The transcripts of the trial of Charles Taylor, former President of Liberia. More…

  • Good morning, Mr Witness.

  • Good morning, Mr Santora.

  • Now again I'm going to sound a little bit repetitive here but I'm going to remind you please, please speak slowly and listen to the question and answer the specific question that you're asked, okay?

  • And please also when you're answering your questions to address the judges.

  • Okay.

  • Now before we continue on with what you were testifying to yesterday there's a few matters from what you said yesterday that I would like to attempt to clarify. Just for counsel's reference I'll give you the transcript number prior to the question. The first reference is page 21489, line 17. Mr Witness, yesterday when you were testifying you referred to an individual called Mosquito Spray. Do you remember making a reference to this individual?

  • Yes, I spoke about Mosquito Spray yesterday.

  • Just to clarify, who was Mosquito Spray?

  • Mosquito Spray - I did not know him in person, I only heard about him, that he was a leader or somebody who led insurgents to fight against the Liberian government led by Mr Taylor.

  • Yesterday also when you were testifying, and this reference, counsel, is 21491, you were testifying about the transport of ammunitions from Monrovia to Buedu and you said that these ammunitions would often be accompanied by three individuals - well, you identified three individuals, you named three individuals including Jungle, Zigzag Marzah and one other Mosquito, Liberian Mosquito, he was in Liberia. Do you remember testifying about that?

  • Yes.

  • During the course of that, and this is - you said, and I'm going to repeat your answer and I just want to clarify who you were referring to. You said, "Jungle was a direct security to Benjamin Yeaten and Jungle was also one of the liaisons from the Liberian side. That is between Benjamin Yeaten and Mosquito. Or let me say RUF directly. That is Jungle, Colonel Mosquito, they are all liaisons."

    When you said that Colonel Mosquito, which Mosquito were you referring to?

  • Mosquito was one of Mr Taylor's securities. He was one of Mr Taylor's securities in Liberia.

  • Do you know his real name?

  • In that case, Mr Santora, that sentence that you just quoted, when it says that is between Benjamin Yeaten and Mosquito, which Mosquito is that? There seem to be two Mosquitos in that sentence, yes?

  • I understand that. Let me go back to it:

  • The sentence before that, Mr Witness, you said, and here's the reference and I just want to clarify which Mosquito you're referring to, okay? You said "Jungle was a direct security to Benjamin Yeaten and Jungle was also one of the liaisons from the Liberian side, that is between Benjamin and Mosquito." Now which Mosquito are you referring to there?

  • When I spoke about Mosquito I meant Sam Bockarie, a late man. Any time I want to refer to the Mosquito in Liberia I will say Liberian Mosquito. There were two Mosquitos. The one was Sam Bockarie. I meant that Jungle was one of the liaisons - sorry, Liberian Mosquito was one of the liaisons between Sam Bockarie and Benjamin Yeaten.

  • So Colonel Mosquito was the liaison, was the Liberian Mosquito, yes?

  • Now yesterday during the course of questioning you were describing some of your trips to Monrovia and you said on one occasion prior to the Freetown invasion of 6 January 1999, that on one occasion you yourself went with Victor and Yellow Man and Jungle without Sam Bockarie to Monrovia. Do you remember talking about that yesterday?

  • Yes.

  • Now it was some follow-up to that particular trip that I never inquired from you yesterday about. Again do you remember when approximately this occurred?

  • I said around mid-1998.

  • And what happened on this particular trip? Can you recall what happened? Or what did you do on this particular trip?

  • It was a trip that I went on to receive ammunition in Liberia, in Monrovia.

  • Where specifically did you go?

  • We received the ammunition from Five-Zero and returned to Liberia. Sorry, returned to Sierra Leone on the same day.

  • Where did you receive this from Five-Zero?

  • How do you know? Let me withdraw the question. When you say behind White Flower, were you there, were you present when the weapons were received? I'm sorry, I should repeat that. When the ammunitions were received, were you present?

  • Yes.

  • Where were you specifically?

  • I was on the scene. I was standing right by the van that we went with. We were in the van when Benjamin called - there were some other Liberian securities but I did not know their names. They were the ones who loaded the ammunition into the vehicle and we moved.

  • Did you see them loading ammunition?

  • Can you describe the ammunition? Can you recall what type?

  • They were assorted. AK rounds. It was more of AK, GMG rounds and some RPG rockets.

  • And when you went to Monrovia from Buedu by what means did you go to Monrovia?

  • We used a vehicle to go.

  • How many vehicles?

  • One.

  • And when you were loading the - when the ammunitions were loaded how many vehicles were involved?

  • It was only the vehicle that we went with. That was the vehicle that had the ammunition. But apart from that Benjamin's vehicle was parked there and there were some other vehicles, but it was only that vehicle that was involved in the ammunition.

  • And what kind of vehicle? Can you recall what kind of vehicle you were in?

  • It was a Hilux, Hilux van.

  • Just one final point. Specifically, can you recall where exactly within the - you said it was at Benjamin Yeaten's house but where specifically did this loading take place, can you recall?

  • It was right inside of White Flower. Behind White Flower, not at Benjamin's house. It was at White Flower itself, not Benjamin's house. It was behind White Flower. There is some underground area.

  • Mr Santora, did the witness tell us what White Flower is? Did this witness tell us what White Flower is.

  • Not this morning I believe, but I can ask again, but I believe it was prior on the record but I will ask again:

  • When you say White Flower what do you mean?

  • Mr Taylor's house, where he lived.

  • At the house. That is where we referred to as White Flower.

  • Can I just point out that the witness has not this morning referred to Benjamin Yeaten's house as my learned friend put to him. I can't see it anywhere on the transcript, nor is it in my recollection.

  • I think the witness did correct counsel. The witness himself corrected counsel to say it wasn't at Benjamin Yeaten's house.

  • He may well have done.

  • He didn't say that and I was basing - I withdraw that. I was basing that on what he said yesterday. In general speaking of all of these trips he did say he would go to that particular location and that's what I was basing that on. But anyway, it's a moot point anyway:

  • Mr Witness, so besides yourself and Yellow Man and Jungle and Victor, did anyone else go along on this trip, do you remember?

  • No, I don't recall. That particular trip, I'm not sure.

  • And why were you there?

  • It was for communication purposes. A meeting was to be held which we referred to as forum for the commanders, but he could not go on that trip because he used to convey a meeting, just ad hoc meetings that he used to call. He had already invited the commanders, they were on their way, and being that that was an opportunity to get the materials he did not go. He decided to talk to the commanders.

  • Who do you mean he? Just be --

  • So you said you went for communication purposes?

  • Communication purposes in what sense?

  • So that if any problem occurred, or whatever information that Mosquito was supposed to get, that is Sam Bockarie, that he was supposed to get in Buedu, I would easily inform him.

  • The next reference, counsel, and the last one before we continue is page 21526 and the specific phrase is located on lines 20 and 21. Mr Witness, yesterday you were talking about Mosquito sending people to areas in Liberia with cash to buy weapons - to buy ammunitions, I'm sorry, from ex-fighters. Do you remember speaking about that yesterday?

  • Yes.

  • During the course of your testifying yesterday you said this following sentence and I'm going to ask you to clarify this sentence. You said, "At that time those ammunition had been buried in the bushes and by then nobody actually needed them so they thought they could just sell them and get something out of them."

    When you said "by then nobody actually needed them" what did you do mean?

  • What I meant exactly was that the fighters who had hidden those ammunition, I thought that the ammunition was not useful to them and if they had left it in the bush it would have just rusted.

  • Your Honours, can the witness repeat and speak slowly.

  • Mr Witness, you're going too fast for the interpreters. Speak slowly, pause at the end of each sentence. Pick up your answer from where you said, "If they had left it in the bush it would have just rusted." Continue from there, please.

  • Okay. The ex-fighters themselves who had hidden those ammunition, that was one of the ways that they could benefit from them, that the ex-fighters would have benefitted from the ammunition, and this information came from one of the commanders who was in Vahun, sorry, Voinjama, one of the commanders who was based in Voinjama. He was the one who informed one of the AFL commanders who was based in Voinjama. He was the one who informed Mosquito - I mean General Mosquito, Sam Bockarie, about the said ammunition and he was the one who coordinated it with him together with one Sellay who was a signal commander.

  • Who is "he" in this context? You're using the word "he", "he". Who are you referring to?

  • Mosquito. Mosquito appointed Sellay to be the foreman because Sellay hailed from that Voinjama area, and at the same time Sellay was an NPFL fighter, and he was used to most of the fighters in that area, so that's why he was made the leader. But seldom Mosquito would send other commanders like Kennedy, sometimes he will send JR. JR was Foday Sankoh's bodyguard. They were different people he will send to go and receive those materials from Vahun or Voinjama or Kolahun area.

  • And finally just to be clear, you said yesterday that you yourself went on one of these trips to Voinjama, just once. Is that correct?

  • Yes. I went there once myself in person to collect materials, together with Shabado, Foday and others. I can recall.

  • And you said yesterday that you yourself did not have cash for these materials. Is that correct?

  • Yes, I did not transact any cash business but I saw cash.

  • Who did you see cash with?

  • With Sam Bockarie at the time when he gave it to Kennedy to go and meet Sellay.

  • Now on your particular trip did you see any cash, your trip to Voinjama?

  • No, the trip that I made to Voinjama I did not see any cash. I did not go with any cash personally and I did not see money that was for the ammunition business, besides my personal lunch that was on me.

  • And the group you were with, did they obtain anything?

  • Yes. You mean those of us who moved from Buedu to go and receive the materials? Yes, the vehicle that we went with, we brought it back, we were able to get some ammunition. Some of them were in bags, rice bags, empty rice bags, they were put into them and we brought them to Mosquito.

  • Mr Santora, did the witness say besides my personal lunch that was with me?

  • That's what I thought he said and I can clarify what he meant.

  • I think it might have been the interpreter's accent. I thought the interpreter said personal launch.

  • I will clarify it:

  • Mr Witness, I asked you about whether you saw any cash on your trip to Voinjama and you said no, you did not go with any cash personally and you did not see any money for that, that was for ammunition business besides my personal lunch? Or what did you say? My personal what?

  • Personal money that I had with me for lunch. That's what I'm referring to. My personal lunch. But that particular trip, I did not deliver any money to anybody and I did not see anybody receiving money from another.

  • You mentioned somebody named JR?

  • What was JR's nationality?

  • He was a Sierra Leonean. He was a Sierra Leonean.

  • And do you know his real name?

  • No, I don't recall his full name. JR Vandi, Junior Vandi, but I don't recall his full name. Junior Vandi.

  • Now, Mr Witness, we're going to continue where we left off from yesterday, and when we left off yesterday you had just started telling the Court about your last trip to Monrovia before the 6 January invasion of Freetown, and you said you went approximately you thought early December and you went with Mosquito, Rashid, Pa Rogers and Eddie Kanneh amongst the crew that went on this trip. Do you recall starting to tell the Court about that yesterday?

  • Yes.

  • I'd like you to go ahead now and slowly - I'm going to ask you to slowly describe this trip for the Court. Again I'm going to emphasise to you that you take your time when you explain this, okay?

  • Yes. I do recall sometime in early December myself, Sam Bockarie, the late SYB Rogers who was the People's War Council chairman, Rashid, Eddie Kanneh, among others, among other people, those of us who travelled to Monrovia. The trip that we made to Monrovia was to escort Sam Bockarie because he, Sam Bockarie, was supposed to travel to Libya, initially what he told us. He, Sam Bockarie, what he told us, he said according to the discussion he had had with Benjamin that he was to go and receive some materials, I mean ammunition. But when we arrived in Liberia the course changed and that particular movement was diverted to Ouagadougou, Burkina Faso. Sam Bockarie, Eddie Kanneh and Pa Rogers went to Burkina Faso, to the best of my knowledge.

  • I'm just going to intervene one moment, Mr Witness. You said that initially you were told by Sam Bockarie that he was supposed to travel to Libya, that he had had a discussion with Benjamin and that he was going to receive some materials and he was supposed to travel to Libya. Is that correct?

  • Yes.

  • Where did you learn this? Where were you when you learned this from Sam Bockarie?

  • It was in Buedu. I was in Buedu right behind Sam Bockarie's house where his satellite phone was installed, where he used to install his satellite phone, and I met him there. He was sitting by his phone together with some of his bodyguards who were around him and some other people.

  • Now you said then that when we arrived in Liberia the course changed and that particular movement was diverted to Ouagadougou. What do you mean when you say when you arrived in Liberia the course changed?

  • Well, instead of Sam Bockarie going to Libya he said the Papay had told him that the ammunition had been brought to Burkina Faso, so he was now to go and receive the ammunition from Burkina Faso.

  • When you say in this context the Papay, who are you referring to?

  • And just describe sequentially what happened. You said that when you arrived the course changed but then you said, of Sam Bockarie, "He said the Papay had told him that the ammunition had been brought to Burkina Faso." Do you know when this happened?

  • Well, it was in December. December 19 --

  • Let me rephrase the question. Do you know when the Papay told Sam Bockarie that the ammunition had been brought to Burkina Faso? When did it happen in terms of the course of your trip?

  • It was only after we had reached in Monrovia. That was when I knew about that, that everything --

  • How did you learn about that?

  • It was Mosquito who directly told me.

  • Mr Santora, the witness was about to tell us which year this December was and he didn't finish.

  • Again just to - clarify the time frame again?

  • Now go ahead and I won't intervene. Just go ahead and sequentially say what happened. So you arrived in Monrovia and what happened then? Where specifically did you arrive to?

  • When we got to Monrovia I was at Benjamin's place throughout the trip waiting for Mosquito. I waited on him in Monrovia and he went and returned. I was in Monrovia at Benjamin's house using Base 1 to collect information from the front lines, because I was coordinating with the front line all of the times, and Mosquito used to call on the phone, on the telephone line, to get information from me directly pertaining to what was going on at the front line and that was the reason why Mosquito travelled with me to go to Monrovia; so he would be getting information.

  • Where was Mosquito calling you on the phone from, do you know?

  • I may be wrong but I'm not sure that he said Mosquito was calling him. He said Mosquito used to call on the phone, on the telephone line. Yes, he did say to get information from me. I'm sorry, I've missed it.

  • Do you know where Mosquito was calling you from?

  • Yes. Mosquito was calling me from Burkina Faso.

  • And how do you know that?

  • He told me. When he arrived, that is Mosquito, he called on the telephone and he spoke with Sunlight and Sunlight called me and I spoke to him directly. He said he had reached his destination. And even before he left he had told me that they were going to Burkina.

  • Now, I just want to clarify again what exactly - how did it happen that the course changed?

  • Well, that one is for those in the higher echelons because I don't know exactly why the course was diverted.

  • So when you first arrived in Monrovia where did Sam Bockarie go, when you first arrived?

  • When we arrived in Monrovia I was at Benjamin's and Sam Bockarie and Benjamin used to go out. They would go out for the whole day and sometimes when he would return he would tell me that they met with Papay briefly and sometimes - when we were in Monrovia even before he would go out he will not come back to Benjamin for the whole day at times, except the following morning, because we spent up to 72 hours in Monrovia before Sam Bockarie took off for Ouagadougou.

  • When you say we spent up to 72 hours, who spent up to 72 hours in Monrovia before taking off to Ouagadougou?

  • Myself, Rashid - myself, Rashid, Shabado and some of Mosquito's bodyguards with whom he travelled.

  • Who specifically actually went on the trip with Sam Bockarie, do you know?

  • Well, from the RUF side I recall late Pa Rogers and Eddie Kanneh. They were the ones who travelled with Sam Bockarie.

  • Is that to Ouagadougou or to Monrovia initially? Travelled to where?

  • I'm asking you about the trip that Sam Bockarie took to Ouagadougou. Is that what you're referring to - well, go ahead and say the people that you know travelled to Ouagadougou.

  • The people who went with Sam Bockarie to Ouagadougou were the late SYB Rogers and Eddie Kanneh.

  • Those are the two I know of from the RUF. If any other person was there I don't know about that person.

  • And how long were they gone for?

  • They spent up to a week. They spent up to a week in Ouagadougou.

  • And during that week where did you stay?

  • I stayed in Monrovia at Benjamin Yeaten's house.

  • And you said that you were receiving calls on the phone from Sam Bockarie during the course while he was on this trip to Ouagadougou. How often was that happening?

  • He called me about three times from Ouagadougou. About three times.

  • And were there any other discussions aside from what you've already said about reporting the situation?

  • Well, during his stay in Ouagadougou, is that what you mean? During his stay in Ouagadougou most of the discussions we had was for me to give him updates from the front lines. If there was any problem I should tell him where there was that problem or where there was no problem. That was the topic of discussion.

  • How were you getting information to send to Sam Bockarie about the front lines at this time?

  • I communicated on the RUF radio net every day. Every day I communicated on the RUF radio net. I followed the various activities in the front lines.

  • Now, you said they were gone approximately a week. What happened when they returned? Describe what happened.

  • Well I stayed at Benjamin's house right up to the time Mosquito and others returned and, when they returned, he returned at night. On that very night I did not see him and the following day he came to Benjamin's house in the evening. He was sitting in the studio for a short time, that is at Base 1, to get information from me, and he called Issa and the two of them spoke and Mosquito gave me instruction to send a message to the front line to some of the commanders to come and meet him in Buedu - to come and meet him, Mosquito, in Buedu. From there, that very evening we took off together with Mosquito. All of us who had come with Mosquito took off again to go back to Buedu.

  • Okay, before you go on, before you actually left, when the group returned from Ouagadougou who was in the group, do you recall?

  • Well at Benjamin's house, where they met me, Mosquito was in a group with Benjamin, Eddie, General Ibrahim.

  • Who is General Ibrahim?

  • General Ibrahim, I knew him to be a Gambian who used to help Foday Sankoh coordinate the RUF affairs outside of Sierra Leone since 1996 during the Abidjan accord - even before the Abidjan accord.

  • Do you know why he was present at this particular moment when the group returned from Ouagadougou?

  • Well General Ibrahim, because he used to talk to Mosquito before that time on the radio - I mean on the sat phone. General Ibrahim and Mosquito used to talk on the sat phone and most times General Ibrahim coordinated things for the RUF in other areas, sometimes with Charles Taylor, sometimes in Burkina, sometimes in Libya. He was the one who made those trips on behalf of the RUF, most of the trips that he made.

  • When this group returned, when Sam Bockarie returned with Eddie and Pa Rogers, you said that night when Sam Bockarie initially returned you didn't see him until the next day. Is that correct?

  • Mr Santora, did the witness actually say that Pa Rogers returned? I know he said he went but, if you look at the names given at line 15 of page 19, I don't see Pa Rogers in it.

  • Again we're on a different font, but I take your representation and I'll clarify it.

  • When Sam Bockarie returned with the group and you said you didn't see him that night, but you didn't see him until the next day. Is that correct?

  • Then you said you left Monrovia. Did you leave that same day?

  • After Sam Bockarie arrived at where you were staying and you spoke with him, do you know if he did anything else before leaving?

  • Well, I don't recall any other thing that he did. It was just that when he was at the radio station, that is Base 1, in a casual discussion with Benjamin and Eddie Kanneh, at that time Pa Rogers was not with them. The time that I'm referring to now, this incident in the radio room, Pa Rogers was not with them when they went to Benjamin's place. They were discussing the material - the ammunition - that Mosquito had brought and that the first target to hit was to be Kono and Tongo. Those two were to be the priority, to hit Tongo and Kono.

  • Who was having this discussion?

  • Sam Bockarie, Benjamin Yeaten and Eddie Kanneh. The three of them, those I can recall now. The three of them.

  • How do you know that?

  • I was - they were sitting in the radio room discussing and I was sitting there close by. I was sitting together with them in the radio room.

  • And where was SYB Rogers, just to be clear, do you know?

  • I only saw SYB Rogers at the time we were ready to go back.

  • I want you to now describe the part - sorry, you were going to say something.

  • I did not know where he was at the time Mosquito and others got to the office - I mean the house of BY, Benjamin Yeaten. I only saw SYB Rogers at the time we were about to move.

  • Now I want you to describe the departure when you left, okay? Where did you exactly leave from?

  • We took off from Benjamin Yeaten's - from Benjamin's house. It was late in the evening, around 7.30 to 8 in the evening, with four vehicles - sorry, two jeeps. On the way from Monrovia we saw two trucks, two big trucks, that is at the outskirts of Monrovia, that was loaded with ammunition of different types and all of us --

  • Before you continue, who was present with you when you left Benjamin Yeaten's house in the two vehicles?

  • When we were moving I was there, Sam was there, Rashid was there, Zigzag Marzah was there, Jungle was there and some of Sam Bockarie's securities, all of us who had come with Sam. Like for the securities, we met them on the way with the ammunition. They were ahead.

  • Who was ahead? Who did you meet on the way?

  • We met Sam Bockarie's securities, together with Jungle, on the way. That is on the outskirts of Monrovia to go out of Monrovia. That was where we met me.

  • You also made a reference to Zigzag Marzah. Did you meet him, or did he leave with you from Benjamin Yeaten's house? Which one?

  • Zigzag was not with us at Benjamin's house, but it was all of us that moved together where they were waiting for us with the ammunition and so we moved together. Zigzag, Jungle and others were with the ammunition and Sam Bockarie's securities, those of whom he had travelled with.

  • Just so we don't lose track, where was Pa Rogers at this time?

  • Pa Rogers met us at Benjamin's house before all of us took off. He met us at Benjamin's house before all of us could take off.

  • And you said you met these two trucks on the outskirts of Monrovia. Can you be a little bit more specific? Do you know where more specifically?

  • Well, I did not see where they were. I just saw them and --

  • Your Honours, can the witness repeat this.

  • Mr Witness, the interpreter is not able to keep up with you. Please speak slowly and just pick up where you said, "I saw them". Continue from there.

  • Myself, Sam Bockarie and others met the trucks while we were going on the road. That is at the outskirts of Monrovia towards Kakata. Then while we were going, while we were in the vehicle, Sam and others were discussing, and even before that at the time we were moving that was the time Sam Bockarie told me that the trucks were loaded at RIA. That is before we took off from Benjamin's house. I asked him, I said, "Master, where is the material that you went for?", and he said, "They are on the way. They were loaded from the airport". That was what he explained to me, that the trucks were loaded at the Roberts International Airfield, and we continued our journey.

  • Now you said you met them with these two trucks, so is it correct that you had four vehicles total? Is that correct? Two vehicles that you left with and then two trucks?

  • Now you went then - where did you go after you met up with the trucks?

  • It was in Buedu. We went to Buedu directly.

  • Did Sam Bockarie discuss anything else? Well, first of all where exactly were you within this convoy? Who were you with?

  • Have we actually determined that they went in convoy? For all I know, their jeep could have passed the trucks.

  • How did you proceed from - from the moment when you met up with the trucks, how did you proceed to Buedu?

  • I have said it. I said all of us went together. We went in a convoy. All of us went together.

  • Where were you within this convoy?

  • Initially from the house at Benjamin Yeaten's I was in the same vehicle as Sam Bockarie, but when we got to where the trucks were I transferred into one of the other vehicles and Zigzag Marzah transferred to Sam Bockarie and they were all in the same vehicle and we continued the journey.

  • Now during the course of your journey from Benjamin Yeaten's house to meet the trucks, did Sam Bockarie discuss anything else?

  • You know, I cannot remember everything that we discussed, but one important thing that we discussed in the vehicle was about the ammunition that he had gone for that all of us were expecting. That is what I asked him about. I said, "Master" - that is Mosquito. That was another name that we referred to him casually, "Master". And he told me - he, Mosquito, told me - that the ammunition was on the way. They had loaded them at the Roberts International Airport.

  • Okay. Now, what happened when you arrived back in Buedu?

  • When we arrived in Buedu, the commanders that Mosquito had sent a message for we arrived together with some of them almost at the same time. Issa came - no, Issa came after Mosquito had arrived. CO Isaac came, Eagle came and Saddam came. He called the various commanders from the various front lines; that is Mosquito called the commanders. And the ammunition we went with, he distributed them amongst them. He sent some towards Njama area, that is towards Joru. Joru is a road leading towards Kenema, Zimmi and when you get to Joru that is the Njama area there. We had a target there. And the other one is he sent some to Eagle and others in their defensive area. He sent some towards Tongo, that is to attack Tongo, and the heaviest portion was sent to Kono and the Tongo area. Issa was the one who came to receive the materials for Tongo and Kono. And he and Issa together with Akim and others, because Akim and others came with Issa in that meeting, Akim Turay, he was an SLA, they were the ones who strategised that attack. I cannot recall now everybody who was there, but there were other commanders.

  • When you say Issa and Akim strategised, what do you mean?

  • It was not only Issa and Akim. It was Issa, Akim, the other commanders who had come with them and Mosquito, as to how they were to carry out the attack on Kono and Tongo without delay. As to how the attacks on Kono and Tongo were to be carried out without delay, and how they should do it to be successful, and that was the strategy that he invited them for to discuss.

  • Where did this discussion occur, do you know?

  • I was not with them during the discussions.

  • So how do you know what they discussed?

  • Well, when we arrived - before ever we went even I had sent a message to them for a short briefing. When we arrived, the following morning Mosquito was still sending a message. When I went to the radio room I met a message - I saw a message in the book that the other people should hasten up to come for the meeting.

  • You have already described various radio locations in Buedu. Which particular radio room are you referring to here? When you say when you went to the radio room "I saw a message in the book".

  • Call sign Bravo Zulu 4. That is Mosquito's radio station. The one opposite Mosquito.

  • So what happened then?

  • All the commanders left, the commanders left for their respective areas and from there - you know, because we went with ammunitions and morale booster, like alcohol, you know, morale booster like a lot of alcohol and rice, fuel, and some other necessary stuff, condiments, let me say. Condiments, yeah. All the commanders left for their respective areas of responsibility.

  • Where did these morale boosters come from, do you know?

  • The morale boosters were in the vehicles that we went with. Like the jeep in which I was had a lot of alcohol in it, and when we arrived in Buedu Mosquito sent to buy a lot of marijuana and alcoholic drinks called cane juice; locally distilled alcoholic drink. We called it Omolay. And he bought marijuana and cigarettes and some English alcohol that he brought from Monrovia. Those were for the commanders and he distributed it amongst them and all of them left for their respective areas of responsibility.

  • After they left what happened?

  • When the commanders left for their respective areas of responsibility Issa organised his men to launch an immediate attack on Kono and some people, like Akim and others, they went towards Tongo. CO Isaac was around the Njama area and there was a kind of general attack I should say in all the front lines in the Kono and Kenema districts. There was an all-out attack.

  • So when this all-out attack started where you were?

  • Okay. And just to put a time - if you can approximate a time frame as to when this general attack started. Approximately a month and year.

  • It was in December. The all-out attack was in December. Roughly, I can say it was around the 15th to the 20th. Sometimes around that actually, that those attacks commenced. It was around 15 to 20 December that those attacks commenced, in 1998.

  • Now after this general attack started did anything else happen in Buedu that you recall around this time?

  • Yes. When the general attack started Mosquito was in constant contact with Five-Zero on a daily basis and he was monitoring the front lines to know what was going on and it was that attack that led to the capture of Kono and our men were able to capture Kono up to Makeni when Gullit and others had already gone ahead towards Waterloo area, and it was that attack which went on up to the time for the 6 January when we entered Freetown.

  • Okay. Before 6 January you mentioned Sam Bockarie was in contact with 50. Is that right?

  • Yes.

  • Actually, in fairness, you said Five-Zero.

  • Just to be clear, who are you referring to?

  • That is Benjamin Yeaten. That was one of his code names.

  • Okay. Describe what you mean when you say constant contact with Five-Zero. What exactly are you talking about? And this is the period that I'm referring to here is after the meeting with the commanders but before the 6 January attack?

  • By that I mean that after the fall of Kono Mosquito contacted Benjamin and he informed him about the capture of Kono. I recall that I was in fact the first person who received the message after Kono had fallen to us, and when I went and gave him the message he himself realised that Kono had actually fallen to us, because the fighting in Kono lasted for about two days before Kono fell to us. And after the fall of Kono to us I received a message from Issa and I gave it to Mosquito and Issa told us that Kono was under perfect control and he said in fact the RUF fighters were now proceeding towards Tongo and he said some other fighters like Bai Bureh and others, Bai Bureh, Morris Kallon and others, they were now heading towards the Masingbi area and he said from Kono --

  • Mr Witness, you're going too fast again. Slowly. There's a lot of names that have to be recorded. Continue please, picking up from when you were saying they were heading towards the Masingbi area. And incidentally, you have moved off from the original question and I mentioned this to you yesterday and the day before.

  • I'm just asking you about - I'm asking you what was going on. I just asked you about the contact between Sam Bockarie and Benjamin - and 50.

  • Well, the content of the message that I received and I took to Mosquito, that caused him to call Benjamin at once, was what I was trying to explain. After the larger part of the Kono District has fallen to us I received this message directly and I gave it to Mosquito and I was there when he decided to call Benjamin. I was standing by him when Mosquito said that he was going to contact Benjamin Yeaten at once and inform him and, indeed, I stood by him when he contacted Benjamin Yeaten on the sat phone and he informed him that Kono was now under our perfect control.

  • Okay. Now you said before, I'm sorry, Madam President, one moment. You said before constant contact and you've only described one message. When you say constant contact, what do you mean?

  • That is to say that Benjamin too used to call Mosquito most often and most often it was in fact Benjamin who used to call Mosquito to ask him about the updates from the front line, to ask about how the mission was going on. Sometimes, I can say at least if I spent up to three to four hours with Mosquito on a daily basis, Mosquito must receive a message from Benjamin. And at the time the Kono attack was going on I can say almost Mosquito and - we and Mosquito spent almost the rest of the day together because he did not allow himself far off from the radio at all.

  • Now, between the time you returned back from Monrovia from this last trip up until the 6 January invasion of Freetown, did Sam Bockarie receive any visitors?

  • Yes, yes. When we arrived from Monrovia, and even before Issa and others went to their respective front lines, there was one particular night and on that night, around 10 to 11, I had just come from the monitoring station and when I - Tiger by then had just received a message from the front line and he was about to take that message to Mosquito. And we were there when we saw two vehicles enter and when those vehicles entered the vehicle - the vehicle stopped and when the people alighted, the people who were in the vehicle, they went straight to Mosquito. And by then, when I came to give that message to Mosquito, I met Five-Zero sitting together with Mosquito behind Mosquito's house. They were sitting there and they were discussing. And when I got there I gave Mosquito the message and after reading the message he said okay. He said he will attend to the message later. And I heard him and Five-Zero discussing. They were discussing behind the house and I saw that Mosquito and Five-Zero again took a stroll to the front door and they were taking a stroll towards the Dawa Road, he and Five-Zero, and they were discussing when they went along the Dawa Road. And then the vehicles that were brought by Five-Zero followed them along the line and I saw one of Mosquito's bodyguard reverse and came back to ask that the vehicles follow them.

  • Mr Witness, many times have I reminded you this morning and yesterday. Speak slowly and stick to the question asked. Now speak slowly and, as I said before, pause at the end of each sentence. Do you understand?

  • Mr Witness, if you see us here trying to signal you to go slowly, when we do this it means slow down. We don't wish to interrupt but we are asking you to slow down, but you keep ignoring us completely.

  • Please proceed, Mr Santora.

  • Now, I will just - again I'm going to also remind you, Mr Witness, to try to - actually, if you speak slower, the quicker this whole thing will go so we don't have to go back. So if you can try and remember that the translators are trying to keep up with you, okay?

  • Okay, okay.

  • Now you said - you were describing an incident when you saw 50 sitting --

  • You saw Five-Zero sitting together with Mosquito behind Mosquito's house. First of all, who do you mean by Five-Zero?

  • And where exactly were they sitting?

  • They were sitting in Mosquito's back yard.

  • And who else was present, if anyone?

  • Listen to the question. I'm talking about when you were there when you saw Benjamin Yeaten and Sam Bockarie sitting at Sam Bockarie's house, who else - actually sitting in the back yard. Who else was present?

  • I saw some Liberian SSS. I saw some people who were in Liberian SSS uniform.

  • When you say "SSS uniform", can you describe what these uniforms looked like?

  • Now, you were describing that you saw them. What were you doing there?

  • I went there to give a message to Sam Bockarie.

  • How long did you remain there for?

  • I did not remain there for a long time. Just when I gave him the message he told me, he said, "Okay, I will attend to this message later", and then I went back to the station.

  • Okay. And then you were talking, before you stopped, about seeing Benjamin Yeaten walking. Is that correct?

  • Yes, they were walking.

  • Where were you when this was happening?

  • I was sitting on the veranda where the station was. I can easily describe the scenario. For instance, here is Mosquito's house across there and we are sitting here in the veranda and when the two of them came outside I saw them taking a stroll towards the Dawa Road. That is the same route that Benjamin and others had used to enter. That is the road going towards the Liberian side. I saw the two of them, they stood there for a long time and they were discussing, and then I saw one of Mosquito's bodyguards reverse. He came back to ask the vehicles that Five-Zero had brought to drive and meet them down there.

  • What happened then?

  • From there, Five-Zero returned to Monrovia - returned to Liberia, let me put it that way.

  • Okay. Now, before you were describing that a general attack started at some point. Was this meeting, or this visit by Benjamin Yeaten that you've described, was this before or after that general attack started?

  • The meeting took place before the attack on Kono.

  • Now, do you have any information as to what this meeting was about?

  • No, I did not get details of the meeting.

  • Aside from yourself, do you know anyone else that knew about this visit?

  • Yes. Other operators knew, like Operator Tiger he was there, and we were there and another operator from Mike November 5 called Agama, he too met us there, and then Sam's bodyguards were around. By then the ground was not overcrowded; that is Sam Bockarie's ground, it was not overcrowded. Most people who were around were his bodyguards. Just his bodyguards, they were around. It was at night, so whether there were some other people around I wouldn't have recognised everybody who was around when that said visit took place.

  • And just one final point, about how long was this visit for in terms of time?

  • From the moment Benjamin entered up to the time he left, it was about an hour. He did not spend a long time actually. He spent about an hour in Buedu.

  • Now just to be clear, because you've mentioned an individual and you may have already said it and I apologise if it's repeated. You said this individual Tiger. Who is that individual again? Do you know his real name, or her real name?

  • It was a radio operator, but I have forgotten the real name. But mostly we used to call the person operator Tiger. That was a code name - a nickname. I have forgotten the real name.

  • Were they male or --

  • And then Agama too was a radio operator.

  • And were they male, or female?

  • Mr Santora, the expression "Mike November 5" I don't think we've heard before, have we?

  • We did, although I don't remember the particular context we heard it in. I'm just checking where it came up recently. If you have a reference, I can just clarify.

  • It was referred to yesterday as one of the radio stations.

  • Right. I'm just looking for it now. If you want me to clarify the context, I will. Okay, I'll continue:

  • Now, you've made a few references already to an event called the 6 January invasion of Freetown. Do you recall making those references?

  • Let me just make it simpler. You've already referred to the 6 January 1999 invasion of Freetown. Where were you specifically on 6 January 1999?

  • And on that day what were you doing?

  • On 6 January 1999, on that particular day I was monitoring constantly. I was doing constant monitoring, Atatti and I, because by then Gbamayaji was not well. At any time Atatti received a message, I would bring the messages from the monitoring station to the transmitting station. When Atatti received messages, I would bring them to the transmitting station to inform the front line commanders about whatsoever thing that we had monitored about their own areas of responsibilities.

  • Okay, well you're referring to a transmitting station. You've made reference to two transmitting stations in Buedu. Which transmitting station are you referring to?

  • Mosquito's transmitting station.

  • And just to be clear, you yourself were taking messages from the monitoring station to the transmitting station. Is that correct?

  • Yes.

  • And is this the same monitoring station you were referring to earlier, the other day when you were testifying?

  • From your standpoint at the monitoring station and at the transmitting station, describe some of the things that you heard on this particular day, 6 January 1999?

  • On that day, 6 January 1999, we monitored so many messages from the ECOMOG forces pertaining air mission requests and also pertaining the advance of our men into the city and how the ECOMOG was to send air raids to various areas within the RUF liberated zones.

  • Okay. Aside from ECOMOG transmissions, describe what else you heard?

  • Do you mean on the radio?

  • From the monitoring station, that was what the monitoring station was purposefully there for. That was what we did, to listen to ECOMOG communications, decode those communications and take those decoded messages to the control station, or the transmitting station, where they would send them directly to the people concerned.

  • Mr Witness, listen to what the question was. The question was aside from - apart from - the ECOMOG transmissions what else did you hear?

  • Apart from the ECOMOG transmissions, I heard from the transmitting station also about the capture of certain parts of the city, Freetown.

  • Just let's stick to the transmitting station, because I think that may make it simpler. What did you hear from the transmitting station on that day, 6 January 1999?

  • I saw a message in the message logbook which said that our men had captured the State House.

  • Who are you referring to?

  • Our men who were in Freetown, the RUF/AFRC combatants who entered Freetown, and it read that they had captured the State House and certain parts of the city.

  • Who was the message from specifically, do you know?

  • Yes, the message was from Gullit and he was Black Jar. That was his code name.

  • Gullit was one of the bosses in the AFRC. He was one of the bosses in the AFRC, and Gullit was one of the most senior commanders and to be specific he was the one who led the troops that entered Freetown.

  • So who was at the transmitting station with you? Who else was there on this day, 6 January?

  • I met all the operators - in fact almost all the operators by then were in the transmitting station. Like Seibatu, Tiger, Tourist. Almost all the operators were in the station on that particular day.

  • Now on that particular day what stations was the transmitting station in Buedu in contact with?

  • The transmitting station in Buedu was in contact with the various call signs within the RUF liberated zones. Like Superman, Gullit, Issa, Rambo, Akim and others, Base 1 and so on.

  • Now again I'm confining my question specifically to 6 January 1999. You said that the station you were at, the transmitting station, was in contact with Gullit. Describe what you mean by that?

  • By that I mean that Gullit was sending direct information to Mosquito's station and Mosquito's station was asking to know about the activities that were going on directly and to know the areas that had been captured and Gullit also from his side was trying to request for more materials and reinforcement from Mosquito, for Mosquito to send more reinforcements and more ammunition for them because he said they had just entered the city and they need more manpower to consolidate the grounds that they had captured and to even make further advances.

  • Now how were these messages being sent? How were they being sent?

  • The messages - well, the operators - Gullit had one of the operators with him that I knew, like Elongima and King Perry, the RUF radio operator, was there with him, Alfred Brown another RUF radio operator was there, and some other SLA operators were there with them in Freetown. So whenever Gullit sent a message the operator would write it down and code it and they would send that, and after sending it Mosquito's operators would receive that decoded form and then they would hand that over to Mosquito. So that was how the communications and the operations went on. And seldom Mosquito spoke directly with Gullit on the air regarding issues on the front line.

  • What would Mosquito speak directly with Gullit - I'm sorry, go ahead. You had something to say.

  • Yes, Mr Witness, you've got your hand up.

  • Please assist the witness. Mr Santora, if you wish to have a seat.

  • [In the absence of the witness]

  • Mr Santora, there was a name of an operator that the witness named. Something like Elongima. If you could clarify that.

  • I have it noted right here to clarify that name. There are actually two names that need to be clarified also.

  • Your Honour, I noticed that and I think the correct name is Eluguma but we will no doubt get that from the witness.

  • Thank you, Mr Munyard.

  • [In the presence of the witness]

  • Please proceed, Mr Santora.

  • Just before I continue I just want to clarify a few things, Mr Witness. I want to make sure we are picked up correctly by the transcribers. When you were describing, and I have a LiveNote reference here, although it's actually not the same as my LiveNote, but let me just ask the question. You were describing that you monitored many messages from ECOMOG forces pertaining to and did you say - what did you say? Pertaining to some type of requests?

  • Air mission requests. That was for the Alpha Jets to go around the RUF liberated zones to carry out bombings.

  • What would happen after you would hear these requests?

  • Well, we who were in the monitoring station, when we received - when we monitored such communications we would take them directly to the monitoring station and the monitoring station will send that information directly to where the mission request was going for, or the reinforcement that the enemies were asking for --

  • Mr Witness, earlier you said the monitoring station doesn't send messages, so what do you mean?

  • We would take the messages to the transmitting station, that is what I'm trying to explain.

  • And what would happen then after it was taken to the transmitting station?

  • After taking it to the transmitting station, the transmitting station was then responsible to making sure that anything that had to do with the ECOMOG troop movement to any location, they were there to ensure that such a message was transmitted to that particular target station. So it was - if it was an air mission request around Pendembu, or areas around that vicinity, they will send that message to that area so that everybody in that area would be red alert.

  • Was there a name --

  • Then I want to complete in respect of that, the air mission request. In that case what they did was, in any town where we were each and every radio station had a bell around the radio station. So at any time any station heard about Four-Four-Eight, that is enemy aircraft was coming, or you got a message that the Four-Four-Eight would have to come, the operator who was in the station should go and ring that bell immediately to put everybody - that is to say, the operator should ring that bell immediately to put everybody on red alert in your location, so that was how the messages travelled.

  • Now just two names to clarify, Mr Witness. You made a reference to somebody, a code name for Gullit. Say what you said slowly. The code name for Gullit?

  • Can you spell the second word that you said?

  • J-A-R.

  • Now you also mentioned somebody - a radio operator that was in Freetown and you called out a name and I just want to make sure it's - I am sorry, I just lost my reference.

  • It's in a section that mentions Alfred Brown and King Perry, if that helps my learned friend.

  • Thank you. It should help me:

  • You also said another one of the operators and it says Elongima but who did you say? Say the name slowly.

  • Elongima. Elongima. He was an SLA operator. And in Krio that means "I no go lef pan am". That is what it means in Krio. Elongima, "I no go lef pan am".

  • Mr Interpreter, why don't you tell us in English. Why are you repeating the Krio meaning? What does it mean in English, if you know?

  • He will react to whatsoever.

  • Please let us have the spelling.

  • Can you spell Elongima?

  • E-L-O-N-G-I-M-A. That is how I spell it.

  • Now going back to the day of 6 January, you described - you said that Sam Bockarie was in contact with Gullit. You said first of all that he was in contact through radio operators and then you said also directly, seldom directly. Now, speaking of 6 January specifically, let's start just with that day, do you remember any of the other - any discussions that occurred between them?

  • Do you mean between Sam Bockarie and Gullit?

  • Yes. Let's start with them and then I'll move to the radio operators of each, but just between them directly.

  • Okay. I monitored just one dialogue on that day between Gullit and Sam Bockarie, because by then I was juggling between the monitoring and the transmission station because any time I got a message when I went to the transmission station I will read the logbook and see the messages. But there was a dialogue that took place between Mosquito and Gullit when Mosquito was telling Gullit to try to coordinate with Rambo and General Issa concerning manpower, concerning reinforcement, so that Rambo will move faster and meet them in Freetown. That was the portion of the discussion that I met them on.

  • Now, you said earlier that you were often listening to the BBC during the course of the time you were in Buedu. Is that correct?

  • Were you listening to the BBC on 6 January 1999?

  • Do you recall any of the programmes - any of the news you heard from BBC on that day?

  • Yes, I recall when - I recall when one of the SLAs entered State House and called the BBC and he said that we - and when I say "we" I mean the RUF/AFRC. He said that, "We have entered Freetown", and that we were in control of the State House and that was just one amongst the others.

  • I'd ask now that what is the recording behind tab 15 be played for the courtroom.

  • Madam Court Officer, could you implement that please.

  • Just let me verify it to make sure I have the right recording. Yes, it's tab 15 marked otherwise as - actually it says "Track 2" here and it's marked as D0000517, running from 333 to 928.

  • Mr Santora, is this another of these CDs that have got more than one piece of information or transmission on them?

  • I believe in response - and I was going to address this actually after the adjournment because of what Justice Sebutinde said yesterday - with regard to the particular recording yesterday we did isolate that pursuant to the Court's instruction and I believe we have these all now isolated as separate entities.

  • By way of foundation to what we're just about to hear, I'm wondering that you've asked the witness what he heard on the BBC. Are you now going to play a recording of the BBC, or you haven't established whether he recorded what he heard on the BBC?

  • I'm not seeking to establish if he recorded it or not, because this is not from any collection of his --

  • So that confirms my question. What is the foundation for us listening to this thing that you're about to listen to?

  • The foundation is that he has already said that he's listened to BBC repeatedly in the time that he was in Buedu, he said that he listened to the BBC on 6 January on that particular day and the foundation is that he's described some of the contents he heard from that news programme on 6 January 1999.

  • So are we about to hear the news programme?

  • Well, of course after hearing it I was going to have the witness attest to what he's hearing and what it was and what it is. I of course don't want to say what we're about to hear.

  • Please pause, Mr Santora. Mr Munyard?

  • That is exactly what I was waiting for. This could not be a better example of a leading question in the form of putting a broadcast to a witness and then saying, "Is that what you heard?", instead of establishing from the witness what he says he heard.

  • This is a very good example. The very last witness I had this incident occur on, which was TF1-275, it was the Defence's position that the Prosecution had to establish before anything was put to the witness his memory as to what he heard and when and then it was put to the witness. I followed the exact same procedure that was used through TF1-275, establishing that foundation.

    Now the alternative, which Defence objected to last time at TF1-275, would have been to not lay any foundation in this particular incident, play the recording and then ask the witness about the recording. The Defence cannot have it both ways in this particular instance. They're asking for either to not have any foundation laid, or to have a lot of foundation laid which then they call leading.

  • Mr Santora, when the Defence plays for a witness it is to test his credibility. When you play a tape for the witness, you must lay foundation. You are giving evidence. The aims and purposes are different.

  • No, I completely concur with that, Justice Sebutinde, but in the Prosecution's submission we have laid more than sufficient foundation at this point with this particular public broadcast to play this to this witness.

  • Allow me to confer.

  • [Trial Chamber conferred]

  • Your Honours, before you reach a final decision may I raise - it is a point of law, a fundamental point of law, and this fundamental point of law is that the burden of proof lies on the Prosecution and therefore they have to take the proper steps in the proper way to obtain this evidence from the witness. The Defence are in a very different position when cross-examining a witness.

    Secondly, my learned friend says quite wrongly in this instance that the Defence are trying to have it both ways. We're not. There's a difference between putting a recording to a witness in cross-examination and the Prosecution trying to prove something, but the Prosecution in this Court - as I'm sure in all courts throughout the world, domestic and international - is an indivisible body. It is not right - and I will develop this on a later occasion. It's not right for the Prosecution to try to have it both ways, or rather to have it different ways in different trials, and I'm putting down a marker there for future argument as to the evidence that they're leading in this trial as opposed to evidence on the same subject of a contradictory nature.

    But my first point is that the burden of proof is on them and they therefore have to conduct this examination-in-chief in the proper way and not in a leading way.

  • May I just briefly respond, please, since a certain representation was made that was incorrect. The Prosecution did not say that this was equivocating what is done in direct examination to what is done in cross-examination. The reference I was referring to was TF1-275 and it was on the direct examination of that witness where Defence objected to insufficient foundation being laid and made - and their submission was that this type of foundation should be laid before putting a broadcast to the witness. This is exactly the procedure that was followed in this particular instance asking the witness prior to anything being played to him about his knowledge about broadcasts, about his knowledge about broadcasts on this particular day and about the contents of those broadcasts. And when I said Defence was seeking to have it both ways I was referring to their objections within a direct examination, not during the course of a cross-examination, and so my learned colleague's submission about burden of proof I submit is irrelevant. It's moot in this point.

  • Well, Mr Santora, I can't remember what was said in the issue that arose in regard to witness 275. Why don't we just deal with the circumstances of this witness? If you want to go back to witness 275 you'll have to refer us to the transcript and, in fact, we're going to lose a lot of time over that. We're going to have to relitigate any arguments that were put forward and resolved in relation to 275, none of which I can remember, and so you'll pull the trial up if you want us to relitigate that instance. Let's just stick to this witness.

    Now, what do you say that you have adduced from this witness that enables him to give relevant evidence about the tape that you want to play to the Court?

  • The witness has testified that while he was in Buedu from early 1998 to April 1999 he was listening to the BBC and other public broadcasts on an almost daily basis. The witness has also testified that on a particular day, 6 January 1999, he was listening to the BBC. Finally the witness has testified to some of the content of those broadcasts that he had heard on the BBC on that particular day, 6 January 1999.

  • And where is the evidence connecting that evidence to what's on the tape?

  • Well, what is on the tape - in other words I'm not going to testify from the Bench as to what is on the tape. The contents of the tape will be established through this witness.

  • Well, that's after he's heard it. I'd be able to tell you what's on the tape after I've heard it.

  • But, your Honours, I'm not asking him to testify to the content as to the truth or the veracity of this particular broadcast. What this exhibit is being put through this witness for is simply for him to - whether he recognises this as what he heard on 6 January 1999. He either will or he won't recognise it.

  • Well, that's exactly what Mr Munyard is objecting to. You haven't adduced one word from this witness as to what he did hear verbatim and how that's going to relate to something that's on a tape.

  • To complement what Justice Lussick has said - and I'm reading from the transcript of the answer of the witness at page 45 and on my font it's line 7. He says, "Yes, I recall when one of the SLAs entered State House and called the BBC and he said we - when I say 'we' I mean the RUF/AFRC. He said that 'We have entered Freetown' and that we are in control of the State House and that was just one amongst others.

    Now, that is all he's said. Now, when I look at behind tab 15 that you have referred us to there is transcripts of about no less than four pages. I don't know how much of that you want to play on the tape, but all that the witness has said is in one sentence, "We have entered State House". Now you want to lead him in relation to the rest of that statement, or is he able to tell us a bit more of what he heard? You haven't asked him. He said that was just one of amongst others. What others, before you lead him by having him listen to the others? What others did he hear, before you tell him?

  • Well, we are only seeking - I understand what you're saying, Justice Sebutinde. It is just in terms of how much further to go in terms of - earlier the objection was that these questions by me eliciting this evidence the way I was doing, the objection was that it was leading and so I'm at a loss here --

  • No, it was playing the tape that would be leading.

  • Playing the tape before hearing what the witness recalls. There's nothing wrong with the witness giving his evidence and then the tape being played. That's the second time this week that I've assisted the Prosecution in how to conduct their case and it really is the last time.

  • Well, it's not about assisting in this context. The comment is not appropriate.

  • Mr Santora, please do not enter into a dispute in the well of the Court.

  • No, I'm sorry, I should address the Bench. Your Honour, the question - I did ask the question as to specifically what he remembers hearing. He mentions a particular point of the content of this broadcast. It is the primary point of the content that the Prosecution is seeking to admit.

    Now, the broadcast for a lot of reasons should be kept as a whole as one broadcast. We're not going to break up this one broadcast, but the witness has already testified to the content of this broadcast on this day.

  • In one sentence. And that confirms what we're telling you, that he must lay more foundation by telling the Court, before he hears the tape, what "amongst others" he heard. What are those other things that he heard. He hasn't said he doesn't remember; you just haven't asked him. Before you make him listen to those others please elicit from him what others he heard.

  • Well, just to clarify, it's only one broadcast at this point. I see the time so it's perhaps going to have to wait, but it's only one particular broadcast that we're asking to be played. So I will ask about others at the appropriate moment but --

  • Not other broadcasts, other things that he heard in that broadcast.

  • Mr Santora, let us short circuit this dispute and lay more foundation.

  • Mr Witness, you talked about a broadcast that you heard on 6 January 1999. Can you recall as much as you can about that broadcast?

  • To the best of my memory on that particular day there were so many broadcasts that took place about the attack on Freetown by the AFRC/RUF. And even though I wouldn't recall all, I don't really know, but maybe the things that I will have to say here you will have some on the transcript that you are talking about now or maybe on some other players that you might have. But I recall that one of the broadcasts by a journalist that I recall - like I said, one of the AFRC men who broadcast that the AFRC/RUF had taken over State House and the journalists were trying to ask him whether we were using civilians as human shields to be able to enter Freetown and whether we were burning houses and killing people. I recall when the journalist asked him such questions.

    I think those were some of the things that I listened to on that particular day. Those are some of the things. I wouldn't recall everything actually, but to the best of my memory those are some of the things that I recall.

  • Obviously I can't request to have the tape played at this point because of the time so --

  • Yes, we've been alerted that the tape is just about to run out, Mr Santora.

    Mr Witness, we are now going to take the mid-morning adjournment for 30 minutes. We will be resuming court at 12 o'clock. Please adjourn court until 12.

  • [Break taken at 11.30 a.m.]

  • [Upon resuming at 12.00 p.m.]

  • Thank you, Madam President. I now request that the recording behind tab 15 be played for the Court.

  • Please have the tape played, Madam Court Officer.

  • [Audio clip played to the Court]

  • Mr Witness, do you recognise that broadcast?

  • Where were you when you heard that broadcast?

  • And do you recall the day that was broadcast?

  • Now, where was Sam Bockarie, if you know, when this broadcast was played?

  • Sam Bockarie was in Buedu.

  • Do you know if he was in the vicinity to hear this broadcast as well?

  • Sorry, is my learned friend asking does he know if he heard it? That's all that he is able to say because he can't say whether or not - if the man was in the vicinity, that doesn't necessarily mean that he did hear it.

  • Do you know if Sam Bockarie heard the broadcast?

  • And what, if any, was his reaction?

  • When Sam heard the broadcast I did not see him in a bad mood. The only thing I observed, you know, through the discussion that they had together with Rashid and others, was that, you know, he was just grumbling that maybe Gullit and others would want to turn themselves into presidents in Freetown. That was the nagging about. And on the same day it was then that Sam Bockarie and Gullit spoke on the radio for Sam Bockarie to reinforce Gullit and others with manpower and ammunition.

  • Do you know if the communication between Sam Bockarie and Gullit occurred before or after this broadcast?

  • Before this broadcast Gullit had already been sending messages that Freetown had fallen and that they were at the State House.

  • Sorry, could we have a time for the broadcast then because I am looking at the document in tab 15 and it has 06/01/99 then in brackets 24:13. Now I know 24:13 isn't technically a 24-hour clock style, but I had assumed that 24:13 was a reference to a time. 24:13 would have to be in the early hours of the morning, even though that would normally be 00:13. I wonder if the Prosecution could help us, through the witness, as to what time the broadcast was.

  • Just to assist my colleague, I don't think 24:13 is referring to a time. I think it's a duration.

  • I am sure that's right, but we haven't had 24 minutes 13 seconds worth. That's why I wondered what it was about. If we could just find out from the witness what time the broadcast was, if he can now say.

  • Again I defer to you, Madam President. It can be asked in cross-examination of course, or if Madam President is inclined to have me ask it now.

  • In the light of the evidence about the telephone conversations between Gullit and Sam Bockarie given by the witness it may be helpful to know where they stand in relation to this broadcast, so if we can determine when he heard this.

  • This broadcast, Mr Witness, that you just heard from the BBC, do you remember what time of the day that was, can you recall? To the best of your ability can you recall?

  • Well, I can recall that after the conversation between Gullit and Sam Bockarie it did not take up to two hours when this broadcast was made.

  • During the course of the broadcast the interviewee referred to a combined force of the AFRC/RUF. Do you remember that?

  • During the course of the broadcast the person that was being interviewed referred to a combined force of the AFRC/RUF. Do you recall hearing that?

  • Yes, yes.

  • What was Sam Bockarie's reaction to that, if any, when he heard that on the broadcast?

  • Sam did not have any mixed feelings because he already had information, he had information already at hand. Actually there had been some minor problems that had been existing between us and Gullit, that is RUF and the AFRC. That was Sam's concern. That was the only time that he was grumbling. Even before they entered Freetown and even when he received the message in the morning, that was when Sam was saying that. He said maybe Gullit and others would want to - maybe they would change this time around to cooperate if at all they didn't go there to seize power, they wouldn't want to be greedy and take power on their own.

    And Sam Bockarie assured Gullit that Rambo was very close to him on his way to join him in the city and that Rambo was on his way to join him in the city and at that time late Rambo and others were around the Masiaka area, going towards Freetown.

  • On that broadcast there was an individual named TAB Yaya, former PLO-2. Do you know who that is?

  • No, I don't know him in person and I don't know much about him.

  • Now, there is a reference to Pademba Road prisoners. What do you know about Pademba Road prisoners during the 6 January invasion?

  • After Gullit and others had captured Freetown, it was the following morning that he sent a message and it was King Perry who transmitted the message that they had released many people from the prisons and that they had released many of the political detainees who were held prisoners, together with some other people. But when they got to Pademba Road they could not see Pa Sankoh, but that they were able to release some other people but they did not see Pa Sankoh. The message was sent to Mosquito.

    After Mosquito received the message he told Five-Zero, I mean Benjamin, that the men had entered the city but they could not see the Pa, I mean Pa Sankoh, and that they did not know where Pa Sankoh had been taken to. Among the people who were released were like the late ex-President Momoh, Victor Foh and others among other renown Sierra Leone politicians who were in the prisons.

    And Mosquito informed Benjamin about the people who had been released and he also informed him that they could not see Pa Sankoh in the prisons and he requested for more ammunition so that they will be able to defend the city. He was asking Benjamin to send ammunition for us.

  • Now, you said that Gullit sent a message through King Perry to Sam Bockarie - sent to Mosquito - about the prisoners from Pademba Road. Is that correct?

  • Through King Perry. I mean that King Perry was the one who transmitted the message as a radio operator.

  • Then you said that after Mosquito received the message he told Five-Zero, meaning Benjamin, that the men had entered the city but they couldn't see the Pa, meaning Pa Sankoh. About how much time transpired between the time Bockarie received the message from Gullit through King Perry to the time he contacted Benjamin? How much time transpired between?

  • It was that very morning just when Sam Bockarie got the message, because at that time, while the 6 January operation was going on, we moved a bit from Sam Bockarie's house. We were no longer seated at Sam Bockarie's house where we used to sit, opposite that house. We went down towards Dawa Road. There was a barri, an old barri, where we used to sit because of air raid because there was frequently air raid by the Alpha Jet. The Alpha Jet used to raid Buedu and other areas.

  • Mr Witness, did you listen to the question? The question was about time.

  • Again I will ask you to further describe things as necessary, but just this question here, I am just asking you the time that passed - the time that elapsed from the moment Mosquito received the message from Gullit through King Perry to the time he contacted Benjamin. You said, "It was that very morning just when Sam Bockarie got the message because at that time" and then you started talking about something else. How much time transpired?

  • It was not up to one hour. It was not up to one hour.

  • And how in this particular instance did Sam Bockarie make contact with Benjamin?

  • It was through the sat phone.

  • How do you know that?

  • All of us were sitting together in the barri where we operated in the radio room.

  • And you have described what he said - some of the things he had said to Benjamin. How do you know some of the things that he said?

  • He was sitting in the chair that was not far. If you can allow me I can estimate the size of the barri. It's like from where I am sitting here to the exit at the back of the Prosecution lawyers. That was the size of the barri where he was sitting. The sat phone was - the sat phone was at one edge, one corner of the barri. And we were, that is the radio set was in the other corner of the barri.

  • Counsel has seen the witness's indication. Mr Munyard, have you seen the witness indicate from where he is sitting to the door behind Mr Koumjian?

  • I didn't, but I heard him say it so I am quite happy with that.

  • If we can stipulate a distance, that's fine. I just don't know if we have measured this before. I would be happy to stipulate an estimate.

  • Mr Witness, can you estimate the distance you have just referred to?

  • Estimate by what means? What do you mean? I don't think I have any professional means to estimate that besides the approximation that I have made, the visual example that I have set.

  • It could either stand on the record or we could ask for a stipulation of perhaps 20 metres.

  • Can I, who also has no sense of distance - can I make a suggestion that at some point somebody probably from Court staff using the tape measure just measures the distances between the witness box and various points in the courtroom so that we will have an accurate record for the future of what these distances are and that will save - apart from anything else it will save the Court staff wandering up and down with the tape measure every time it is done. Then we can use it as a template for the future.

  • We will implement that, Mr Munyard, but in the meantime --

  • In the meantime, Mr Santora, for what it's worth I would estimate the distance to be about ten metres, but I would also point out that it's not very helpful evidence of how big that barri was because theoretically it may be ten metres in that direction and it might be 50 metres wide. We just don't know, so really that particular distance from the witness to the door doesn't tell us anything about the size of the barri. It just tells us perhaps the width or the length of the barri.

  • Can you just describe the barri that you're referring to, describe it in terms of the dimensions?

  • The barri is in a square form, almost the same length and width. The length and the width are almost the same, like the distance I gave to you.

  • If I understood the evidence properly, the witness is estimating the distance between where he was sitting at the radio --

  • -- and where the satellite phone was on which Bockarie was speaking in order for us to understand how he heard the conversation on the sat phone. That's what he is trying to do, I think.

  • How far away were you from where Sam Bockarie was using the satellite phone?

  • I was sitting near the radio and he was using the satellite phone. Like after where the last chair is, at the back of the last chair at the edge of this hall. Like where I am sitting now, that is where I was and he was sitting on the other end like at the back of the last chair at the end of this hall.

  • You mean the empty chair at the back?

  • Yes, yes, the empty chair at the back. And how I knew also was after he had spoken to Benjamin they spoke for some time. After some time Benjamin came back to Mosquito and called him on the sat phone and he gave him instructions to make sure that he told Gullit and others to dispatch all those big names that he had mentioned, to call for them to be with him in Buedu at the headquarters, that they should not be at the front line. He said that was the instructions from Mr Taylor. And Mosquito told the operator in charge - that was one Mohamed Kabbah, I can recall, and on that very day he was the one on duty and he sent the message. I was there when Mohamed Kabbah encoded the message and sent it to Gullit and others for them to send back those people to the rear for safety.

  • Mr Witness, before I go on - and this goes with Mr Munyard's suggestion - that dimension will be - at some future moment there will be given a distance to the dimension, but for the record he pointed from his seat to the empty seat in the back corner of the Prosecution side of the courtroom.

  • Just to be completely accurate he said, "The back of the chair at the rear of the courtroom".

  • Mr Witness, just to be - you said that - first of all, how did you know he was speaking to Benjamin Yeaten? How did you know Mosquito was speaking to Benjamin Yeaten?

  • After he called Benjamin and I was sitting at the other extreme edge of the corner, he asked, "Is this Five-Zero?", and he said, "Yes". He explained to him the development at the front lines and when he was talking to him he used to respond, "Yes, sir". When they were discussing, he would respond to him directly, "Yes, sir. Okay, okay, I will do that". And when Mosquito finished he told the operator directly that he had had instructions from Benjamin from above, that is Charles Taylor through Benjamin, that Benjamin had told him that the Pa had said that they should make sure that those people who had been released from Pademba Road should come to Buedu.

  • Mr Witness, when you were giving your last answer you said the following. You said, "After some time Benjamin came back to Mosquito and called him on the sat phone and he gave him instructions to make sure that he told Gullit and others to dispatch all those big names that he had mentioned to call for them to be with him in Buedu". I am going to take that down, because you used a lot of words without calling out names there, okay? First of all, starting with, "After some time Benjamin came back to Mosquito and called him", meaning who?

  • And called Benjamin. It was Benjamin who came back on the line, on the telephone line, and called Mosquito. Benjamin called Mosquito back on the sat phone.

  • Then you said, "He gave him instructions to make sure that he told Gullit and others to dispatch all those big names that he had mentioned". When you say, "He gave him instructions", who are you talking about?

  • It was Benjamin who sent the instruction to Mosquito for Mosquito to call for the people who had been released by Gullit and others from the Pademba Road Prisons to send all of them to Buedu, including ex-President Momoh.

  • "He told Gullit and others to dispatch all those big names that he had mentioned". What do you mean when you say "all those big names"?

  • Yes, all the big names. You know, like there was one Steve Bio among them. Steve Bio, Osho-Williams - Osho-Williams, Victor Foh. You know, really I cannot recall all of the names now, all of the names of the people who were released from Pademba that were named, but there were about 20 prominent people in Sierra Leone who were among the list.

  • And then you said, "To call for them to be with him in Buedu and that they should not be at the front line". Who are you referring to when you say "to call for them"?

  • That is the detainees who Gullit and others had released from Pademba.

  • "To be with him in Buedu". Who do you mean "him"?

  • To be with Mosquito in Buedu.

  • "That they should not be at the front line". Who is "they"?

  • That the released detainees from Pademba Road should not be at the front line.

  • Then you said, "He said that was the instructions from Mr Taylor". Who said that?

  • It was Mosquito who said that that was the instruction.

  • Who did he say that to?

  • It was the operator to whom he was explaining. Mosquito was now explaining to the operator about his conversation with Mr Benjamin Yeaten.

  • Now then you said that Mohamed Kabbah, who was the operator, sent this message to Gullit. Is that correct?

  • Now just in terms of timing here, what date is this that we are referring to?

  • It was around 7 January, I'm sure. It's supposed to be something like that, 7 January in the morning. That was after the Freetown invasion, the following day.

  • Now, do you know if this message was received?

  • How do you know that?

  • Gullit and others received the message and acted on the message.

  • Now, I'm going to ask you to just describe generally the frequency of the communications between Sam Bockarie and Gullit during the course of this Freetown operation?

  • I can say there was frequent communication at that time. Frequent communication was there. There was a free flow of communication.

  • What do you mean by that? Describe what you mean by frequent?

  • That it did not take up to an hour when one of the stations in Freetown did not call to Buedu directly, or Mosquito's station in Buedu did not call one of the stations in Freetown directly to get an update from there. It was constant communication that existed.

  • And what was the content of those communications? What were some of the things - besides the things you mentioned, what did they talk about?

  • Well, you mean during the entire stay in Freetown? Okay, then no problem. If it was in respect of the entire stay in Freetown, Gullit sent those people - those politicians - to Makeni. While they were coming one renowned one, Steve Bio, died on the way from one of the bombs. According to a message, he died on the way from an enemy bomb fragment. Then while they were in Freetown for some time, the exact days of which I cannot remember, when the AFRC and RUF spent in Freetown when they were flushed out I cannot recall, but during that period ECOMOG pressurised Gullit to flush - Gullit and others to flush them out of the city. While ECOMOG was pressurising Gullit and others to flush them out of the city, they started retreating towards the east. They started retreating.

    I can remember on one occasion when I left the monitoring station I monitored a live conversation between Mosquito and Gullit when Mosquito was giving direct instructions to Gullit for Gullit to - for Gullit to tell the men, I mean the RUF and the AFRC combatants, to cause a lot of mayhem in the city. That is like to destroy some important government buildings and to tell people to take their hands off the war and to cause real damage whereby the international community - whereby the international community would show more concern about the RUF until they released Foday Sankoh. He said if it is possible - Mosquito said if it is possible to chop off anybody's arm, he said - no. He said if it is possible to give anybody short sleeves or long sleeves, meaning to amputate anybody, he said that wouldn't be any problem. He said that they should raise alarm. He said Gullit and others should raise alarm to the level of the international community so that they can come in. Maybe that would force the government to peace talks whereby Foday Sankoh would be released.

  • Where were you when you heard this communication?

  • I was in the radio room. That is the barri - the court barri - that I had described here where the radio was.

  • And you said that you don't remember the exact date. Can you approximate during the course of Freetown [sic] when this was?

  • That is what I have said. I cannot remember the exact date that this incident took place. When that particular dialogue took place, I cannot remember the exact date.

  • If we are moving on, can I have clarification about some "he"s in an important passage here? On my font it's page 69. Just after the words "until they released Foday Sankoh", we then have - it's line 3 on page 69 of my font. "He said if it is possible - Mosquito said if it is possible to chop off anybody's arm, he said - no." Who is the "he" who is saying no?

  • I cannot recall.

  • I was just waiting for Madam President to get the reference there.

  • I have - on mine, Mr Santora, it's around page 69.

  • I have the reference too.

  • I actually thought you were looking, sorry.

  • Yes, I did find it and there are a few "he"s there that are unclear.

  • I had it and now I've lost it:

  • Mr Witness, you said that - well, you were describing the content of this communication from Sam Bockarie to Gullit during the course of the Freetown operation and you were saying that Sam Bockarie - you were describing the content and you said in the course of your answer:

    "He said if it was possible - Mosquito said if it is possible to chop off anybody's arm, he said - no. He said if it was possible to give anybody short sleeves or long sleeves, meaning to amputate anybody, he said that wouldn't be any problem."

    Now, I am going to ask you again that you called out the word "he" several times when you said, "He said if it is possible - Mosquito said if it is possible to chop off anybody's arm"?

  • Yes, it was Mosquito who said that. He said if it was possible. That was why I said no. Why I said no, because I wanted to quote exactly what Mosquito said in that dialogue. He said if it were possible to give them short sleeve or long sleeve, that meant that to chop off the people's arms. I mean, those who were - that was one of the slangs that was well-established in the revolution, short sleeve and long sleeve. That is, to chop off people's hands.

  • Further then, the next part of your response says is that he said no. Who are you saying when you said he said no?

  • I wanted to quote exactly what Mosquito said. I have repeated that. When I said it I wanted to quote exactly what Mosquito said, because he was speaking on the radio, he was speaking on the radio, and while he was talking on the radio we heard the way we talked to understand each other.

  • Mr Witness, who is the "he" that said - who is it?

  • It was Mosquito who said Gullit should give - Gullit and others should give the civilians short sleeves and long sleeves and equally burn down houses including some important government buildings. Like the oil refinery, he passed a direct instruction that if it was possible, if they had the chance, they should set it on fire. That is Gullit and others should set it on fire.

  • Mr Witness, nobody has asked you all that. We are just tussling with one sentence, "He said no". As far as I am concerned you were correcting yourself, wanting to quote exactly what I think Mosquito said directly instead of saying, "If it is possible to chop off anybody's arms", you corrected yourself and then you said, "If it was possible to give anybody short sleeves and long sleeves". Is that correct?

  • You are right, my Lordship.

  • In other words there should not be a full stop after the words "he said no". It should be, "He said - no. He said if it is possible". There shouldn't be a full stop between the word "no" and "he". I think that is what is confusing everybody.

  • I think that's right and I was initially confused myself. Thank you, Justice Sebutinde:

  • Now, Mr Witness, you've described communications related to - communications between Sam Bockarie and Gullit and the respective radio operators and you've talked conversations - communications related to the Pademba Road prisoners, communications related to a possible reinforcement and communications now related to orders to - direct instructions to cause - to burn buildings and to also raise the level of awareness of the international community. Do you recall any other communications between Sam Bockarie and Gullit --

  • Yes.

  • -- during the course of the Freetown operation?

  • Yes. The frequent communication that was between Sam Bockarie and Gullit was in relation to ammunition. That is, Gullit was requesting for ammunition from Sam Bockarie. That caused Sam Bockarie to contact Benjamin Yeaten for him to send some ammunition for us. And Sam Bockarie was unable to go on that trip, so Five-Zero told him if he was unable to go he should send someone to receive some materials. Then Mosquito was really not able to go because he was very busy coordinating the front lines.

    At that time I, one Yellow Man and Victor, we went again to Monrovia. We went again to Monrovia. In fact, that was just about two days after the Freetown invasion. Two days after the Freetown - after 6 January, sometime around that. That was when we went back to Monrovia to go for some ammunition. We went and entered to Benjamin Yeaten. That is where we were until in the late evening.

    In the evening, Benjamin Yeaten came back to the house and collected us. He collected us, I and Victor and Yellow Man, and we went with a pick-up and was filled with ammunition, about 25 boxes of ammunition, some RPG bombs and some grenades, right at White flower. That was the second time for me to get materials or ammunition directly from White Flower. We collected the ammunition and went - all I can say is it took about 36 hours to go and return.

  • So you said that this occurred approximately two days after 6 January?

  • And how long were you gone for in total?

  • About 36 hours or so. About 36 hours.

  • And when you returned with this ammunition, what happened to the ammunition, do you know?

  • Yes. The ammunition that we reached with, Mosquito - Mosquito dispatched it directly to - he dispatched it directly to Kono. Then, when the ammunition, ammunition got to Kono, Peter Vandi received it in Kono. He contacted Mosquito that he had received the Mosquito and he sent it directly to Issa in Makeni. At that time Issa had gone ahead to Makeni.

  • Slow down, Mr Witness, because sometimes when you speak too fast - speak slowly. You just said, "He contacted Mosquito that he had received the Mosquito"?

  • It was Peter Vandi who contacted Mosquito that he had received the ammunition that Mosquito had sent. Then Peter Vandi sent the materials directly to Issa, Issa Sesay, in Makeni. Issa Sesay too sent a message that he had received the materials and that he had dispatched it to Rambo and others to Waterloo area and at that time Rambo and others were now very close to Freetown. They were now in the Waterloo area to reinforce - to reinforce the fighting forces, the RUF fighting forces in Freetown.

  • How do you know about where these ammunitions you came with to Buedu - how do you know where they went? How do you know what you've just described? How do you know?

  • Everything was in the message logbook.

  • Now, can you approximate how long it took from the time the weapons - I'm sorry, I keep using that phrase. When the ammunitions reached Buedu, how long it took for them to reach Rambo?

  • Well, about three days because - about three days.

  • Now, during the course of the January operation what was the function of the monitoring station?

  • The monitoring station had the same original function that I had explained here initially; to monitor ECOMOG movements, messages that they he sent, reinforcement, the wounded soldiers, ammunition that the RUF captured from the ECOMOG, when ECOMOG was sending those messages, all of that. Part of those messages were those we monitored. Like the air mission requests.

    And even in Freetown I can remember that two - I can remember exactly there were two air mission requests which the monitoring station monitored directly from the ECOMOG net which was decoded and I took the message to Bravo Zulu 4. When I got there with the message the operator on duty transmitted that message to Freetown. And that had links about - ECOMOG saying that they suspected that there was a large concentration of AFRC/RUF forces that were close to Tower Hill and Upgun, so the air wing should send an air raid to bomb the RUF positions.

    Those were the two particular - those two particular areas. And indeed the stations, the two RUF stations that were in those two areas that I have mentioned were fortunate to be on the air and they received - I mean, the two RUF radio stations received the message and they acted upon it. I mean, the RUF fighters were able to circulate it very fast and acted on it so by the time the jet came the fighters - the RUF fighters had already changed their particular location where the air mission request had called for.

  • Where specifically was this - when you said this message that - you took the message to Bravo Zulu 4 and that when you got there with the message the operator on duty transmitted that message to Freetown. Do you recall who specifically the message was transmitted to?

  • The two stations. I cannot remember the exact - the right operators who were on duty on that day. I mean, at that hour. Cannot recall now the exact operators who were on duty at that hour at the time that the message went to say that they were the ones who received the message directly from Bravo Zulu 4.

  • Now, earlier you were describing a communication between Sam Bockarie and Gullit where Sam Bockarie told Gullit to raise the level of international awareness and to do a variety of things. Do you recall this message?

  • By the point this message had been transmitted, was this before or after you took your trip to Monrovia that you've described during the course of the January operation?

  • If I got you rightly, you are trying to confirm from me if I went - the last trip to Monrovia that I described, if I went and came back before Gullit and Mosquito discussed the bombing - the burning of houses and amputations in Freetown, right? Okay. Well, that was late - the burning down of Freetown was later that that instruction went to Gullit and the other commanders in Freetown. That was, in fact, when ECOMOG had started pressurising Gullit and others when Gullit and others were trying to retreat. It was at that time when even Mosquito had to tell Gullit to withdraw - for Gullit and others to withdraw somehow around the peninsula.

  • Simply, though, was the trip before or after? The trip you took to Monrovia, was it before or after this transmission?

  • It was before the transmission.

  • Now, again, earlier you said that you were often listening to the BBC while in Buedu. Is that correct?

  • Yes.

  • And you said you were listening to the BBC during the course of the January operation. Is that correct?

  • Were you listening to the BBC after this communication that you've described between Sam Bockarie and Gullit, this communication relating to burning and amputations?

  • Do you recall any broadcasts that you listened to after this message between Sam Bockarie and Gullit? Any particular BBC broadcasts?

  • Yes, in various broadcasts - not just once, but on various broadcasts I used to monitor. I used to monitor the BBC, VOA and other stations that the RUF - that the RUF was leaving behind a lot of amputees, a lot of corpses and a lot of houses had been set on fire whilst the RUF was trying to retreat from Freetown. I listened to that. I cannot recite everything now, but there were a lot of broadcasts that I cannot recite off head now really. I cannot recall everything.

  • I ask that what is the recording behind tab 17 be played for the witness:

  • Mr Witness, I would like you to listen to the following that is being played, okay? Listen to the broadcast.

  • Can you pause, Madam Court Officer. I haven't given a direction.

  • Mr Santora, before the witness listens, has he indicated when he listened to this particular tape?

  • Well, he doesn't know.

  • Or when he listened to the content that he has just given us? A time frame?

  • Yes, during the course of the January operation.

  • January operation meaning what?

  • When I say "January operation", Mr Witness, what do you understand that to mean?

  • That was the time when the RUF/AFRC were trying to withdraw from Freetown - when they were retreating from Freetown. Now I can't recall the specific date. I can't remember.

  • I'm not asking for a specific date. I'm just asking for approximately - you said that the operation started on 6 January 1999. Is that correct?

  • Then I was asking you about a particular communication when the forces started to retreat. Can you approximate the month and year when that occurred?

  • It was in the same January. It was in January 1999.

  • Please play the tape, or the clip I think it is.

  • [Audio clip played to the Court]

  • Mr Witness, do you recognise this broadcast?

  • Mr Santora, the witness must tell us he recognises it as what?

  • That is exactly right.

  • He must tell us what he recognises it as.

  • That was what my next exact question was:

  • What do you recognise it to be?

  • Well, this broadcast I can remember was one of the broadcasts that I recorded. I did a broadcast like this. I recorded it in Buedu for myself.

  • Where was this broadcast? Do you recognise where this broadcast was from?

  • That was a reporter from Freetown, that is all I know. He reported on the BBC Focus. At first it was at 3.15, then 5.05 - 3.05, 5.05. At first it was around 3.05 Sierra Leone local time and then again at 5.05 it was repeated. It was within one of those times that I recorded this broadcast.

  • Where were you when you heard this broadcast?

  • At first I was at the station when I heard this broadcast.

  • Do you know if Sam Bockarie heard this broadcast?

  • And what was his reaction to this broadcast?

  • Well, Sam Bockarie was well pleased over it. He was well pleased. Just that what he was saying was he said, "Well, they have not seen anything yet. That is what we will be on until you receive that Pa". That was Sam Bockarie speaking. He was referring to the Government of Sierra Leone and the civilians too. He said they should go and tell the government to release Pa Sankoh. He said that would cause the international community that, after they would have seen the level of atrocity, the level of atrocity that would cause some concern with them. He said they should do those things so that Freetown could become a ghost town where nothing went on administratively.

  • At this point, I would enquire from the Court because previously --

  • I --

  • One moment, Mr Witness. I ask that perhaps if you want to do this now I can ask that this be marked for identification along with the prior recording. Just as the Court instructed yesterday we had isolated out these recordings on to separate CDs, so I don't know if you prefer that all three - the one from yesterday and these two - now be marked. There are no more recordings to be played and I could request that those be marked at this point.

  • And the separate have been served on the Defence as part of the disclosure, or was this a general disclosure? What is the situation, Mr Munyard?

  • Yes. First of all, these have been served on us. Secondly, Mr Santora says there are no more broadcasts to be played. I am grateful for that information. It doesn't mean that there will be no more broadcasts played to this witness. I am assuming that the Prosecution aren't playing any more.

    So I think that the sensible thing is for the practical approach that I suggested yesterday, that these three items be isolated from - they are on different CDs and then burned on to one new CD as A, B and C, or 1, 2, 3, unless anybody has a more practical solution than that. I think Ms Hollis might have an idea.

  • Well, we are following the Court's instructions. We did separate them as instructed yesterday as MFI, and so we would request at this point that yesterday's recording be marked as MFI-1 and the first recording played today be marked MFI- 2, or whatever the appropriate sequencing is.

  • Yesterday's was MFI-1. After MFI-1 what comes, Madam Court Officer?

  • Your Honour, it will be MFI-5.

  • The previous tape will be MFI-5. The clip we have just heard will be MFI-6. Please proceed.

  • Okay. Thank you, Madam President:

  • Now, Mr Witness, I am just going to ask you a few more questions about the communications you recall between Sam Bockarie and Gullit. Now, you said at some point the group was retreating. Is that correct?

  • Can you describe any communications that you heard during the course of this, aside from what you have already mentioned?

  • One of the communications that I can remember was I think when Gullit and others were retreating and Mosquito said they should all come, they should retreat and assemble around the peninsula and that Gullit and others should wait for Rambo and others to join them in order to re-attack Freetown and Gullit suggested that some men should stay there, some troops should stay at the rear - I mean at the front so that everybody should not desert the rear, the combat camp, so that the AFRC and RUF should not retreat together. Mosquito did not accept that. Mosquito accepted that. At the end of February, that was still during the retreat, I can remember at a time when Gullit contacted Mosquito again, that he had received - he had gotten a communication with the ECOMOG about Pa Sankoh, about Pa Sankoh, that Foday Sankoh said he would like to talk to us, the RUF, everybody.

  • Before I ask you about this communication related to Sankoh, just to clarify. You said that a communication you remembered was:

    "It was a communication that Gullit and others should wait for Rambo and others to join them in order to re-attack Freetown and Gullit suggested that some men should stay there, some troops should stay at the rear - I mean the front, so that everybody should not desert the rear, the combat camp, so that the AFRC/RUF should not retreat together. Mosquito did not accept that. Mosquito accepted that."

    I am going to ask you to clarify this because you said - let's start from the beginning. What did you mean when you said that Gullit suggested that some men should stay there?

  • Gullit suggested that some fighters should stay in Freetown. That everybody should not retreat so that he, Rambo, would have a designated area where they would meet. They should agree on a point, on a meeting point, where Gullit and Rambo would meet and reorganise to re-attack Freetown, and Sam Bockarie accepted Gullit's suggestion.

  • Do you know - do you have any information which men were left? Do you know?

  • Yes. The men who stayed were there until even when Gullit and Rambo met and, in fact, some of the men who were going with Rambo, as they were going, Rambo sent some of them - some of them went up to the Calaba Town area, really. While they were trying to re-attack Freetown, they were not able. They were not able to withstand the ECOMOG firepower, so all of them retreated.

  • How do you know that, from your position in Buedu? How do you know that?

  • I was reading it from the message books and each time I went to the radio station, sometimes I will be standing there and listening and overhearing these conversations directly.

  • In this particular instance, what conversations were you hearing related to this group that was left behind? Who were you listening to?

  • Like when Gullit was talking to Rambo, when Rambo was talking to Issa, when Mosquito was talking directly to Issa or to Rambo or the - or when the operators - the message which the operators were sending.

  • Can you describe the manner, from your observation, in which Gullit was addressing Sam Bockarie? How was he addressing him?

  • Gullit was answering Sam Bockarie as, "Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Yes, master", or "Yes, sir", one of the two. That was how he was answering him. And Sam was calling Gullit Black Jar. Sometimes he would make a mistake and call him Gullit. When we cautioned him and wrote the name down and gave it to him so that he won't repeat it he was calling it Black Jar, Black Jar.

  • Now, Mr Witness, you've referred to some other commanders that were involved in this operation. You've called out the names Rambo before and Issa. Can you describe the communications - let me withdraw - let me just simplify this. Aside from Gullit, who within Sierra Leone was Sam Bockarie in communication with during the course of the January operation?

  • Within Sierra Leone, Sam Bockarie was communicating with Superman, General Bropleh, General Bropleh, Superman, many operators, many commanders. For now it will be boring if I say i will out all their names.

  • Well, it may not be that - well, why don't you try to call out as many names as you can remember?

  • Well, if my memory serves me well right now, I can remember Akim, General Bropleh, Rambo, Superman, Gullit, CO Isaac, Isaac Mongor, Morris Kallon.

  • During the course of the January operation were you able, from your standpoint, to observe who Gullit was in communication with aside from Sam Bockarie who you have already mentioned?

  • Yes. Gullit was in communication - in direct communication with Rambo, Superman, Issa, Five-Five, Bravo Zulu 4. I can say almost all the stations within the reach of the RUF.

  • Now, do you know --

  • Mr Santora, this name Rambo, could we have some light shed on which Rambo this is?

  • Yes, Justice Sebutinde:

  • You've called out the name Rambo as one of the people that was in communication with Sam Bockarie. Who are you referring to when you say Rambo?

  • Rambo, if my - I think if my memory serves me well, that his real name was Bustin [phon] - something like Bustin Flomo. Bustin Flomo was a vanguard from Liberia. He was a Liberian vanguard. It was Rambo who led the attack on Kono. He led the attack on Kono, that which advanced up to Makeni. He, Rambo, was the one who advanced up to Masiaka. It was Rambo who joined Gullit and others in Freetown, to re-attack Freetown. He joined Gullit and others as reinforcement as ordered by Mosquito to re-attack Freetown. Then later he, Rambo, died. He did not survive.

  • How do you know that Rambo joined Gullit to re-attack Freetown?

  • There was direct communication. There was direct communication, the sending message - the two of them were coordinating - the two radio stations were coordinating whereby Rambo's radio station and Gullit's radio station were coordinating. And all other radio stations within RUF's reach I monitored them, including Bravo Zulu 4. Including Bravo Zulu 4. And I was monitoring - I was monitoring all conversations. Everything.

  • And finally on this point, you've described some of the content of the communications that were occurring between Gullit and some of the other commanders. Can you describe specifically what was the content of the communication between Gullit and Rambo? Do you know what they were talking about?

  • It was how they were to meet. The communication that was between Gullit and Rambo was in relation to how the two forces were to meet, because Rambo was a reinforcement going to join Gullit and the other people in Freetown.

  • You also said that Gullit was in communication with Issa. Just to be clear, who are you referring to when you are referring to when you say Issa?

  • Issa Sesay, who was the field commander at that time for the RUF.

  • Do you know the content of their communications; the communications between Gullit and Issa?

  • I can say almost - at that time that I am talking about almost every communication with Gullit and the other commanders that were in Freetown with us was really based on how to recapture Freetown. That was what the communication was about.

  • And from your standpoint, from your observation, how frequent was the communication between Gullit and these commanders that you've mentioned?

  • It was often, really. Often. Sometimes - because when the operation was going on everybody was eager. Everybody was eager. So the stations - any station could call the other station. The other stations could call. Issa's station, Superman's station, they used to call the other stations in Freetown, Gullit and others, to know how the situation was going, particularly when the - when ECOMOG started pressurising them and when Gullit and others started retreating - when ECOMOG pressurised them and they started retreating. I can say from the date that Gullit and others entered Freetown, before ever Gullit and others had entered Freetown there had been constant communication. I cannot estimate the number now. Maybe - sometimes maybe within an hour one station could contact the other station, sometimes two or three times within an hour, and so I cannot give an estimate at all of how many times per day one station used to call. Like sometimes if one station - one station, sorry, today for example when they were coordinating with Gullit they used to communicate often really. I cannot confirm that.

  • Now, during the course of yesterday's testimony you made a reference to an individual called SAJ Musa. Do you recall making a reference to him?

  • I wonder before we go on to that we can just clarify what is meant by "Like sometimes if one station - one station, sorry, today for example when they were coordinating with Gullit they used to communicate often really. I cannot confirm that". Well, on the one hand he is saying something happened and then he immediately follows that by saying, "I cannot confirm that". It's a contradiction, it seems to me. I am loathe to interrupt again, but he has only just said that. It's like earlier when he was saying Mosquito agreed and then didn't agree. We need to know what he means.

  • Mr Santora, either you can clarify the point, or it can be dealt with in cross-examination.

  • I will clarify the point, Madam President:

  • Mr Witness, you said - just in terms of your last response, I want you to listen closely to what you said and explain it. You said, "Like sometimes if one station - one station, sorry, today for example when they were coordinating with Gullit they used to communicate often really. I cannot confirm that". Is that what you said?

  • Yes. You asked me how many times exactly and what I said that I cannot confirm was the exact number of times that I'm referring to. That is what I'm referring to, that I cannot confirm how many times exactly such contacts went on, but I tried again to establish the fact that the communication was frequent.

  • Now, Mr Witness, yesterday you made a reference to an individual called SAJ Musa. Do you remember making a reference to this individual?

  • Do you know where he was during the course of this 6 January invasion?

  • At that time SAJ Musa had died. He died before 6 January.

  • How do you know that?

  • It was a direct message from King Perry to Mosquito.

  • Were you present when this message came, if you can recall?

  • No, I cannot remember, but I read the message directly. I read it.

  • Now, Mr Witness, you also - and I am a little bit loathe to do this because it's a completely new area, but I can just start and then we can see how far we get.

  • Very well, Mr Santora. We have about two minutes left.

  • Mr Witness, you said - well aside during the course of the January operation, you've talked about some of the communications that Sam Bockarie had within Sierra Leone. Was he in communication with anyone outside of Sierra Leone?

  • Mosquito was in constant contact with Benjamin Yeaten in Liberia.

  • When you say "constant contact", what do you mean?

  • It did not take up to more than six hours without the two people talking. At least they used to talk - they used to talk for at least two to three times a day through the sat phone. They used to talk at least two to three times a day through the sat phone most often.

  • How do you know that?

  • Sometimes, most times in fact, I - we would be together in the same room sitting together, because at that time Mosquito used to spend most of his time in the radio room. That was where he was with his sat phone. Then when - even when his battery is out, if it is not charged, he will switch it off so when Benjamin wanted to talk to him sometimes he will tell Sunlight to contact Bravo Zulu 4 so that Bravo Zulu 4 will tell Mosquito to switch on his sat phone so that they can talk. Then sometimes, inversely, Mosquito would tell Benjamin Yeaten to call him on the sat phone to discuss whatever they wanted to discuss.

  • Mr Santora, that takes up to the lunch break.

  • In fact, I think slightly beyond it. Mr Witness, we are now going to take the lunch break. We will be resuming court at 2.30. Please adjourn court until 2.30.

  • [Lunch break taken at 1.30 p.m.]

  • [Upon resuming at 2.30 p.m.]

  • Mr Santora, I note a change of appearance.

  • Yes, Nicholas Koumjian has left the Prosecution bench.

  • Thank you. Please proceed.

  • Thank you, Madam President:

  • Good afternoon, Mr Witness.

  • Good afternoon.

  • Again just a quick reminder please, please, try to speak slowly when you are explaining something and to address the judges when you are speaking, okay?

  • I will try to keep up with that.

  • Now, before the break you were describing some of the communications that occurred between Sam Bockarie and Gullit and just for counsel's benefit I am referring back to a LiveNote reference here on mine as 83, lines 22 to 25. During the course of your responses you were speaking of a communication related to Foday Sankoh. Do you recall that?

  • You specifically said this: You said, "At the end of February that was still during the retreat I can remember at a time when Gullit contacted Mosquito again that he had received - he had gotten a communication with the ECOMOG about Pa Sankoh, about Pa Sankoh, that Foday Sankoh said he would like to talk to us, the RUF, everybody." Do you remember saying that?

  • Yes.

  • Now when you said, "He had gotten a communication with the ECOMOG about Pa Sankoh", who do you mean when you say "He had gotten a communication with the ECOMOG"? Who is "he"?

  • Black Jar, that is Gullit.

  • And what specifically happened?

  • At that time Gullit and others had almost completed the retreat from Freetown. Gullit and others were around the Waterloo area. That was some time around February now, when this really started. When on one morning Gullit contacted Log - that is Sam Bockarie - to say that he had established contact with the ECOMOG through one of the handsets which he, Gullit, and others captured in Freetown. And he said Pa Sankoh has told - that Pa Sankoh has told Gullit, Gullit and others, to ceasefire and Gullit said Pa Sankoh told him to tell Mosquito the same thing.

  • Now, the next reference is just a clarification. It is actually from yesterday's transcript and it is page 21485. Now, Mr Witness, yesterday when you were testifying you were asked why Mr Taylor was referred to as "our former leader". Do you remember that?

  • Yes.

  • In the course of your answer you were describing discussion about a ceasefire and specifically you said - and this is starting at line 22 - "And that besides Mosquito I said Issa, no Mosquito, consulted Mr Taylor about certain things that he wanted to do because for Mosquito to even accept a ceasefire because there was a point in time when Foday Sankoh called from Freetown and talked about the ceasefire, he consulted with him before he accepted the ceasefire." What ceasefire are you referring to?

  • I can make that explicit in respect of where you asked me. When Gullit contacted Mosquito, when Gullit revealed the message to Mosquito about the ceasefire, Mosquito told Gullit that he, Mosquito, won't believe what Gullit has said, that if at all Pa Sankoh wanted us to ceasefire we would hear about it. We would hear from him directly. And besides that Pa Sankoh won't be in Freetown. Pa Sankoh won't be in Freetown and we ceasefire at all. That same communication stopped. The following day - the following day again, I think, one morning, I think one other morning, Gullit contacted Mosquito again and told him and gave him time, but I cannot remember the time that he gave, that he stated that Pa Sankoh would be on the line through the VHF radio to talk to Mosquito and the other commanders.

    Gullit said Pa Sankoh said all stations were to be switched on at that time that he had shown and that very day, later in the day, Pa Sankoh came up and we received a contact from one of the ECOMOG stations. I did not know where the station was where the speaker was speaking from directly. And they told us that Pa Sankoh was at the station and was ready to talk to Mosquito and all the commanders.

  • Approximately what time period was this ceasefire that you are referring to - the ceasefire discussion?

  • Well, he is referring to a ceasefire, not a ceasefire discussion; those are two very different things. The question that Mr Santora asked, which we don't seem to be getting an answer to, was - and I quote - he ended quoting from the witness's evidence yesterday, "He consulted with him before he accepted the ceasefire", question to the witness: "What ceasefire are you referring to?" We have now embarked on a very long answer about a discussion about a ceasefire, but we still aren't anywhere near getting an answer to the very simple question that my learned friend posed to the witness.

  • Well, just quickly in response, counsel is submitting that the question referring to ceasefire discussion is improper and yet counsel himself just referred to foundation about a ceasefire discussion and so I am not actually sure what the nature of the objection is.

  • The question was - and I was trying to carefully follow the answer - "What ceasefire are you referring to?" And what we have got is a long answer about stations and communications, but we haven't got an answer to the question "What ceasefire are you referring to?" And inasmuch as there is an objection to the failure to answer that question, I agree, and I still would like to know what ceasefire the witness is referring to.

  • Thank you, Madam President.

  • I must say I have somewhat struggled with the answer.

  • Mr Witness, just answer the question specifically. What ceasefire were you referring to?

  • I am talking about a temporal - a temporal ceasefire which Foday Sankoh suggested to Mosquito and the RUF and the AFRC, so that around February - around February, really.

  • 1999, so that the ceasefire, if at all it held, that would give chance to organise peace talks which Mosquito had demanded.

  • Thank you, Mr Witness. Now, before the break you were - you said that Sam Bockarie and Benjamin Yeaten were in communication during the January operation two to three times a day approximately. Do you remember saying that?

  • Yes.

  • What was the content of those communications? What were they about?

  • Your Honours, can he kindly repeat his answer clearly.

  • Mr Witness, the interpreter did not hear you clearly. Please continue your answer from where you said, "Well, the communications". Continue from there, please.

  • The communication was based around arms and ammunition, food, supplies, fuel, consultation, reports.

  • When you say consultation, what do you mean?

  • Sometimes Mosquito would contact Benjamin to consult him on some decisions before ever he took them.

  • And when you say reports, what do you mean?

  • That was to give Benjamin updates about the situation from Sierra Leone.

  • Now, yesterday - actually the day before - you said that you remained in Buedu until April '99. Do you remember saying that?

  • Where did you go then?

  • Why were you going to Lomé?