpower from Burkina Faso to Ivory Coast, how do you know that?

  • Yes, I said it was General Yeaten who told me that Sam Bockarie is getting ready to come to Ivory Coast to fight and that was how his men were put together and sent to Ivory Coast - I mean, in Burkina to him.

  • Now, you ended your previous answer by saying that Benjamin Yeaten called you?

  • Sorry, Mr Koumjian, the witness has said, "It was General Yeaten who told me Sam Bockarie is getting ready to come to Ivory Coast." Is it Ivory Coast or Burkina or what?

  • No, I said Bockarie was already in Burkina and then Benjamin Yeaten told me that Sam Bockarie is getting ready to come to Ivory Coast from Burkina and that was how they put his men together and sent them to him.

  • Now, Mr Witness, when you said that Benjamin Yeaten called you and told you that you would have to report to your chief in Ivory Coast, who did you understand him to mean when you say your chief in Ivory Coast at that time?

  • Sam Bockarie.

  • And did you in fact go to the Ivory Coast and meet Sam Bockarie?

  • Now, do you recall approximately when this was? Can you give us any idea?

  • Yes, I said in the middle part of 2002.

  • When you got to the Ivory Coast, where did you see Sam Bockarie?

  • I first of all got to the Ivory Coast border and I was received by a guy called Sampson Weah and he took me to Danané to Sam Bockarie. That was where I met Sam.

  • Was Sam Bockarie with anyone in Danané?

  • What kinds of people was he with?

  • He was with those Sierra Leoneans, his troop that were sent to him in Burkina. He came with them and some Liberians too and also his wife.

  • Now, sir, you mentioned some Sierra Leoneans that came to him in Burkina. Who were these people?

  • Those were his fighters.

  • Were these trained troops or not?

  • They were trained. They were already in the ATU in Liberia and later they went to him.

  • Did these men who were Sierra Leoneans who had come who had been in the ATU - do you know when they had come to Liberia, the majority of them?

  • Yes, the very time I am talking about, that is some part of '99 that I was talking about, he came with those troops.

  • Do you recall any of the people that were there with Bockarie in Danané who were particularly close to him, any of his close aides?

  • Are you talking about his men?

  • Are there any names that you recall now?

  • Can you please tell us any of his, Sam Bockarie's, aides that were with him in Ivory Coast that you can recall?

  • One of his front-line commander was called Toasty and the S4 section, the guy who was controlling the S4 section, he was called Jabaty. And one of the his front-line commanders again he was called Van Damme and another guy - another front-line commander again, he was called Yellow Man and another guy whom they called Idrissa, he was a Sierra Leonean. There were so many.

  • You mentioned a person who was the S4. What does that mean, if you know, the S4?

  • He was in charge of every supply, like rice, any ammunition. In fact the whole of the G4 section, he was in control of it.

  • This person Jabaty, do you recall his last name?

  • Jabaty Jaward. I think Jaward. His last name is a Sierra Leonean name, so I don't --

  • Okay, thank you. Can you tell us anything else about this Jabaty that you know?

  • The only thing I know about Jabaty when I went to Danané is that I met him there, we were all there and he was supplying. When every front-line commander came, General Mosquito will send them to the S4 section to Jabaty and that was his responsibility. That was what he was doing. That is what I know about him.

  • Mr Witness, can you estimate, and if you don't know the answer just tell I us - but do you have any idea or estimation of the number of troops that Sam Bockarie had with him at that time in Ivory Coast?

  • The men who were sent to Sam Bockarie in Burkina were 1,000 men, but when he got into Ivory Coast the troop became large. They were more than two to three thousand. So I wouldn't exactly know the total figure.

  • Did Sam Bockarie have any means to communicate from Ivory Coast that you know of?

  • Yes.

  • Sam Bockarie had a Thuraya phone. A Thuraya phone. And he used to communicate directly with Mr Taylor and also with Benjamin - I mean General Benjamin Yeaten. So those were the people with whom he was in close contact.

  • Who was Sam Bockarie fighting against, if anyone, in Ivory Coast?

  • Madam President, this might very well assist your Honours and so I raise it bearing in mind it is still the Prosecution's case and we can of course ask questions in cross-examination, but this allegation that Sam Bockarie used to communicate directly with Mr Taylor and also with General Benjamin Yeaten, there is no indication of frequency and when these communications would take place and the witness's basis of knowledge. Was he present when these calls were being made? I mean how does he know all of this?

  • There isn't any foundation for this, Mr Koumjian.

  • Mr Witness, how do you know - you have told us that Sam Bockarie would communicate with Benjamin Yeaten and President Taylor. How do you know that?

  • Perhaps take them one at a time, Mr Koumjian.

  • How do you know that Sam Bockarie would communicate with Benjamin Yeaten, Mr Witness?

  • That was what I was explaining. When I went to him I was with him directly and I used to stand by him when he would have the Thuraya phone communicating and reporting to the chief and when he says "Chief" it was only Mr Taylor that he used to call Chief. And when he was addressing General Yeaten he would call him directly saying "General Yeaten", so I was directly with him whilst the communications were going on.

  • Who were you with when you heard these communications, Mr Witness?

  • I said I was with Sam Bockarie whilst the communications were going on. I used to be with him throughout.

  • What was your duties there in Ivory Coast when Benjamin Yeaten sent you there this time?

  • I went and I was doing my same job that I used to do as bodyguard to him, so when I went to Ivory Coast that was the same job that I was doing.

  • How long did you stay in the Ivory Coast on this occasion, approximately?

  • Yeah, when I got to the Ivory Coast it took me about two months with Sam for the first time.

  • Why did you leave the Ivory Coast that time?

  • It was one morning when Sam Bockarie told me to bring his wife, Hawa, his little son called Paul Vaye and his little daughter called Mammy Wye and another one who was called Prince. He asked me to bring them to Monrovia.

  • I just phonetically, Paul Vaye, the second name V-A-Y-E and Mammy Wye, just phonetically, W-Y-E:

  • Mr Witness, how old --

  • Madam President, with respect why can't the witness not attempt to spell these? These are important bits of information. As far as I know, I have been in this trial since January, and except for the name of the wife I don't know that any other witness has specifically given us details of the names of the children. To get the accurate spellings would be important at this time.

  • I don't believe the witness would have the spellings of the names. That's why.

  • Mr Witness, are you able to spell the name of these children?

  • Sir, how old approximately at that time was Paul Vaye, the first child?

  • Paul Vaye, he was three years.

  • How old was Mammy Wye?

  • Mammy Wye was just a year and a half, yes.

  • Approximately how old was Prince?

  • Prince was five years. Five.

  • What happened after Sam Bockarie asked you to take them to Monrovia?

  • I took them to Monrovia and I took them straight to the house, to his house, to his compound where he was staying. That was where I took them to.

  • Did you speak to anyone in Liberia at that time?

  • On my way when we crossed the border I did not speak to anybody. I brought them straight to town.

  • How long did you stay in Monrovia at that time?

  • When I came to Monrovia I - it took me about two weeks and then I returned.

  • You returned to where, sir?

  • I returned to Ivory Coast.

  • And did you take anyone with you?

  • Who did you take with you?

  • I took along his girlfriend, Sam Bockarie's girlfriend.

  • Where did you go in the Ivory Coast?

  • I went to Danané.

  • Mr Koumjian, it is not clear to me when the witness is ferrying members of Sam Bockarie's family to Monrovia and he said, "I took them to Monrovia where Sam Bockarie was." Was Sam Bockarie in Monrovia at this time, or you know, they keep giving words like "I came to" or "I went to". I am a little lost. Where was Sam Bockarie at the time the family was ferried to Monrovia?

  • Mr Witness, when Sam Bockarie asked you to take Hawa and his children, Paul Vaye and Mammy Wye and Prince to Monrovia, where exactly did you take them?

  • I took them straight to Mosquito's house. He still maintained his house, even though he was away.

  • Can you give us again the location of that house?

  • I said, when you get to ELWA Junction there is a road called 12 houses road. When you take that road you follow that road straight, you take a bend, a bend right, and then you will see a compound with four buildings.

  • Just so we are clear, when Sam Bockarie had you take his family to Monrovia did Sam Bockarie come with you or not?

  • No, he only sent me. He never went along with me to Monrovia.

  • When you returned to the Ivory Coast this time, now the second time you are there, with Sam Bockarie's girlfriend, how long did you stay in the Ivory Coast?

  • When I went with Sam Bockarie's girlfriend, I was there for close to one month.

  • Mr Witness, during the times that you were in the Ivory Coast with Sam Bockarie, what was going on?

  • Fighting was going on between Sam Bockarie's men and the Ivorian soldiers and the commander - the rebel leader at that time for the Ivory Coast, by the name of Philip Doh, commonly known as Andre, he too was there fighting.

  • You have told us that Philip Doh, known as Andre, was a rebel leader, so who was he fighting against?

  • Andre was fighting against the Ivorian soldiers.

  • What did you observe while you were there regarding the relationship between Sam Bockarie and the rebel commander Andre?

  • When we were there, Andre at one time came to Sam Bockarie, and by then we were in Man - we had gone to Man. He said Sam Bockarie's men are looting, and that they are bringing embarrassment and that besides Sam Bockarie wants his position. So there was a big conflict between he and Sam Bockarie. So later he left and he went to where he was based and that problem always went on. And later it became serious and Benjamin Yeaten - General Yeaten later called Andre. When he called Andre, at that time we were in Danané so Andre came to Danané to meet again with Sam Bockarie with that same complaint that his men are embarrassing. We were right there when General Yeaten called Andre, and he told Andre that this time I am sending a task force to come and control from the Danané area up to Man and if anybody was caught looting by my instruction that person will be executed and that task force commander was General Yeaten's younger brother by the name of Busy Boy.

  • Before we go any further, Mr Koumjian, this is getting somewhat confusing. In the answer to who were they fighting the witness said, "Fighting was going on between Sam Bockarie's men and the Ivorian soldiers and the commander the rebel leader Philip Doh." Now that conveys it to me that Sam Bockarie's men and the Ivorian soldiers together were in conflict with the rebel leader by the name of Philip Doh commonly known as Andre. Then we go on to a relationship between Bockarie and Andre which conveys that they were on the same side fighting the Ivorian soldiers. You will note that in the following paragraph.

  • Yes.

  • So there is three parties and who is fighting who in those three parties?

  • Thank you. We will clarify. Your Honour, just before we do, the transcript, the witness said at one point that they had moved to Man and we have previously had that spelled MAN, the French pronunciation.

  • I can make that clear.

  • Now, Mr Witness, I will ask you to clarify: You have told us about three different parties as the Presiding Judge has mentioned - the President has mentioned: Sam Bockarie's men, Andre's men and the Ivorian government soldiers. Can you tell us who was fighting against who?

  • Yes. The whole fighting in Ivory Coast, the rebel leader was Andre and General Mosquito was there to help to fight with the rebels. That means he was directly with Andre to help him fight against the government soldiers.

  • Okay, thank you. And, Mr Witness, this morning you have been very clear and slow in your pace. Please keep that up.

  • So did anything happen in the internal dispute between Sam Bockarie and Andre, that you are aware of?

  • Yes. I later said that they sent a task force and the name of the task force commander, but by then Andre and Sam Bockarie when the problem was getting very serious between the two of them Mr Taylor instructed Benjamin Yeaten to send the chairman for recruitment at that time for that war, Joe Tuah, to come to the Ivory Coast and settle the problem between Andre and that of Mosquito.

    When Joe Tuah arrived in Danané, that was in the morning right in Danané, he came where Mosquito was staying. I was present and he told General Mosquito that, "I am here with an instruction, so can we go to where Philip Doh is staying so that we can settle this problem?" Mosquito said, "I do not have problem with that" and General Mosquito he got ready, we got into his car, all of us drove to where Philip Doh was staying, a town called Bin-Houyé and Bin-Houyé was close to the Liberian border. That was where Philip Doh was staying. When we got to the place Joe Tuah said, "Mosquito, you are here causing problems. Your men are looting. That is not what we came here for." So, that made Mosquito very angry, that moment, so he told Joe Tuah that, "Let me tell you something. I am not taking instruction from you. Even the Benjamin Yeaten, I am not taking instruction from him. The only person that I am taking instruction from is Mr Taylor and as far as I am concerned you, the Benjamin Yeaten, I take you to be under men because I had been a leader - a rebel leader - so if any one of you get me angry I think we will fight here and whatsoever damages we do here we will do that."

    And later, Joe Tuah started calming down and so all of us talked to General Mosquito and he calmed down and Joe Tuah mediated the problem between he and Mosquito. And that very day they killed a cow, they cooked and everybody ate and we later left and went back to Danané.

  • Mr Witness, on this second time that you were in Ivory Coast, what happened when you left the Ivory Coast the second time?

  • I asked to be excused by General Mosquito for me to go to Monrovia and see my family, so I left and went to Monrovia.

  • Now, Mr Witness, do you know how long Sam Bockarie stayed in the Ivory Coast, or do you know if he ever - let me strike that. Do you know if Sam Bockarie ever left the Ivory Coast?

  • Yes.

  • How did you become aware that Sam Bockarie had left the Ivory Coast?

  • When I got to Monrovia it took like two weeks, close to one month, and later, whilst we were in Monrovia, all of us heard that there was a fighting - a serious fighting - and that rumour was going around that there was a serious fighting between General Mosquito and Philip Doh. And that fighting, whilst going through the battle, General Mosquito retreated with his men all the way to the Liberian border, to the customs, and they crossed the customs and that was where they were until later General Yeaten left Monrovia. I was there with him when he was leaving and he told us that there was a serious problem between Philip Doh and Mosquito and that Mosquito had crossed over to Liberia. So by the President Mr Taylor's instruction he is going for Mosquito to take him to a town called Cocopa.

  • Mr Witness, you said Sam Bockarie crossed over into Liberia. Do you know if he came alone or with anyone else?

  • He came along with all his fighters. He crossed along with all his fighters.

  • After Benjamin Yeaten left and said he was going to Cocopa, what is the next thing that happened to you?

  • When Benjamin Yeaten left and he went for General Mosquito from the customs and he brought him to Cocopa with all his men, he then took all of his men to a town called Bin-Houyé not far from Saclepea. That was where his men were based. And later, General Yeaten turned to Monrovia, and he told me that I should report to my chief at Cocopa, General Mosquito.

  • Madam President - I apologise. I will proceed after counsel has given the spelling.

  • The spelling we have is B-I-N hyphen H-O-U-Y-E: Mr Witness --

  • Yes, now, Mr Anyah, you are on your feet.

  • Yes, again I am raising an objection on the basis of foundation. We don't know what year we are in, we don't know the witness's knowledge base for what happens vis-a-vis Yeaten going to a border area, taking all of Sam Bockarie's men along with Bockarie to Cocopa and from Cocopa on to this other place called Bin-Houyé or however it is spelt. And now the last series of questions seem to bring back Benjamin Yeaten from Cocopa back to Monrovia and there is no basis for the witness - there is no foundation for the witness's personal knowledge nor the time frame when all of this is evolving.

  • Yes, Mr Koumjian?

  • Your Honour, I am conducting my examination. I have questions that I want to ask in a certain order. It frankly doesn't help me in understanding the sequence to be interrupted with suggestions of how I should conduct the examination. We will come to the time of when this happened in due course and many of counsel's questions will be answered. If they are not, he has cross-examination in order to ask those questions.

  • Proceed, Mr Koumjian, and if I consider that there is insufficient foundation I will raise it.

  • Thank you very much. Any time your Honours wish us to ask a question we are happy to do so:

  • Sir, you said Benjamin Yeaten came back to Monrovia. What happened then? Did you see Benjamin Yeaten after he returned to Monrovia?

  • What did he tell you?

  • General Yeaten told me, he said, "Get ready and report to your chief, General Mosquito, in Cocopa." And at that time all these things were happening at the same end part of 2002.

  • Mr Witness, what happened? Did you go to Cocopa?

  • Yes, I went to Cocopa.

  • Did you see anyone when you went to Cocopa?

  • Yes, when I got to Cocopa I saw General Mosquito along with his wife, Ma Hawa, and I gave him curtsy and I slept there with him.

  • After spending one day and spending the night in Cocopa, what did you do?

  • I went to visit somewhere.

  • Now, can you just tell us was that a relative you went to visit?

  • Okay, thank you. Now, Mr Witness, can you tell us approximately how long it was between the time you heard Sam Bockarie had crossed back into Liberia and when you went to see him in Cocopa? Can you give us any estimate of how much time had passed?

  • Come again with that question.

  • How long after Sam Bockarie had crossed into Liberia did you go to see him in Cocopa?

  • When he crossed into Liberia and when Yeaten left it took me four days to go to Cocopa.

  • Just a moment.

  • This is very confusing. When you ask these questions like you just asked it doesn't - to me it doesn't ascertain when these things happened and the confusion is compounded by the answer. It took him four days to get to Cocopa or four days before he went to Cocopa, or what?

  • I would add that the witness has said when Benjamin Yeaten left. Left Sam Bockarie at Cocopa or left Monrovia, because we have had evidence of both?

  • Plus we don't know when Sam Bockarie left Monrovia, so to ask him how many - when Benjamin Yeaten left. To ask how many days passed when we don't know when the initial event was, what evidence is that? I mean how does that take the case forward to us?

  • Well, your Honour, because my --

  • Because we are dealing with time frames and I appreciate what you are doing.

  • But we need time frames that are meaningful.

  • Your Honours, I believe we have certain dates that are very hard evidence, including reports that your Honours will know are dates that are fixed that are not in dispute. Witnesses - all witnesses - remembering dates, memories may be less reliable than that so sometimes when using events --

  • Actually I appreciate that, but you haven't put that to the witness. You are tantamount to giving evidence on behalf of the witness.

  • Okay. I see my question was not very helpful and I don't know whether to follow up on it or I have another approach I may take a little bit later for timing, but let me just try it one more time then:

  • Mr Witness, the question I am asking you is you told us you heard Sam Bockarie had crossed into Liberia with his fighters. Do you remember stating that?

  • How much time passed between when Sam Bockarie crossed into Liberia with his fighters and when you saw him in Cocopa, if you can estimate?

  • Sam Bockarie crossed into Liberia and it took one week at the customs at the border. One week. And it was within that one week that General Yeaten went there. And when he returned to Monrovia he spent two days, because he took him from the Liberian border to Cocopa, because I was not there, but he took one week at the border before he was being carried to Cocopa.

  • Okay. After Sam Bockarie was carried to Cocopa how much time passed between that and when you saw him in Cocopa, to the best of your recollection?

  • I said when General Yeaten returned to Monrovia it took me four days before I went to Cocopa.

  • When you say it took you four days before you went, do you mean four days before you left or the journey took you four days?

  • No, when Yeaten came to Monrovia he gave me the instruction and I spent four days before I left Monrovia to go. And the journey from Monrovia to Cocopa is just a day's journey.

  • Thank you. Now after you went to visit this relative what's the next thing that happened to you that you recall?

  • Yes, I had a friend - because I was not the only person on Mosquito's duty. I had a friend by the names of James Kemu. After I had taken - obtained excuse that I wanted to go and visit I spent a day when I left - when I left the following morning the area where I was, the house I was living in was right on the car road and it was early in the morning, around 6.30, when I opened the window I saw a heavy convoy passing, Yeaten's convoy, so I was very surprised and I later came outside.

    When I got outside later my sister and my aunt went to the market to do shopping. That was very early in the morning. So because I only went there for a day for me to return back to Cocopa, but when she went to the market she came back to me that morning and she said, "Oh, I saw a huge number of armed men around the market area and they brought a pick-up, the tyre got flat and they were down there." I said, "Okay, maybe from here they will take me and carry me", so I decided to walk to the place where the soldiers were. But when I got to the place I saw a best friend of mine - sir, I don't know whether I can continue to call names or --

  • Yes, there is one question I would like to take in private session and that is to ask the witness the name of the place he was at visiting his relative, so just simply that question I would like to take in private session.

  • The witness appears to also have hesitations about naming someone.

  • Mr Koumjian, he has referred to you.

  • Mr Witness, what we can do is are you willing to write down on a piece of paper that will be confidential that name?

  • Yes, I think I gave you --

  • Yes, I know the name, but your Honours first perhaps we just take a brief private session, one question, to ask the name of the place the witness was at visiting a relative.

  • Mr Anyah, you have heard the application.

  • Yes, Madam President, if we are indeed going into a private session he may very well say the name in private session.

  • I am asking you if you have any objection?

  • To going into private session?

  • I adopt Mr Anyah's suggestion and I will also ask the name of the person he saw.

  • For purposes of the record and the rules the Court will go into a brief private session to elicit some information. We are informed it will only be a couple of questions. This is for reasons of security of the witness. Please put the Court in private session, Madam Court Officer.

  • [At this point in the proceedings, a portion of the transcript, pages 19983 to 19984, was extracted and sealed under separate cover, as the proceeding was heard in private session.]

  • [Open session]

  • Your Honours, we are in open session.

  • Please proceed, Mr Koumjian.

  • Now, Mr Witness, in your previous answer you said your sister had told you that there were some soldiers - some armed men - around the market and you walked down there where you saw a friend. We will call this friend Mr X. What happened when you saw Mr X?

  • When I saw him, the first thing he did was to hold me by my hand and he said, "You are very lucky." That was the first thing he told me, "You are very lucky."

  • I thought something was missed in the interpretation. Mr Witness, would you please repeat what did Mr X tell you after grabbing your hand?

  • He said "My man, you are very lucky." That was what he told me. That was the first thing he told me, "My man, you are very, very lucky." That was the first thing he told me.

  • Then what did he say?

  • Then he held me by my hand and we went behind the house and he said, "You saw the convoy that passed just now?" I said "Yes." Then he said, "We are just from killing General Mosquito along with his wife and your friend James Kemu was also killed and beheaded, so you are very lucky. It was good that you were not present, because had you been present you would have been the one that would have been killed." Then I started asking him. I said, "What is going on? Can you brief me?" Then he decided to brief me. He said, "What I am coming to tell you I do not want you to tell anybody else because you are one of those whose names was called. Personally, you had been assigned to Sam so you were the one who was supposed to have been killed." Then I said, "No, I won't discuss it with anybody." Then he said, "When we left, an order came from Monrovia that was given to Mr Blah from Mr Taylor. This order came down and it was delivered to General Yeaten that Sam Bockarie was a serious embarrassment to Mr Taylor so for this reason Sam Bockarie should be killed along with all his men." So we went --

  • Mr Witness, you mentioned that a person was killed, that Mr X told you your friend James, and the transcript didn't pick up the second name, the last name, was also killed. What is the name of your friend who Mr X told you was also killed with Bockarie?

  • I called his name. I said James Kemu. James Kemu.

  • Who was James Kemu?

  • Kemu was assigned with the SSS and later took up assignment with General Mosquito, so all of us were assigned with General Mosquito.

  • You said that James Kemu was beheaded. Did Mr X explain to you why James Kemu was beheaded?

  • Yes. He said the way they planned the whole thing to kill Mosquito was that when General Yeaten got to Cocopa he sent for {Redacted} --

  • Your Honours, the witness is calling this name. I don't know if --

  • Please remember what counsel told you about naming Mr X.

  • Your Honour, can we do a redaction on page - well, it was just a few lines up. On mine it is page 86, line 18.

  • It is the same person?

  • [Trial Chamber conferred]

    There will be an order redacting the name of a person mentioned by the witness just now. Please implement that, Madam Court Officer. Mr Witness, I again remind you. Please proceed, Mr Koumjian.

  • Mr Witness, just answer this question. Did Mr X tell you why James Kemu was beheaded?

  • Yes, he said that James Kemu was beheaded so that his family members would not recognise him.

  • What was James Kemu's nationality?

  • Did Mr X tell you anything else about the other people with Sam Bockarie, or any plans regarding others with Bockarie?

  • Yes, that was what I was explaining. He said when they got to the place at Cocopa General Yeaten told him that they had taken Sam to the border at a town called Tiaplay to kill him, so General Yeaten asked Sam Bockarie, "I am" --

  • Your Honours, can he just repeat where he was going. "I am going to --"

  • Please pause, Mr Witness. The interpreter does not hear you clearly. Please pick up your answer after you said, "So General Yeaten asked Sam Bockarie --" Please continue from there.

  • General Yeaten told Sam Bockarie that he was going for a border tour and if he would be happy to go with him and he said "Yes". He had no alternative.

  • Okay. The question, Mr Witness, is if Mr X told you about any orders regarding others with Sam Bockarie besides James Kemu?

  • Yes, he said Sam Bockarie and all his men, his soldiers, should be arrested and killed and his wife should also be killed.

  • Mr Witness, what did you do after this conversation with Mr X?

  • I returned to the place, because he had already told me that I should be careful. So, I left there for about a few days and he left and went to Saclepea.

  • When you say, "I returned to the place", do you mean the relative's place that you told us earlier?

  • All the discussion was taking place at the area that he met me at my relative's area town.

  • So what did you do after the conversation? When you say, "I returned to the place", what do you mean?

  • No, no, I said I stayed in the town. I did not go anywhere. That was what I said.

  • What happened after you said you stayed in the town for a few days? What happened to you then?

  • After - let me just assume one week. After one week I decided to go to Saclepea and I left the town and went to Saclepea.

  • What happened when you got to Saclepea?

  • When I got to Saclepea I saw Mr X; the late Jungle, Daniel Tamba; one General Seaway; and Sampson Weah. The whole group --

  • Your Honours, can he take this last bit slowly and clearly.

  • Please pause, Mr Witness. The interpreter is having trouble hearing you clearly, Mr Witness. Please pick up after you mentioned Sampson Weah and you said, "The whole group --" Please continue from there and pronounce the names slowly for the interpreter.

  • I said when I got to Saclepea I saw Mr X; General Seaway; Daniel Tamba, also called Jungle; and Sampson Weah. All of them were at the city mayoress shop drinking. That was what I said.

  • Mr Interpreter, you said city what shop?

  • He is saying mayoress. That is why I asked a while ago for him to repeat. It is not very clear. City mayoress. City mayoress. The city mayoress. She was controlling the city.

  • Your Honour, one spelling. General Seaway is S-E-A-W-A-Y:

  • What happened when you saw this group drinking?

  • Yes, I saw Jungle. On the side I saw James Kemu who had now been beheaded, I saw his pistol on his side, the one that he was using, because the grip of the pistol was damaged, so Kemu had put a tape around it, so he had it on his side. He told me, that is Jungle now told me the same thing that Mr X told me. The same thing that Mr X told me, he told me the same thing that, "Here is your man Kemu's pistol and that you are a very lucky man because you are the one who was supposed to have been killed had you been present. So we killed James Kemu and his head was cut off".

  • Just so we are clear, who told you that on this occasion?

  • I said Daniel Tamba, also called Jungle. He was the one who told me.

  • Now, Mr Witness, do you know whether Daniel Tamba and James Kemu knew each other?

  • Very well.

  • Did they have any kind of - how did they know each other? Can you describe their relationship?

  • James Kemu and Daniel Tamba, we were all together in Monrovia and that was where James Kemu - I mean James Kemu and Daniel Tamba knew other, just friends.

  • Did it surprise you that Jungle would tell you in this way that he had killed his own friend James Kemu?

  • It made me scared. Not just surprised. It made me scared.

  • Why would you - okay. Well, did you find it or do you find it surprising now that Jungle would kill his own friend James Kemu?

  • Do you have any idea why he would do that?

  • The only idea I had at that time was that he was taking instructions. He was taking instructions to destroy, because according to him they did it to destroy evidence.

  • After having this conversation with Jungle, what did you do?

  • I later - Sampson later told me that General Yeaten was asking for me, so I should go with him at his base, at General Yeaten's base, right near Ganta, not far away from Ganta. That was where he was based. I asked him, "Would I not be killed?" And he said, "Everything - to me everything is over. It is good for you to go and see the general", so he and I left.

  • Excuse me, Mr Koumjian. The witness said - when you asked him the relationship between Kemu and Jungle he said, "We were all together in Monrovia and that is where I knew Kemu" and that these two were friends - rather, they were together. Okay, perhaps I withdraw the comment. The witness did they say were friends, because I thought that was you suggesting to him that they were friends.

  • That is what I understood he said.

  • You said that Yeaten was in Ganta. Help us a little bit with understanding what is going on in Liberia in general and Ganta specifically at that time?

  • Madam President, we don't know at which time. What year?

  • In fact, your Honours, this is partly why I am asking the question, because what is going on will help us to place the exact time and year.

  • Has the witness indicated that he doesn't recall a year before you jump to this other conclusion?

  • I think the witness has indicated - I don't want to put words in his mouth.

  • No, no. They asked me and I called the time. They asked me from the border to Cocopa. I called the time and the year. I said it was almost at the --

  • There is no question:

  • Mr Witness, let me ask you this question then so it is clarified. Do you know, or give the best of your recollection, when Sam Bockarie was killed?

  • Sam Bockarie was killed in 2003. At that time - excuse me, because I said the end of 1999 we crossed. So 2000 - I mean 2002, the ending part of 2002, we crossed. Then he left there. It was in the new year. We were getting into 2003 when LURD rebels were fighting.

  • Mr Witness, I am just asking these questions for timing. I think I can do it in one minute or we could stop. Do you recall when President Taylor finally left Liberia for exile?

  • When was that to the best of your recollection?

  • President Taylor left Liberia in 2003, 11 August.

  • How long before President Taylor left do you believe it was that Sam Bockarie was killed? How many weeks or months or years?

  • Objection. How long before President Taylor left does he believe Sam Bockarie was killed. It assumes that Sam Bockarie was killed before August. The witness didn't give us a month in 2003 when Sam Bockarie was killed. The question assumes he must have been killed before President Taylor left.

  • There is some validity in that, Mr Koumjian. Rephrase the question and it is actually past the usual - no, rephrase that question. I want it dealt with before we adjourn.

  • How long, Mr Witness, before or after President Taylor left Liberia for exile do you believe it was that Sam Bockarie was killed?

  • Sam Bockarie was killed - it took - when Sam Bockarie was killed it took more than two or three months before Mr Taylor left.

  • We will now take the lunchtime adjournment. Mr Witness, we are now going to take the lunchtime adjournment. We will be resuming court at 2.30. Please adjourn court to 2.30.

  • [Lunch break taken at 1.32 p.m.]

  • [Upon resuming at 2.34 p.m.]

  • Mr Koumjian, please proceed.

  • Thank you, your Honour:

  • Mr Witness, you had mentioned that after some time you decided to go to Ganta, is that correct, to speak to Mr Yeaten?

  • Yes, I said Sampson and I.

  • Now, sir, was there any fighting going on in that area at that time?

  • Yes, Ganta had fallen into the hands of the LURD rebels and so Yeaten was based right close to there, not too far from the town, and there was fighting in Ganta.

  • Do you recall any other commanders for Charles Taylor's forces that was there at the front line in Ganta?

  • Yes, I remember Jungle was there fighting.

  • Do you remember any other commanders who were assigned to Ganta in fighting against LURD?

  • Yes, High Command was one of the commanders in Ganta.

  • Who was High Command?

  • High Command was a Sierra Leonean.

  • What unit or units did he serve with, to your knowledge?

  • Was he in any other unit, to your knowledge?

  • Where, in Ganta?

  • No, let me go back and ask you first where was it that you first met High Command?

  • I met High Command in Monrovia.

  • What was, if you know, High Command's position in Monrovia?

  • He was - I met him with Benjamin Yeaten, as one of his bodyguards with the Yaplan group.

  • Can you repeat the name of the group?

  • Yaplan Unit. Yaplan Unit.

  • Is that a word in English, or do you know what language that word comes from?

  • It was just - I don't know whether it was English or not, but Benjamin Yeaten just put that unit together and he referred to it as Yaplan and so everybody was referring to it as the Yaplan Unit and that was part of his bodyguard group.

  • Do you know how to spell Yaplan?

  • Yaplan, it should be Y-A-P-L-A-N. I don't know whether it was an English name, or --

  • What kind of a soldier was High Command?

  • I said High Command was a Sierra Leonean who crossed with General Mosquito and later took assignment with Benjamin Yeaten and he was fighting alongside the Jungle Fire Unit.

  • If you know, what reputation did he have as a fighter?

  • I only knew him as one of the strong fighters among the commanders on the front line.

  • Thank you. Before we move on, can you tell us any other names of people that you remember that were part of this Yaplan Unit?

  • This Yaplan Unit, half of them were Sierra Leoneans in that unit and so there were many. You had RSM, you had Hindolo, you had Nyande inclusive and they were plenty.

  • Your Honours, I believe we have had two of these spellings before. Hindolo is H-I-N-D-O-L-O and Nyallay is N-Y-A-L-L-A-Y:

  • When you got to Ganta, what happened?

  • When I got to Ganta I met General Yeaten. I gave him a courtesy and he asked me, "Where are you coming from?", and I told him that I went on a visit. I went right beside him. He called me, using his finger gesticulation, and I went right beside him and I squatted there. He asked me, saying, "I guess you know what had happened?", and then I said, "No, sir". He said, "In case you were around for me to tell you to fire your commander, General Mosquito, what would you have done?" I said, "Chief, you gave me that assignment and if I were around for you to tell me shoot Mosquito I was going to shoot him straight off without any doubt because you gave me the assignment", and he said, "Okay".

  • Did General Yeaten tell you anything else during this conversation?

  • Yes, then he said, "I guess you know General Mosquito is now dead, along with Kemu, so what I want you to do is move to Saclepea and take over Saclepea as commander and any of those Mosquito bodyguards that you will see around arrest them and bring them to me". Then I said, "Yes, sir", and then I moved to Saclepea.

  • What happened when you went to Saclepea?

  • When I took over command at Saclepea I then arrested two of those men, Toasty and one of the guys I have just forgotten his name, and I took them to General Yeaten on his base. I said, "Chief, I brought two of the men". He said, "Okay", and he was very happy. He told me that, "You are cooperating. You are cooperating now, so I believe that you are not actually feeling bad about your commander". Then he said, "Go back and do your work", and then I left. I left the two men with him there and I went back to Saclepea.

  • Do you know what happened to Toasty and the other man you arrested and brought to Yeaten?

  • No, no, no, I only arrested them just as he told me and I took them to his base. I left them there and I went back to Saclepea. What happened and what did not happen, that I don't know.

  • After you went back to Saclepea, did you have any other assignments?

  • Yes, when I went back to Saclepea by then LURD was making a serious advance on to Monrovia and then Mr Taylor called General Yeaten to go to Monrovia. That very evening I went to his base, but he was on his way leaving for Monrovia and he left. Jungle by then was now taking care of the front line in Ganta, so that is General Tamba, and General Yeaten left, but before he left for Monrovia something happened on the front line in Ganta.

  • Mr Witness, you have mentioned Daniel --

  • I am sorry, Mr Koumjian, but the witness said, or I thought he said, "Then Mr Taylor called General Yeaten to go to Monrovia"?

  • That was what I said, but before he left something happened at the front line in Ganta and that is what I just want to explain before going to Monrovia.

  • Yes, I was just pointing to an error in the record that distorted what the witness said and I hope it is corrected later.

  • Mr Witness, what happened at the front line at Ganta at that time?

  • Okay. At the front line in Ganta, Jungle - Daniel Tamba - was shot by Nyande with a calibre and he killed him. Nyande said it was by General Yeaten's directive to kill Jungle, so they took the body to Monrovia.

  • Your Honour, I am hearing slightly differently to the interpretation for the name.

  • Also Mr Anyah is on his feet.

  • Well, this is the point. The witness when I looked at my notes when he first mentioned this name he said was Nyande and counsel spelt Nyallay. That struck me as awkward, Mr Taylor pointed it out to me and now the witness has repeated this name again Nyande which I would spell N-Y-A-N-D-E. The spelling given by learned counsel opposite is Nyallay.

  • Let us clarify whether they are one and the same person, or whether they are different persons, Mr Koumjian.

  • Sir, first would you say very loudly and clearly the name as you know it?

  • The person who is alleged to have committed this, or the previous --

  • The person that you are saying now shot Daniel Tamba?

  • I said Nyande. It is a Sierra Leonean name. So we just used to say "Nyande, Nyande", and that is the same Nyande that I am talking about.

  • Mr Interpreter, you also are changing what the witness is pronouncing. Mr Witness, could you pronounce it for us without interpretation. Say the name to us. We want to hear what you are saying.

  • I said it's a Sierra Leonean name. It's a Sierra Leonean name, not a Liberian name, so we used to call Nyande. Some people call it Nyallay, Nyande, so it's a Sierra Leonean name. It is not a Liberian name. Like somebody else like myself might not be used to the name, so that the spelling now myself I don't know because we used to call it Nyande.

  • Mr Koumjian, I think this is your problem now to ascertain to us (1) the spelling and (2) whether these are one and the same person, or two different people.

  • The second I am more confident about than the first. So, your Honours, obviously it is for your Honours as fact finders to find this. What I heard the witness say this time I would spell N-Y-A-N-Y. That is what I heard.

  • Mr Koumjian, it's more important to ascertain whether this character, Nyallay, is the one and the same person as the one formerly; the one which the witness said he collected, arrested and took to Yeaten.

  • That was Toasty, but he was mentioned before. A person was mentioned before and I will have the witness clarified how he has mentioned him.

  • He was one of the front line people at the Yaplan Unit, half of whom were Sierra Leonean. There were four named and that was one of them.

  • Mr Witness, you've talked about the person who shot Daniel Tamba. First of all, you said he is Sierra Leonean. What unit or units do you know him, the person who shot Daniel Tamba, to have been in?

  • I said it was Nyande who belonged to the Yaplan Unit. The Yaplan Unit was under the Jungle Fire Division.

  • Who was the commander at that time of the Jungle Fire Division?

  • The overall commander was - it was General Yeaten's unit, but he appointed one Junior Gbauelu as the Chief of Staff for Jungle Fire.

  • I will try and get that spelling:

  • Unless, Mr Witness, do you know how to spell the last name of the person you said was appointed Chief of Staff? You said "Junior" and then you said the last name something like Gbauelu?

  • I said Gbauelu. It's a Grebo name. It's a Grebo name.

  • We will try for a spelling and, if not, we will give it to you:

  • Do you know how to spell it, Mr Witness?

  • I think it should be G-B-A-U-E-L-U, but I don't really know.

  • He said it's a something name. Is that an ethnic group, or a location, or --

  • Sir, you said Gbauelu was a certain kind of name. Was that the name of a tribe, or the name of a place? What kind of name did you say it was?

  • Gbauelu is a Grebo name that belonged to the southeastern region in Maryland.

  • Thank you, Mr Witness. Going back to Nyany, can you tell us was he known for any particular - operating any particular weapons?

  • Yes, Nyany was operating the 30 calibre for Mr Yeaten in a Land Cruiser pick-up.

  • What kind of gun is that? Can you describe it?

  • Yes, it's a heavy weapon, but it had a back feed. It had a long belt fed. They will take the belt and then they put the rounds into the top and then you close it. After closing it the belt - the belt fed will be there and somebody will be behind it and he will start shooting. It has a long stand that is balanced in the pick-up.

  • Mr Interpreter, is that belt feed, or belt fed? What is a belt fed?

  • Belt fed is a type of belt that takes the bullets. That's what he is referring to as belt fed, that the gun is belt fed. The bullets are in the belt that is tied around the - that is put in the particular container controlled by someone.

  • Now, Mr Witness, you said that Nyany had shot Jungle. How do you know that?

  • It was Nyany himself who told me. It was through a conversation that it was an instruction from General Yeaten that he should shoot Jungle whilst they were on the front line, because he was always on the calibre and it goes a distance and according to him when --

  • Your Honours, that did not come out very clearly to the interpreter.

  • Mr Witness, the interpreter did not hear you clearly. Please go back to your answer from where you said, "He was always on the calibre and it goes a distance and according to him --", and continue from there please.

  • I said according to him he was over the calibre and Jungle was - Jungle's back was towards him and so he shot him from the back. That was how he killed him.

  • I would now apply for a brief private session to put a photograph - first I can proceed on one photograph in open session, then I have another one in private session. Let me just make sure I don't mix them up.

    Could the Court Officer please bring the photograph in tab 14 to the witness. I believe we have the original and that could be given to counsel and your Honours first, please.

  • Could we have the ERN number, please?

  • The photograph has the ERN number P0000807.

  • Mr Anyah, I see you are on your feet.

  • I think perhaps it's appropriate that I wait for your Honours to review the photograph first. May the photograph not be published yet to the witness until your Honours have ruled on the application I intend to make.

  • Yes. What is your application?

  • Madam President, I am looking at the photograph and your Honours have seen it. Nothing about the photograph immediately indicates what it pertains to. I do not see a representation of the witness in the photograph. Perhaps there would be more foundation as to what this event is about and the witness's knowledge for it rather than something perhaps in the photograph to suggest to him what it pertains to.

    I don't know if what I am saying makes sense, but the witness may very well have been told about an incident, for example a wedding, if we were to give an example, and the witness may have been told about persons who attended that event without the witness being present. A photograph is then shown to the witness and the witness may very well adopt that photograph as accurately depicting the event even if he wasn't there. So there has to be some connection or foundation, I propose to you, respecting this particular photograph and what is depicted and the witness's knowledge of what it is before he is shown the photograph.

  • If I might assist your Honours a little bit. The photograph - counsel is referring to an event. As I understand he is concerned that somehow this witness is going to be triggered about an event. The photograph is being shown to the witness only to identify individuals. I plan no testimony. I don't know what the event is and I don't plan to ask any questions about the event. The photograph is whether he recognises individuals in the photograph. That is the purpose.

  • We allow that questioning to proceed.

  • Mr Witness, you see on the screen in front of you a photograph and perhaps a copy could be given to the witness also. Sir, first in the centre of the photograph there is an individual holding a book. Do you recognise that individual?

  • No, I don't know the individual that is holding the book.

  • Okay. Can you tell me if there's anyone in the photograph that you recognise?

  • First, what is the name of the person that you recognise?

  • On this photograph there is a girl in a uniform. With one star on her cap. Her name is General --

  • Your Honours, the name of the lady was not clear.

  • Mr Witness, the name you gave, the interpreter is not clear. Please repeat the name.

  • I said, General Lucy. General Lucy.

  • Sir, could you take a pen on the copy in front of you and just draw a line as you have done previously and put General Lucy to that line that goes to the person that you are identifying.

  • Since there are two ladies in uniform what is --

  • I said - I said the one that is in the camouflage.

  • Thank you. That is most helpful, Mr Witness. I didn't hear camouflage.

  • Shall I go ahead?

  • Yes, sir, please do that.

  • There was testimony that doesn't appear on the record. In describing this person identified by the witness the witness said something about the person being a chief of staff. It does not appear anywhere in the record.

  • You are quite right, Mr Anyah. That was said. Mr Witness, part of your answer has not been recorded. You said her name was General Lucy and then you went on to say something about her. That has not been recorded. Please repeat it.

  • I said she was aide-de-camp to Mr Taylor.

  • Thank you:

  • Is there anyone else in the photograph that you recognise?

  • Yes. Standing close to the man with the book in his hand, the person that has a stick in his hand, with the dark pair of glasses, is Mr Taylor.

  • Thank you. I don't believe it's necessary to write that. Anyone else that you recognise?

  • Yes. Standing right here, close to the lady with the police uniform, the person who is standing right near her with a coat suit, his name is Joseph Montgomery.

  • Okay. Thank you. Would you please draw a line and write his name. Who else do you recognise, sir?

  • Standing right near Mr Taylor, with a round hat on her head is Kadiatu Jara [phon].

  • Would you please write her name with a line going to where she is in the photograph. Anyone else you recognise?

  • Yes. Standing right near Kadiatu is James Kemu.

  • Is this the same individual who you indicated was beheaded during the killing of Bockarie?

  • Would you please draw a line and write his name, draw a line to where he appears in the photograph?

  • There are several persons standing near this lady, so if the witness could indicate on the main photograph who he is referring to.

  • Perhaps, sir, can you tell us what he is wearing, James Kemu?

  • He is wearing a coat suit with a neck tie, right behind Kadiatu.

  • It may be easier for everyone if he could just go and indicate on the overhead so we can see what he is pointing at describing.

  • Actually I think easiest at this point is if the witness completes putting the names and lines and then we put the copy on the overhead and he could recognise all of them.

  • Well, the manner in which we proceed is within your Honour's discretion.

  • I think we will complete them and then we will see them.

  • Sir, why don't you go ahead. Who is the next person you recognise?

  • The next person I recognise in this photograph is General Isaac Musa who is standing right here with the hat, the country hat on his head. Near or right behind - you see one person behind Taylor and then the next person behind that with a country hat on his head.

  • Thank you. Would you draw a line and write the name, please. By a country hat, what do you mean?

  • The African hat on his head. Round hat.

  • Is there anyone else in the photograph that you recognise?

  • Yes. Standing right near Montgomery, that is Joseph Montgomery, is a girl in a uniform, a khaki uniform. She is General Batty Musa.

  • I am trying to understand which person that is. Going from the right in the photograph there is a woman in the foreground there in a uniform and a hat and then on the other side --

  • No. The lady that is standing in uniform and next to that lady is Montgomery. Just after Montgomery is the lady that I'm talking about. She is General Musa, Batty Musa. You see her with a khaki and you can see the uniform with a khaki skirt with a uniform. You see it.

  • Thank you. Would you please draw a line to her photograph and write her name.

  • Anyone else you recognise, sir?

  • Yes. Standing right behind Mr Taylor you see a man standing with a neck tie in coat suit. He is Special Forces James Saway.

  • What colour suit?

  • Right near Isaac Musa, or in front of Isaac Musa, with a coat suit. You see he has something like red and close to his neck.

  • Thank you. Please draw a line and write the name drawing a line to where he appears in the photograph. Is there anyone else in the photograph that you recognise?

  • And the others at the back, I don't see them clearly. So for now these are the ones that I recognise.

  • Thank you. Could the copy then be put on the overhead, please. Sir, going from right to left you wrote Joseph. Who is Joseph again?

  • Montgomery. Joseph Montgomery. He was one of the directors in the SSS. 52.

  • Then you wrote Batty Musa. I believe you described her - you gave her a title before. Who was Batty Musa, the next name?

  • She was one of the aide-de-camps to Mr Taylor.

  • The next name, James Saway, you indicated that was the person with the red on and a suit?

  • He was one of the Special Forces that came with Mr Taylor into Liberia.

  • There is then a line coming from the gentleman with the round, black hat on his head standing towards the back and it says General Musa. Who was that?

  • General Musa was one of the Special Forces and a battle group commander when Mr Taylor crossed over into Liberia.

  • You then have a photograph to the woman with the hat pulled rather low. "Kayatu", you have written. Who is she?

  • Kayatu was a special assistant to Mr Taylor in Monrovia during his presidency.

  • Is that Kayatu or Kadiatu?

  • Witness, how do you pronounce her name?

  • Kayatu Jara. Kayatu Jara.

  • The next line is going from the person who appears to be wearing grey suit, white shirt and tie and you have written James. What you wrote after that I cannot quite read. What did you write? Who is that with the grey suit, white shirt?

  • Kemu. K-A-R-M-U.

  • I believe I spelled this different, so, sir, is that the person that you said was beheaded?

  • Mr Koumjian, could we ascertain, this this lady again, because initially the record shows and I heard Kadiatu Jara. Now it's Kayatu Deara [phon]. Which is it?

  • Sir, how do you pronounce her name? What is her name?

  • This name we used to call her because she was the one who used to pay us, so the name that I know that we used to call her is Kayatu. But other people used to call it frequently as Kadiatu, Kadiatu. So she said her name was Kayatu Jara, so that is the name that I know, Kayatu.

  • Her surname is Deara or Jara?

  • Jara. Jara. Kayatu Jara. But I do not know how to spell the last name.

  • You said she is the one that used to pay us. What do you mean by that?

  • When we came from training she was the one who used to give us our money. Our pay that we used to receive in envelopes, she was the one who used to give them to us. When you go to her, during pay day you will sign and then you will receive your envelope.

  • The woman - in the far left you have a line above the woman in the camouflage uniform with a cap that appears to have a star in the middle. Who is that?

  • General Lucy. She was one of the aide-de-camps to Mr Taylor.

  • Do you know approximately how old General Lucy was?

  • But when - well, the witness does not know.

  • Thank you. I have finished with the photograph.

  • Well, Madam President, this person James Kemu, that learned counsel gave us a different spelling for his last name versus the witness, that is an important name given the evidence led so far and perhaps this is the time to clarify that if they are one and the same person.

  • I think it has been clarified. I will ask for the fourth time:

  • Sir, is James Kemu who you indicated on the photograph the same person that you said was beheaded around the time that Sam Bockarie was killed?

  • Yes, but I do not know how to spell the last name. I just put it there as K-A-R-M-U. He was the same person that was beheaded, James Kemu.

  • We take it the witness can't spell Saway's surname either, because it's spelt differently there from what you gave us.

  • This name - this Saway name is a country name. I do not know how to spell Saway. This is a native name. It's not an English name, Saway.

  • Well, Madam President, this is why I said initially that the witness should go to the overhead projector. We now have several names, different spelling given by counsel opposite on the record for them, including Kemu and Seaway, than the witness spelt. We have had issues today with pronunciations of last names and even when we have names that we can all easily agree like the spelling of Betty we have it wrong on the photograph. So in cases where we have names that are easily spelt and there would be no dispute the Prosecution does not provide assistance to the witness. In cases where there might be controversy in evidence vis-a-vis the significance of the name, like Nyande or Nyallay, the spelling is given forth.

    So we would propose that there should be some structured way in which we proceed when circumstances like this arise, where a witness cannot spell particular names that are critical evidentially speaking.

  • I am not sure I heard what counsel is asking for, but I hear what he is arguing. I understand it refers to future proceedings. I am prepared to move on. I have one more photograph which I need to do in private session.

  • Mr Anyah, are you raising an objection to this or are you seeking clarification of these names to ensure they are all one and the same? I have to deal with that before I deal with the private session matter.

  • Like I indicated previously, it's up to your Honours to naturally decide how we proceed. But if your Honours are satisfied with the spelling of Betty as appears on this and the differences in the spelling of the last name of James Saway, as well as Mr Kemu then we have no choice but to proceed.

  • Well, Batty has not been spelt before as far as I know so we only have the witness's spelling. Kemu, he has already said he doesn't know how to spell it in any event, so that is a non sequitur. If the James Saway is the only one then that there is some doubt about - Mr Koumjian, what do you say about this James Saway name. We have got two spellings now. Can we ascertain that they are one and the same person then the record will show that they are one and the same person.

  • Who was - the problem is I am having trouble now remembering when the witness mentioned the name previously but I do recall he did. Mr Witness, who was James Saway?

  • I said James Saway was a Special Forces commando who came with Mr Taylor and he is different from the General Seaway that I have been talking about.

  • Thank you for that clarification.

  • I think that clarifies the record. We will now deal with the private session.

  • I have to say that Mr Anyah was correct about the ambiguity. I concede that.

  • Mr Anyah, we have an application to deal with some matter in private session.

  • We are going into a short private session to deal with a matter relating to a photograph, I understand, and it relates to security of the witness. Please put the Court in private session.

  • [At this point in the proceedings, a portion of the transcript, pages 20012 to 20015, was extracted and sealed under separate cover, as the proceeding was heard in private session.]

  • [Open session]

  • Your Honour, we are in open session.

  • Thank you. That is a one page document, a photograph identified by the witness. Am I to take it that the original will also be entered with an MFI number, or is it only this copy?

  • Only the original. The witness did not write on it. I was just going to enter the original.

  • Your Honour, I don't believe - my colleagues have indicated that I failed to ask for an MFI number for the last photograph that was dealt with in open session.

  • That is correct. It has not been marked for identification.

  • Thank you. That is ERN number P0000807. It's the original and the copy that was written on by the witness. I would ask that they both be given MFI numbers.

  • Very well. That is also a photograph of persons identified by the witness - a group. The original is MFI-10A and the copy with identifying names is MFI-10B.

  • Just one further area, Mr Witness. When you were discussing with us what Mr X told you when he grabbed your hand you said he said, "My man". What kind of expression is that?

  • The word "My meh" is a friendly word, like for instance when you say "My friend", and so in the Liberian way you can look at your friend and say, "My meh". That is what it indicates.

  • Is that something that is used infrequently, or frequently, or how would you describe the frequency with which it is used?

  • Well, the "My meh" you use that with your peer group, somebody with whom you are at the same level, because somebody older than you if you referred to that person as "My meh" that person will get angry with you. So, you can only refer to a friend of yours - a peer group of yours - as "My meh".

  • Thank you. Your Honours, I have no further questions.

  • Yes, thank you, Madam President. I had indicated to your Honours yesterday that we would possibly be making an application for an adjournment to commence the cross-examination of this witness. I wish to make that application now.

    There are two primary grounds for our with request; the second of which arose today in respect of the matters that were discussed in private session this morning as raised by the witness. I will reserve commentary as to why that provides a justification for an adjournment until later on during my submissions, because I need some guidance as to if I can proceed in open session in saying why that necessitates a continuance.

    With respect to the first basis for the request, your Honours will recall that on Monday this week we appeared before your Honours and there was some uncertainty about the manner in which we would proceed this week vis-a-vis the availability of Prosecution witnesses.

    The Prosecution gave us notice of this witness's appearance this week I believe on 20 October. The CMS number for that filing was CMS 641. That is when we first knew that this witness would appear before your Honours this week.

    On Friday last, in the evening, we received an email from lead Prosecution counsel, Ms Brenda Hollis, indicating that on Monday this week, 3 November, the Prosecution was unlikely to have any witnesses available and that that could possibly be the same for the rest of the week.

    Your Honours will also recall that late on Friday, at the close of the court session, I made a request and you acquiesced in it that the Prosecution indicate to us before close of business on Friday who they proposed to call on Monday, 3 November.

    When we arrived in court on Monday, Ms Hollis and I had a conference and Ms Hollis then said that this witness was available and that they were intending to call the witness with leave of the Court on Tuesday, 4th. I spoke with her and I said that perhaps Wednesday would be fairer to everybody. This was before I sought instructions from Mr Taylor. Your Honours will recall that before we came forth with a joint application, or proposal, to the Chamber for an adjournment of the entire week's proceedings, we conferred with Mr Taylor and he was of the view that the entire week's proceedings should be adjourned.

    In sum and substance, we had notice of the witness appearing on the 20th of - notice was given on 20 October, we arrived in court on Monday and it was not certain that any witnesses would appear on Monday. On Monday, disclosures were made to us. At the time we made the joint application that the proceedings should be adjourned for a week we did not know the nature of the disclosure. I can tell your Honours on Monday, the first set of disclosures received --

  • When you say "disclosure", do you mean documents other than documents that were given to you within the 42 day period?

  • These are documents from proofing sessions held with this witness through Monday this week, 3 November. On Monday this week a three page document with 20 something separate paragraphs was disclosed to us, then later in the day a single page document was disclosed to us in respect of proofing sessions with the witness that extended to Monday, 3 November.

    Now three pages does not appear to be a lot, but as I have indicated it does have 24 paragraphs, each of those paragraphs I submit deals almost with discrete issues that in and of themselves would necessitate further enquiry and we did not know the extent of the disclosures that were forthcoming.

    As late as Tuesday photographs were still being given to us, some previously admitted as exhibits in this case but for the first time the indication coming that they could be referred to in the witness's evidence and then some photographs were fresh photographs as in they were given to us in respect of this witness on Tuesday, which is 4 November.

    As of yesterday I indicated to the Chamber that in the evening, or some time in the afternoon, we did receive the additional disclosure which was a letter from Ms Hollis accompanied by handwritten document written by the witness. So this is the sequence of events that have led us to this point.

    I have not been properly instructed by Mr Taylor regarding this witness. I received his instructions in respect of all these disclosures late last night and I don't even know if he has read the additional disclosures that were given to us on Monday.

    So that is the primary basis, that there has been some fluidity in the transfer of documents concerning this witness's evidence quite late in time through the time when the witness almost has taken the witness stand, and so that is the first basis for our request for an adjournment.

    When we say an adjournment, ordinarily we would indicate a time frame when we feel we would be otherwise adequately prepared to undertake the cross-examination but we can't do so because of the second basis for my application which is open-ended because it is contingent on any possible submissions made by the parties and ultimately a ruling made by your Honours in respect of that discrete issue that was raised this morning in private session.

    Now, if you wish for me to attempt, though vaguely, to propose why the issues raised this morning necessitate a continuance and you are happy for me to do that in open session I would be happy to proceed. But it is a fine line I will be threading if I attempted to speak to that issue. I just do not wish to have in public consumption allegations of that nature, if it please your Honours.

  • It is the view of the Bench that the second leg of your submission should be in private session and in the absence of the witness. So, Mr Witness, as happened this morning, certain legal and other issues will be argued in your - we think it is best that we let you go and rest somewhere else while those legal and other arguments are being made. We also for purposes of record will take this next part of the submission in private session for reasons of security of the witness. So please put the Court in private session and then lower the blinds and assist the witness to leave the court.

  • [At this point in the proceedings, a portion of the transcript, pages 20021 to 20032, was extracted and sealed under separate cover, as the proceeding was heard in private session.]

  • [Open session]

  • Your Honour, we are in open session.

  • We have considered the submissions of counsel and we grant an adjournment of the cross-examination of this witness to Monday, 24 November, on which date it may be necessary to give further directions depending upon the outcome of the motion or motions that we have been indicated will be filed. For the following reasons: One, we agree with counsel for the Defence that some disclosures, for example those earlier this week, entitle the Defence to an adjournment.

    Secondly, a serious matter raised this morning in court, which has been discussed in private session, precludes a Defence counsel from contacting the rest of their team abroad for purposes of the necessary investigation prior to their cross-examination of this witness.

    For these reasons the adjournment as indicated has been granted.

    Mr Koumjian, will there be a witness - you will have a witness available tomorrow?

  • Yes, we have a witness available tomorrow. The Defence has been notified as to who that witness is.

  • It may assist your Honours if I just be heard in respect of this next witness, because the ruling your Honours have just made does have implications concerning that witness. I do not know if your Honours recall that Mr Munyard indicated before departing that he had carriage of that witness for the Defence and that is in fact the case, that Mr Munyard has carriage of that witness for the Defence.

    In light of your ruling and under the circumstances I do not know not without having spoken to him whether Mr Munyard, considering his ethical obligations to his Bar, will feel confident enough to appear before your Honours.

    So I would propose a compromise solution which would be necessarily another counsel for Defence will have to take over that witness for the interim period of time and the only issue then arising would be how much time we need to prepare that witness. I do know from indications given that this witness might be a 92 bis witness that is now a live witness. I think previously they were designated as a 92 bis witness and now they are brought to appear life. I stand to be corrected. Should that be the case don't think too much time will be needed.

  • Without wishing to interrupt you unnecessarily, it's clear that it is necessary for you to take certain information from your colleague before you are clear as to your stand in this matter. In the circumstances I think it would be best, rather than you working in the air, I might say, to have those clear indications, Mr Anyah, and we will deal with the whole issue tomorrow morning.

    So in the circumstances we will adjourn until tomorrow morning and the witness will be on standby, Mr Koumjian please.

  • Sorry, which? 045?

  • I don't know, I'm sorry. I haven't had an indication from you what the number of the witness is.

  • Yes, that is the next witness. It is not a 92 bis witness. It definitely is an insider witness. Your Honours, we will be prepared with that witness.

    There is an issue with the current witness who has not been informed anything about this. Your Honours realise that in the current condition he has a limited visa which I imagine could be extended by VWS, but he is basically confined to a single place. I don't know if your Honours are ordering him to remain here in that place for the next whatever number of days it is, I believe it's 18 days, until he continues his testimony or whether arrangements could be made possibly, in which case if he leaves I think he should be ordered to return. Perhaps we can deal with all this tomorrow after everyone thinks about it.

  • Yes, I can see that there are mechanical and practical issues that you will wish to address before dealing with that.

    The one thing - I have not reminded the witness of his oath. I wish to do so and therefore we should have the witness brought back in. I will only remind him of his oath and we will deal with all other matters tomorrow morning.

    Can the blinds be lowered and the witness brought in, please.

  • Mr Koumjian, if it's of any assistance at all, our decision was to adjourn this cross-examination at this stage until Monday the 24th. We are not ordering you to keep the witness any particular place, just have him here on the 24th. What happens to him between now and the 24th is a matter for the Prosecution.

  • Thank you. But also unless there is an order also for the witness, because all our witnesses are here voluntarily. We haven't ordered any of them to be here so far, except for one witness your Honours did subpoena.

  • Well, we haven't issued individual orders for any witness. If you want him to give evidence on the 24th have him here.

  • There is another issue - but we can deal with this tomorrow - that we cannot speak to him. That is a very serious problem for us.

  • Yes, I appreciate that, Mr Koumjian.

  • [In the presence of the witness]

  • Good afternoon, Mr Witness. Mr Witness, you made certain statements this morning and, as indicated to you this morning, certain procedures would have to be followed as a result of those statements you made.

    As a result of that, and having heard the lawyers, the Court has decided to hear the lawyers regarding what you have said and for that reason and another reason your cross-examination cannot continue at this time until that is dealt with.

    Therefore the Court is adjourning your cross-examination until Monday, 24 November at which date you will come back to the Court to hear the next step in the adducing of your evidence.

    I wish to remind you, as I did yesterday, that you are under oath, you are still under oath and you should not discuss your evidence with any other person. Do you understand what I have said?

  • Yes.

  • Very well. We are now adjourning the Court until tomorrow morning at 9.30. Please adjourn Court until tomorrow morning.

  • [Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 4.40 p.m. to be reconvened on Friday, 7 November 2008 at 9.30 a.m.]