The transcripts of the trial of Charles Taylor, former President of Liberia. More…

  • Good morning, Madam Kallon.

  • Yesterday afternoon before court adjourned we were talking about a time period after the Lome Peace Agreement in 1999 when you were in Monrovia and you said Johnny Paul Koroma was there, and you say Foday Sankoh also arrived in Monrovia having come with Ms Josephine Tengbeh, Pa Rogers and somebody called Shek Nabieu. Now let me read to you the last question I posed to you yesterday and the response you gave.

  • I'm sorry, Mr Anyah. To interrupt briefly, I think you should stick to the names Johnny Paul which is what the witness recognises.

  • That's a fair observation and it is the case that I should do that. I have not used Koroma intentionally, it just comes out because we've been working on this case for so long and we've been reading so many materials and listening to several witnesses. But I will do my best to just limit it to Johnny Paul:

  • Madam Kallon, you understand the discussion we've just had. You know somebody as Johnny Paul and the person you saw in Monrovia you've told us is Johnny Paul so please ignore the occasional slips when I add another name to that person's name as you know him. But let us continue. I will do my best to avoid this error. Page 43041, transcript of yesterday. Now, line 16 I asked you this question and this was in relation to Foday Sankoh.

    "Q. Do you know what the purpose was behind his visit to

    Monrovia?

    A. At that time, from what was being said, they said

    after the peace talks he was to pass through Monrovia.

    That was where they were to set off from for Sierra Leone."

    Do you know what the purpose was behind them passing through Monrovia before going onward to Sierra Leone?

  • No.

  • When you say Foday Sankoh came to Monrovia, do you know where he was lodged, that is, where he stayed?

  • Can you tell us where he was lodged?

  • The first place where Johnny Paul was lodged, that was where - when I went there, that was where I met him.

  • When Foday Sankoh was lodged at this place you are referring to, was Johnny Paul Koroma also lodged there at the same time - was Johnny Paul also lodged there at the same time?

  • No, Johnny Paul was there initially but at the time that Foday Sankoh reached Monrovia he was no longer there.

  • Do you know where Johnny Paul was when he was no longer lodged at that place?

  • This place where you say Johnny Paul was lodged at and then later Foday Sankoh was also lodged at the same place, can you describe it to us? What kind of compound was it?

  • We referred to that area as Congo Town.

  • Do you know who owned the premises or compound where Foday Sankoh was lodged?

  • No.

  • Do you know who provided Foday Sankoh with that lodging - that accommodation?

  • Congo Town is a part of Monrovia, is that the case?

  • In the vicinity of the place where Foday Sankoh was lodged are there any landmarks or prominent buildings that you remember that you can tell us about?

  • There are beautiful houses around.

  • Yes, but is there any particular building in that area that will help us have an idea of where this premises is located?

  • I just saw those houses. You know I am not educated so I did not know who owned those houses.

  • The persons you described yesterday as being the West Side Boys, when you say they came to Monrovia, do you know where they stayed?

  • Did you ever see those persons you've referred to as West Side Boys when they were in Monrovia?

  • Yes, I saw them.

  • Where did you see them?

  • At the time that Johnny Paul was at that particular house.

  • Were they at the house at some point in time at the same time with Johnny Paul?

  • No, Johnny Paul came first.

  • Yes, but when you say you saw them, did you see them at the house where Johnny Paul was?

  • Yes, they used to come in the morning.

  • Do you know where those West Side Boys were by the time Foday Sankoh had come to Monrovia?

  • No, by that time - when Johnny Paul went, I was no longer seeing them.

  • When you say Johnny Paul went, do you know whether he remained in Monrovia or he went somewhere else?

  • I did not ask at the time.

  • I asked you a question a few minutes ago regarding where Foday Sankoh was lodged and you said it was the place where Johnny Paul was lodged and then you went on to say, "When I went there, that was where I met him." Did you go to where Foday Sankoh was lodged in Monrovia?

  • Yes, when Foday Sankoh came I went there.

  • What was your purpose in going there?

  • Because I wanted to come back to Sierra Leone.

  • How was it that going there would result in you going back to Sierra Leone?

  • Because at that time those people who had run away to the Ivory Coast and the ECOMOG who were there, some of them wanted to return so we were all there so that they can take us along.

  • The people you are referring to who had run away to Ivory Coast, what is their nationality?

  • They were Sierra Leoneans.

  • Are you referring to those persons you mentioned previously in relation to Dr Sebo?

  • I did not see him on that day at that time.

  • Yes, what I am asking you is you remember telling us about a refugee camp in the Ivory Coast and that being the place where you came in contact with somebody called Dr Sebo. You said those who were in the refugee camp were Sierra Leoneans. Now you are referring to Sierra Leoneans in Ivory Coast and you speak of them as wanting to return. That's what you just said. You said, "Those people who had run away to the Ivory Coast and the ECOMOG who were there, some of them wanted to return," and these are Sierra Leoneans we're talking about. Are you referring to Sierra Leoneans who were displaced out of Sierra Leone because of the war?

  • Yes, can I explain a little?

  • Those people who were sent to Liberia as ECOMOG, after Kabbah had come they were just there, but they were just hanging about. They wanted to return. So all of us were hanging about, wanting to return and wanting to take the opportunity of the free ride.

  • You wanted to take the opportunity what of? Is it "the free ride" you said?

  • What free ride are you referring to?

  • Because at that time they said the UN was going to provide two planes to take us to Sierra Leone.

  • And how was that related to your visit to Foday Sankoh in Monrovia? What was the connection between the two things, the UN providing two planes to take people to Sierra Leone and your visit to Foday Sankoh in Monrovia?

  • I don't seem to understand this.

  • What nationality were the people that the UN wanted to provide the planes for?

  • They were Sierra Leoneans.

  • You told us when we started this series of questions that you went to see Foday Sankoh because you wanted to go back to Sierra Leone. Can you tell us how you felt Foday Sankoh - can you tell us how you felt visiting Foday Sankoh would help you get back to Sierra Leone?

  • I went to see Foday Sankoh and told him that I wanted to return to Sierra Leone. Then he said we should wait. When they were ready they would make an announcement about the trip. So I was hanging around when I heard that we were going, so I went to Harbel to take my belongings.

  • Very well. Where was your husband Daniel GG Kallon at this time?

  • All of them came with Foday Sankoh.

  • Was your husband among those who came with Foday Sankoh?

  • Yes.

  • When Foday Sankoh went to Lome, do you know whether your husband went with him to Lome?

  • That was what my husband told me, that they went.

  • Do you know where Charles Taylor was at the time Foday Sankoh was in Monrovia?

  • That particular street, I did not usually pass there.

  • Does that mean he was in Monrovia at the same time Foday Sankoh was there?

  • Do you know whether Charles Taylor met with Foday Sankoh at this time in Monrovia?

  • He met the two of them.

  • Who else did he meet with besides Foday Sankoh?

  • How do you know about this?

  • All of us went to the mansion.

  • Is this mansion in Monrovia?

  • In which part of Monrovia is this mansion?

  • When you are approaching the centre of Monrovia, after Foreign Affairs, around that area when you go a little, on one side there is the Temple of Justice and the mansion is on the other side.

  • Is this in downtown Monrovia?

  • With whom did you go to the mansion? You said all of you went. Give us the names of those who went to the mansion with you?

  • I went with Foday Sankoh and Pa Rogers and Shek Nabieu and Pa Kallon, SS Williams. At that time we were many, but I'm unable to name everyone right now.

  • Was your husband amongst those who went?

  • And did you say SS Williams was one of those who went?

  • What was the purpose in going to the mansion?

  • At first when we were going we didn't know why we were going. We just went and sat down. But later they called us. They selected few people and we went and sat in one office. So when we sat down - can I continue?

  • By that time I did not know where they met Johnny Paul because that place is a big place. Later we were sitting down when Johnny Paul and Jumu Jalloh came in. When they came that was the first day. The two of them, Foday Sankoh and Johnny Paul, that was the first day for the two of them to meet, so they embraced each other in joy. We all clapped and we sat down.

    As we were sitting down, Charles Taylor called us and told us that he has been charged with the responsibility to make peace between the two of them, and he said henceforth they should go to Sierra Leone in peace because the war has over. Now that they have gone for the peace, they should leave in unity as they go along. So that was what was said when we went away, our separate ways. Johnny Paul's own vehicle took him and they went and we too went to our place in Congo Town.

  • Thank you, Madam Kallon. A few questions on the basis of what you've just said. You described this place as a big place. Can you describe the building for us. When you say it was big, how many storeys was it if you remember?

  • I can't recall. The way the house was built, I can't recall how many floors but you get to some part of the building, you would think it's a different place, but it's a very big place.

  • You said when you went there - initially you said you sat down "and later they called us, they selected few people." Amongst the persons you went with, whom or which people were selected? These people you refer to as few people, what are the names of those that were selected?

  • Pa Rogers was selected, Pa Kallon, SS Williams, Shek Nabieu and myself. I was the only female there.

  • The Pa Kallon you are referring to, that is your husband Daniel GG Kallon, is it?

  • When they picked the five of you, where was Foday Sankoh?

  • We went together with Foday Sankoh.

  • Who picked the five of you? Who was the person who made the selection?

  • It was Foday Sankoh.

  • When the five of you were picked, were you separated from others that you went with?

  • Yes, because where we were sitting down - the place was big. Where we were sitting down was a small place. We could not all be accommodated there.

  • The small place you are referring to, were you taken there from the big place you've just told us about?

  • I do not understand.

  • Yes. You said all of you were first in a big place. Then you said Foday Sankoh selected five of you. Did Foday Sankoh and the five of you remain in that big place or did you go to another place from the big place where you were?

  • When he selected us, we went to that office. The chairs there were not many. That was where we were sitting down. When we finished, we joined the others and we went outside.

  • Very well. I want to focus now on that happened in that place he took you to where there were few chairs. When he took the five of you to that place where there were few chairs was anyone in that place already?

  • No. We were the first to sit down before Johnny Paul and Jumu Jalloh came in.

  • And then after Johnny Paul came with Jumu Jalloh who else, if anyone, came into that room?

  • Then Charles Taylor came.

  • Did he come alone or did he come with others?

  • He came with other people but I do not know those people.

  • When he came can you tell us what he said, exactly what he said? You've told us some of it, but tell us all that you remember him saying?

  • When Johnny Paul met us, they entered and he sat down. Then Charles Taylor said - he called Foday Sankoh and Johnny Paul and said, "You people are now facing each other." He said they should greet each other and they greeted each other. After that, all of them sat down. Those of us who were sitting down, when they stood up and embraced each other, we clapped. When they sat down again, Charles Taylor started advising them that they are about to go to Sierra Leone, they should go in peace and that is why he had decided that they should see each other before they departed. That was the advice he was giving them.

  • Before when you spoke of this meeting, this is at page 12 of my LiveNote using a 14-point font, lines 12 to 15, you said, "Charles Taylor called us and told us that he has been charged with the responsibility to make peace between the two of them." Did Charles Taylor say anything about who charged him with this responsibility to make peace between Sankoh and Johnny Paul?

  • He named someone but I do not know that person's name any longer.

  • Do you know whether any member of the international community was present in that room when Charles Taylor met Johnny Paul and Foday Sankoh?

  • I did not know their positions but I used to see some big people.

  • When you say big people, are you referring to people that were big in size or are you saying they were big in another sense?

  • I saw people - not the size, but when you look at the people you know that they have done a good job because you see their appearance. Because someone who is not responsible, it's not difficult to know. I saw them.

  • Were there any representatives of the media or press in that room when this meeting took place?

  • Yes, I saw people taking photographs.

  • You said this was the first time of them seeing each other, referring to Johnny Paul and Foday Sankoh. You said, "The two of them, Foday Sankoh and Johnny Paul, that was the first day for them to meet." To your knowledge, before that day had Foday Sankoh ever met Johnny Paul Koroma - Johnny Paul in person?

  • No, it was Foday Sankoh himself who said that was the first day for him to know Johnny Paul.

  • Do you know whether, besides that meeting where Charles Taylor met with Foday Sankoh and Johnny Paul, he had met outside of that meeting with Foday Sankoh during this time in Monrovia?

  • When you say no, are you saying you do not know or are you saying Charles Taylor did not meet separately with Foday Sankoh?

  • I did not see that happen.

  • Do you know whether Charles Taylor, besides this meeting where he met with Sankoh and Johnny Paul, met separately with Johnny Paul in Monrovia around this time?

  • I don't know that.

  • What happened after Charles Taylor said all that he said during the meeting?

  • After he had spoken, we returned to Congo Town.

  • Before we - I apologise for interrupting. I still have some questions about the meeting. You tell us that Charles Taylor spoke. Did you hear Foday Sankoh say any words after Charles Taylor spoke during the meeting?

  • Yes, Foday Sankoh said something.

  • What do you remember him saying?

  • He said he had no problems with Johnny Paul. He regards Johnny Paul as his son. That was what he said.

  • And how about Johnny Paul; did he say or make any remarks after Charles Taylor and Foday Sankoh had spoken during the meeting?

  • Yes, he said something.

  • Can you tell us what you heard him say?

  • He too said that he's heard what the Pa has said and he too regards the Pa his Pa.

  • The Pa you are referring to now is whom?

  • Johnny Paul said he regards the Pa as his Pa. What does that mean?

  • When Foday Sankoh said he regarded Johnny Paul his son, the son too accepted that he regarded Foday Sankoh his father.

  • Thank you, Madam Kallon. After the meeting ended, where did you go?

  • We went to Congo Town.

  • Where in Congo Town did you go to?

  • Where Foday Sankoh was lodged.

  • And what happened from then on?

  • Well, I just went and spoke to the Pa, and the Pa said if I wanted to go to Sierra Leone I should go and pack my belongings because we were to leave at any time.

  • The Pa you are referring to now, is that Foday Sankoh?

  • Did you go and pack your belongings?

  • Yes, I went to Firestone and packed my belongings.

  • And to where did you go after you packed your belongings?

  • I brought my belongings and parked them at Congo Town.

  • Where in Congo Town?

  • Where Foday Sankoh was staying.

  • How long did you remain in Monrovia?

  • When I brought my belongings, we passed a night and on the second night they said we were to travel.

  • Do you know approximately how long Foday Sankoh spent in Monrovia during this trip by him there?

  • It was just for a few days. It did not take long.

  • At the place where he was lodged, do you know whether Foday Sankoh received any visitors while he was in Monrovia?

  • I was not staying there that much. I was staying in Harbel. I just used to come there. Sometimes I'll come in the afternoon. I was not living there.

  • Yes, we appreciate that, but do you know whether he received any visitors when he was in Monrovia at that place?

  • By that time the population was heavy outside there. Those who had gone to Liberia who had been there for a long time and wanted to get back but didn't have money, they were going there to make use of the opportunity of the free ride, that of the plane that was to take them along. So there was a huge population outside there.

  • The population and persons you are referring to, what nationality are they?

  • They were Sierra Leoneans.

  • After you had taken your belongings from Firestone you went to Congo Town to where Foday Sankoh was lodged. You said the following day something happened. What happened on the following day?

  • Something happened? I do not understand.

  • Let me read you your answer to be more specific. You said, "When I brought my belongings, we passed a night and on the second night they said we were to travel." Did you travel on the second night?

  • How did you travel?

  • A bus took us from Congo Town and we went to Robertsfield. That was where we were until the planes arrived.

  • You remember mentioning, in relation to the word "free ride", that the UN was going to provide two planes. Do you remember telling us that, "The UN was going to provide two planes to take us to Sierra Leone"? The plane that came, was it a UN plane?

  • That was what they said.

  • When I asked Pa Rogers and others, that was what they said, that the UN was going to provide it.

  • Do you know how the UN became involved with this transportation of Foday Sankoh back to Sierra Leone?

  • No, I don't know that.

  • Do you know why the UN was involved in any of this, the movement of Foday Sankoh and others to Sierra Leone from Liberia?

  • I do not understand that area.

  • Where was Johnny Paul while you went to Robertsfield with the others?

  • I did not know where he was lodged.

  • When you got to Robertsfield, was Foday Sankoh in your company?

  • Where was he at that time?

  • You said the planes arrived. What happened when the planes arrived?

  • When the plane arrived, our names were taken down before we boarded the first plane.

  • You and who boarded the first plane?

  • The SLAs who were there as ECOMOG and us and some Sierra Leoneans boys. The young girls too were there, so all of us took off and boarded the plane.

  • And to where were you taken by the plane?

  • To the Lungi Airport.

  • When you got to Lungi was Foday Sankoh there?

  • Did you see him at any point in time while you were still at Lungi?

  • How did you see him?

  • When the second plane arrived we were still around. When the plane landed, we saw him and Johnny Paul disembark.

  • Was this one of the two planes - or was this one of the planes you said arrived at Robertsfield?

  • And on the second plane you referred to in relation to Lungi, you said you saw Foday Sankoh and Johnny Paul after that plane landed. Is that what you said?

  • What happened at the airport in Lungi when Sankoh landed with Johnny Paul?

  • Yes, please do, Madam Kallon.

  • After they had disembarked, as they were coming, I saw the group split at Lungi Airport. Some people were singing for Johnny Paul while others were singing for Foday Sankoh. That was how they were behaving until we were lifted to Mammy Yoko.

  • The persons that were singing for Johnny Paul, were those civilians?

  • They were mixed, civilians and soldiers.

  • How about those who were singing for Foday Sankoh, were they civilians?

  • It was the civilians who were cheering that the war was over.

  • These planes that brought you and Foday Sankoh and Johnny Paul, these two planes you've referred to, did they have any logos or emblems on the outside of planes?

  • I did not look at them. Even if I had, I wouldn't understand.

  • Do you remember the colours of these planes?

  • I have forgotten now.

  • Do you know if any letters were written on these planes - words or letters?

  • If I had been educated I would have known. But whatever they might have written, I wouldn't know.

  • Very well. From the airport where did you go? From Lungi Airport where did you go?

  • Another helicopter airlifted us to the Mammy Yoko.

  • Was it only one helicopter or were there more than one helicopters?

  • Are you saying two airlifts or are you saying two separate helicopters?

  • Johnny Paul and the Pa, I did not know where they took them, but those of us who were in the plane, we did not ride in the same helicopter with Foday Sankoh and Johnny Paul. Those of us who were with them, we were in one when we went. So I did not know when they took them.

  • The helicopter that took you to Mammy Yoko, do you know who provided that helicopter to take you there?

  • Did the helicopter have any logos or markings on its body?

  • I did not look at it.

  • When you got to Mammy Yoko, did you see Foday Sankoh and Johnny Paul there?

  • At that time I did not see them any longer. We were just loaded in one bus and they took us to Tejan Kabbah - Tejan Kabbah's lodge.

  • Yes, we'll get to this part of the story when you go to Tejan Kabbah's lodge. You mentioned being taken with a group in the first helicopter. Was there a second helicopter after the first one took you and the others to Mammy Yoko?

  • I did not know what took Foday Sankoh and Johnny Paul across. We just met them now at the meeting. So I did not know whether in our absence they took them or they went ahead of us. I don't know.

  • But did you hear anything about how Foday Sankoh and Johnny Paul left Lungi on that day?

  • No, we did not know which way they went.

  • Very well. You said you went to Tejan Kabbah's lodge. At this time was Kabbah President of Sierra Leone?

  • Did you meet Foday Sankoh or Johnny Paul at Kabbah's lodge?

  • Were both of them there when you were taken there?

  • Yes, both of them were there.

  • Tell us what happened at President Kabbah's lodge?

  • Well, by that time when we got there, there was a huge population there. The meeting was going on before us. Although - well, as they were talking, I can only understand a little. Tejan Kabbah first spoke. He welcomed them there. Then he put a state of emergency.

    After they had spoken, Foday Sankoh did not want that one put, but it did not hold sway. So when he spoke, he sat down. Johnny Paul too spoke and he sat down. He just told the international community thanks, and he said he was going by the law.

    After the meeting, it was Johnny Paul who first went to his house. We stayed there with Foday Sankoh at Tejan Kabbah's lodge. Can I stop there for now?

  • Yes, I have a few follow-up questions. Thank you, Madam Kallon. You said President Kabbah spoke first, that he welcomed all of you there, and you said, "Then he put a state of emergency." What do you mean by state of emergency?

  • At that moment I did not understand, but when I went home I took my time to ask.

  • And what was your understanding of this phrase "state of emergency"?

  • They said that phrase, when it is approved in a country - when it's declared in a country, whoever does something out of the way in the country, they had the right to arrest that person.

  • And you said, "Foday Sankoh did not want that one put, but it did not hold sway." What did Foday Sankoh not want at that time?

  • Well, he did not want it because he knew what he had gone with. Maybe what he had in his mind, but he did not want it declared.

  • What did he not want declared?

  • That particular phrase, he did not want it.

  • Are you referring to "state of emergency"?

  • You said Johnny Paul then spoke, and he told the international community thanks. Were there any members of the international community present at President Kabbah's lodge when all of this took place?

  • Yes, at that time I saw white people. They were there.

  • Were there any members of the press or media present at President Kabbah's lodge at that time?

  • Yes, they were there.

  • You said after the meeting Johnny Paul was the first to go; that he went to his house, and you stayed at Kabbah's lodge with Foday Sankoh. For how long did you and Foday Sankoh stay at President Kabbah's lodge?

  • We stayed there for some time. We stayed long there. Foday Sankoh and Tejan Kabbah had long discussions.

  • At some point in time did you leave the lodge?

  • Yes. They even provided food for us. We ate before we left the lodge in the evening.

  • And from the lodge, to where did you go?

  • To the house that had been provided for Foday Sankoh at Spur Road.

  • Is that in Freetown?

  • Who provided that house to Foday Sankoh?

  • Well, I did not know because it was UNOMSIL that led us to the place.

  • The force that we met that was taking care of the security in Sierra Leone.

  • Does that force belong to a government or an organisation that you know of?

  • Well, that force, every big man was with UNOMSIL. So that force, after the Lome Peace Accord, those are the people whom they sent.

  • Where the peace talks were held, I think they sent them.

  • You know what UNOMSIL means, those letters UNOMSIL?

  • When you got to the house that was provided to Foday Sankoh at Spur Road, what happened?

  • At that time the people who were there were many, so they couldn't all be accommodated in the house. So the Pa started asking people to lodge the families - I mean, his people that he had come with, they could not all be accommodated in that house so they started finding lodging for them outside.

  • The people that Foday Sankoh had come with, were they members of the RUF?

  • Yes, they had been with the Pa. In fact they were talking as if they have been carrying the war. In fact they were in the forefront now.

  • They were in the forefront of what?

  • All of Foday Sankoh's business, they were leading that now in Freetown.

  • You, did you stay at Spur Road or did you go somewhere else?

  • No, I was not at Spur Road.

  • What of your husband Pa Kallon?

  • My husband too was not there.

  • Can you give us the names of some of the RUF persons that were at Spur Road or that remained there following the visit to Kabbah's lodge?

  • At Spur Road so many people were not there, because the house hadn't a lot of rooms. We just usually used to go there in the mornings and in the evening we would all go our separate place. I was first lodged at Juba.

  • Let me ask this one - this basic question I don't believe I asked. Did Foday Sankoh take up residence at that house? Did he live there after you left President Kabbah's lodge?

  • Yes, that was where he was at Spur Road.

  • Which members of the RUF, if any, also lived there with Foday Sankoh?

  • No, in there - because the securities that were there were under UNAMSIL, except those little boys that the Pa used to send but there were no big guys.

  • Was it the case that UNAMSIL was providing security for that premises at Spur Road?

  • You said a few minutes ago that you did not stay at that premises on Spur Road; you went to Juba. Where exactly did you go in Juba?

  • That was my first time to go there. The house where we were lodged - we were lodged at a lady's place whose parents were not there. Her name was --

  • Your Honours, can the witness repeat the name of the lady.

  • Madam Kallon, the name of the lady's place where you were lodged - well, the name of the lady was what?

  • Bobson but her parents were not living in the house.

  • For how long were you lodged there?

  • I spent three days there. I left the place and I returned to my place because I had already paid for two years before I left.

  • The place you say you returned to that you had paid for two years before you left, where was that?

  • Is this the same Portee area you referred to previously when you spoke of the January 6 - when you spoke of the January 199 - I withdraw that. The witness did not give a year. This Portee area you are referring to now, was that the place you were at when you spoke of SAJ Musa's people trying to enter Freetown?

  • Yes, that's the same Portee.

  • Thank you, Madam Kallon. When you returned to Portee, what were you doing for work?

  • In the morning I will board the transport to Spur Road and we'll be there for the whole day. I would even eat there and in the evening I return. Do you want me to continue?

  • Yes, please.

  • So when I used to go there I saw that there were many women in the place at that place and they were fighting for positions, so I stopped going there as frequent as I used to do, and later I asked the Pa to give me some money so I'll go on my business. Then the women came and asked Pa that we should be given some money to do business. I went to Josephine Tengbeh. Then I explained to her that I would want to be going to Guinea and back and Josephine Tengbeh explain to the Pa, and the Pa took out some money. But when he gave the money, the money was not meant for me alone.

  • Very well. A few questions, Madam Kallon. The Pa that you are referring to that you asked for money, who is that?

  • You said there were many women at the place and that they were fighting for positions. At which place were these women?

  • At Foday Sankoh's at Spur Road. If you were there, it looked like a market.

  • What positions were the women fighting for?

  • They were fighting for lady president or something. I don't understand the positions, but they were fighting for positions. They were infighting amongst them. So that was the time I asked for money so I will go ahead with my business.

  • You said you went to Josephine Tengbeh saying you wanted to go to Guinea, and then she spoke with the Pa and the Pa gave - took out some money and gave you the money. How much did the Pa give you.

  • Is that United States dollars?

  • Yes.

  • You said when you were given this money, the money was not meant for you alone. Who else was the money to be shared with or who else was the money meant for?

  • Myself, Mayilah Yansaneh and Josephine Tengbeh were sitting together when the Pa gave the money to Josephine and said that we should be doing business, myself and the women.

  • Yourself and which women?

  • The women who had come to the Pa on the political lines.

  • The name of the woman that you sat with whose last name is Lansana, what is that woman's first name?

  • I said Yansaneh. Mayilah Yansaneh.

  • Madam President, I would spell it phonetically M-A-Y-I-L-A-H Y-A-N-S-A-N-E-H:

  • Who was Mayilah Yansaneh?

  • Mayilah were the leaders during the AFRC government when Johnny Paul was in power. They were the leaders. But after AFRC was ousted from power they are the ones who were released from Pademba and they walked to the RUF area. When I met her there I told the Pa that she was my friend. That was why - because I had said she was my friend, that was why she was included in the trip to Freetown.

  • Well, was this Mayilah Yansaneh detained at Pademba Road Prison, Madam Kallon?

  • Yes, they were the one whose were condemned.

  • Condemned in what sense?

  • They were tried and they were convicted.

  • Were they handed down any sentences after being convicted?

  • Yes, they were sentenced.

  • Sentenced to what?

  • When you say - you said it was because you said she was your friend that she was included in the trip to Freetown, what trip are you referring to when you say the trip to Freetown?

  • That same trip that we made from Liberia to Sierra Leone. Mayilah was amongst the trip. I just forgot to mention her name.

  • Do you know why she happened to be in Liberia at the time you returned with her to Sierra Leone?

  • No, I don't understand that area.

  • Very well. So Foday Sankoh gives Josephine Tengbeh money in the presence of you and Mayilah Yansaneh, saying that the money should be used in relation to you and other women and those women were on the political lines or political side. What exactly was the money to be used for?

  • They said we were to be doing business with it.

  • And what did you do after this money was given to you?

  • I went to Guinea to buy wares.

  • How long were you in Guinea for?

  • From Guinea where did you go?

  • I went to Freetown.

  • Did you take anything from Guinea back to Freetown?

  • Yes, I brought wares.

  • When you got to Freetown, what happened?

  • What sort of items were you selling at this time?

  • At that time I used to bring those madam apparels and brillion in bales.

  • From where did you sell these items? Which part of Freetown?

  • Whenever I brought brillion, I will bring go to the brillion sellers in their shops and I will make contacts with them, and they will come to me and they will take it for a week, and during the second week they will pay my money.

  • Did you have a shop from which you sold at this time?

  • Yes. Where I had the shop, I did not sell there except when I would go out to make some contacts, because I had my shop at Portee, so they were not buying stuff there.

  • Very well. Did you make any profit from the sale of these items?

  • Did you share any of that profit with Foday Sankoh or any of the women that you referred to, Josephine Tengbeh, Mayilah Yansaneh, or the women that were on the political side?

  • No. The money was between Josephine Tengbeh and myself.

  • You testified yesterday regarding Josephine Tengbeh that she was "loving" Foday Sankoh. Was she and Foday Sankoh still together as in partners at this time?

  • Yes.

  • For how long did you continue to sell these types of items in Freetown?

  • It took about - about two months.

  • What happened after two months?

  • That was when I went to Guinea, but when I returned I did not meet Foday Sankoh in Freetown. They said he had travelled elsewhere, but I didn't know where he had gone to. Should I continue?

  • Yes, please, continue.

  • So at that time Josephine Tengbeh told me that the money for food at home had run out, so I was the one providing money now for food at home. And after that, they said the Pa was to come, and Josephine said I should give some money so the people would cook and the transportation fare to go and receive the Pa. So I used money, beyond 3 million, on that day.

  • Three million what?

  • Do you know where Foday Sankoh went to?

  • I've forgotten the name of the country because I wasn't there when he left.

  • You said you were providing money for food at home. Whose home were you providing this money to?

  • Where Foday Sankoh was and where Josephine Tengbeh was in charge when he left.

  • Did Foday Sankoh return from this trip?

  • Where was he based at when he came back?

  • It's the same house at Spur Road. That was where he came and he met Josephine Tengbeh there.

  • Do you remember what month and what year this was?

  • I don't remember.

  • Continue. What happened at this time in relation to you, Isatu Kallon, and your interaction with Foday Sankoh and others at Spur Road in Freetown?

  • At that time the Pa, Foday Sankoh, was acting funny at the house, so Mayilah started inciting those women for them to come and ask me for the money. She used to assemble them and told them to go to the Pa and that if they went to the Pa - but whenever they went to the Pa, the Pa would just laugh and leave them. He would not call - he would not invite me to ask me anything about that.

    Then I was not feeling all right about that, so I told the Pa that I was to go to the provinces. And he said, "If you want to go to the provinces, I would give you a document so that you can go and resolve those conflicts between Tall Bai Bureh in Kambia District and the others." That was when the Pa gave me the document and I left them in Freetown for Kambia District.

  • Thank you, Madam Kallon. A few questions. You said Foday Sankoh was acting funnily. At least that's the way it comes out in the transcript. What do you mean by he was acting in a funny way at that time?

  • At that time in - you know, he --

  • Your Honours, can the witness repeat that one. Your Honours, can the witness kindly repeat.

  • Madam Witness, please pause. The interpreter didn't catch up with you. Please repeat what you were saying.

  • I said at that time Foday Sankoh was just there like that. There were times he will take two or three people in a small car and they will go into the car, they will just be riding in Freetown. Nobody would know their whereabouts, riding all about the town. So I said - when I saw that I said, "Oh, this situation is not good for me. Let me just leave them and go." That's why I asked to go to the provinces.

  • Do you know whether at this time Foday Sankoh had any positions within the Sierra Leonean government?

  • Yes. When we went there initially, he was given a position, but --

  • What position was he given?

  • They said he was the head of the diamond centre. But from the time we went to Freetown, I did not see him going to work. When they showed him the office at the Youyi Building, he said he did not want the place. So I did not see him doing the work. I did not see him in any office until I left.

  • Who gave Foday Sankoh this position?

  • I wasn't there when the position was given to him. I don't know. Maybe it was the time that they went for the peace talks. I don't know.

  • The name of the building you referred to, we cannot see it on the record. You mentioned a name. What was the name you said? I think you said it yesterday as well, but let me let you repeat it.

  • It was Youyi Building.

  • I think that was spelled yesterday. That should be on the record.

    Madam Kallon, you said you went to Kambia District and you referred to a dispute concerning Tall Bai Bureh. What dispute are you referring to?

  • Bai Bureh and his men, who were in the Kambia District, they were harassing the civilians, so there were complaints coming over to Freetown to Foday Sankoh.

  • And you said when you told Foday Sankoh that you wanted to go to the provinces, he said he would give you a document so that you can go and resolve the conflicts between Tall Bai Bureh and others in Kambia District. What document was Foday Sankoh referring to when he said he would give you a document?

  • The paper that he gave to me, he sent me to Bai Bureh saying that he had - he was the one who had sent me to him and that the problem between the soldiers and the civilians, that he should make sure he listened to whatever I was to tell the civilians, and whatever the civilians requested - if they had wronged the civilians, they were to say sorry to the civilians. So that was what was contained in the paper and some other disputes that I was to resolve. That was what was contained in the paper.

  • Did you resolve those disputes in Kambia District?

  • Yes. I did my best.

  • How long did you stay at the Kambia District?

  • Your Honours, can the witness repeat this one and make herself much clearer.

  • Madam Kallon, the interpreter was unable to follow you.

    Madam President, if I could suggest that perhaps the chair of the witness be moved a bit forward, closer to the microphone. Thank you, Madam Court Officer.

    Madam Kallon, I asked you how long you stayed at Kambia District, and you were about to give us your response and the interpreter did not understand some of what you said. Can you repeat your answer, please?

  • I spent a long time there because I used to hold meetings and resolving issues right up to the time I went to Madina and from there I went towards the Bamoluma. It was now in my presence that I saw the UNOMSIL who were loaded by Bai Bureh in a truck. At that time the way the rebels were behaving, people started coming to me asking, "What is happening? What is happening?" And I told them to wait, that I didn't know what was happening myself. And later Bai Bureh took the UNOMSIL people to Kamba. From there when they returned, I went there and asked I him. I said, "What's going on?" And he said, "Oh, haven't you heard what is going on?" And I said no. He said, "Those UNOMSIL are forcing the children here to disarm. That is the conflict that they had in Makeni and that's why we have arrested these and we've taken them to Kamba."

  • Thank you, Madam Kallon. Can I ask you a few questions regarding what you've said. Tall Bai Bureh at this time, was he RUF?

  • When you spoke of a conflict in Kambia District involving Tall Bai Bureh, the conflict was between Tall Bai Bureh and whom?

  • The conflict started from Makeni. It was through radio that Bai Bureh used. I don't know whether that was when he used his decision, because he was not in Makeni.

  • The conflict in Makeni was between whom? You said the conflict started in Makeni. Who were the parties in conflict in Makeni?

  • Well, according to what Bai Bureh told me, he said the conflict was between Kallon and others. He just said Kallon and high command and the others, but I didn't bother to ask him what he meant by high command and others.

  • When he said high command, was he referring to a person?

  • It's the group that was there, because at that time Kallon was there and Augustine Gbao himself was there. I don't know if Issa was there because he normally does not stay at a place for a long time. He just said Kallon and the high command, so I don't know who comprised the high command and who was part of the conflict.

  • The person you referred to as Kallon, is that - I mean, what is that person's first name?

  • You said that Bai Bureh told you that those UNAMSIL are forcing the children here to disarm. The children you speak of there, who are those?

  • They were RUF boys.

  • You said you saw the UNOMSIL who were loaded by Bai Bureh in a truck. How many UNOMSIL did you see being loaded onto a truck by Bai Bureh?

  • They were many. The truck was full. I did not count them.

  • You said that he had arrested these and he took them to Kamba. Who was arrested?

  • And was it Tall Bai Bureh who arrested them?

  • Yes.

  • What was going on in Spur Road in Freetown at the time you were at the Kambia District? Do you know?

  • At that time I did not know what was going on there, but the action that I saw at Bai Bureh's, I decided to contact the radio boys and I went to the radio and sent a message to the Pa. And the Pa just asked me, "Where are you now?" And I said, "I am still in the Kambia District." And he said, "Don't bother yourself to come now. Just be there for now." That was last thing I ever spoke to Foday Sankoh.

  • Very well. And just a few clarifications. When you were speaking of the Kambia District you spoke of places that you went to. You spoke of Madina and then you said from Madina - where did you go from Madina?

  • And from Bamoluma where did you go?

  • I went back to Rokupr.

  • Very well. Madam President, Bamoluma I would spell B-A-M-O-L-U-M-A and that's a phonetic spelling:

  • How long did you stay in the Kambia District for?

  • Just after that incident the boys got up again and they started fighting, so there was no progress any more. They were going up and down without taking any control. They were no longer under control. So I went back and started doing my business.

  • Where were you doing your business from?

  • At that time I used to go to Dakabay [phon] and I will go to Conakry to buy items and I would bring them back and sell them to the ladies in Kambia District, the market women.

  • The first place you mentioned that you used to go to in addition to Conakry, can you say that name again?

  • Is it near Conakry?

  • No, it is near Kambia District. It's not a far place from there.

  • Madam President, I will try and get a spelling:

  • Madam Kallon, for how long did you stay in Kambia undertaking your business?

  • I was on my business right up to the time - and one day I was sitting when they were bombing, the shelling, you know the shrapnels were falling off around that area so I left the place.

  • Who was doing the bombing or shelling?

  • The bomb was coming from the Guinea area.

  • I think the witness referred to shrapnel. The shrapnel were falling.

  • Thank you, Madam President:

  • And when you say you left the place to where did you go?

  • When I left Rokupr I passed the night in Kamakwie.

  • Did you stay in Kamakwie or did you go somewhere else?

  • I passed through and I went to Makeni.

  • At this time when you were in Makeni did you consider yourself a member of the RUF?

  • Where was your husband at that time?

  • At that time he had been arrested in Freetown. They were at the Pademba Road.

  • How was it that your husband was arrested in Freetown?

  • At the time they did that demonstration. That was the time when they demonstrated. That was when they were arrested.

  • What demonstration are you referring to, Madam Kallon?

  • We were in Kambia and we heard about demonstration in Freetown. I wasn't there, so I don't know what actually obtained. I just heard that they had been arrested.

  • Did you hear where the demonstration had taken place in Freetown?

  • Those who used to go there to buy market wares. They used to sell all sort of things. I did not listen to radio because I didn't have time for that.

  • My question is did you hear the place or location where the demonstration is said to have taken place in Freetown?

  • They said at Foday Sankoh's house was where they went, those who were demonstrating.

  • Is this the house on Spur Road you've testified about previously?

  • Was your husband the only one to be arrested in relation to this demonstration?

  • No, many of them were arrested there. Many of them were arrested.

  • Those who were arrested, were they RUF?

  • Was Foday Sankoh one of those who was arrested?

  • Yes, he too was arrested, but I think my husband and others were initially arrested. They were the first to be arrested.

  • Very well. Did you remain in Makeni once you got there?

  • Thank you, Madam Kallon. Now, a few questions for you in relation to Charles Taylor. You have testified now for several days. You have spoken about meeting someone called Pa Morlai when you were in the vicinity of Firestone Harbel in Liberia before there was war in Sierra Leone. You knew that person through the time when you knew his name was Foday Sankoh. You've testified about several radio contacts with this person Foday Sankoh. You've testified about meetings with him. You've testified about him entrusting you with responsibility on various occasions to take people from Sierra Leone through Guinea to the Ivory Coast to go to places such as the Kambia District for a particular purpose, in that instance to resolve a conflict involving Tall Bai Bureh. During the entire period of time when you interacted with Pa Morlai and Foday Sankoh, did the name Charles Taylor come up? Did the two of you discuss Charles Taylor?

  • Never. No.

  • During the time when you knew this Pa Morlai and Foday Sankoh in Liberia before you said he crossed over into Sierra Leone, in Liberia did you ever see him and Charles Taylor together?

  • When he crossed over to Sierra Leone and you Isatu Kallon used to go into Sierra Leone and go out of Sierra Leone - first you went into Sierra Leone from when you were in Harbel and then you came back to Liberia, and then when you reached Danane, you also made trips to Sierra Leone, and then from Guinea as well you made trips in and out of Sierra Leone. During your trips to Sierra Leone, did you ever see Charles Taylor in Sierra Leone?

  • Did you ever see Foday Sankoh and Charles Taylor together in Sierra Leone?

  • You spoke of efforts made by yourself to purchase ammunition for the RUF. On one instance you were arrested in Conakry in relation to such an attempted purchase. You spoke of being given diamonds by the RUF to sell for various purposes, in particular to buy ammunition. Did you hear from anyone during your various dealings with the RUF that Charles Taylor was assisting them or helping them in any way?

  • No, I did not hear that.

  • Did you hear of one instance, one time, when someone in the RUF said Charles Taylor gave them ammunition?

  • No, never did I hear that.

  • Did you hear of one instance, any single time, when Charles Taylor was said to have given the RUF arms?

  • I did not see that happen, nor did I hear that.

  • Of all the RUF members you came in contact with and with whom you interacted, did you hear anyone say that Charles Taylor sent them from Liberia to Sierra Leone to fight with the RUF?

  • No.

  • Thank you, Madam Kallon. I want to show you a few photographs now, and I've communicated the exhibit numbers to the Court Management Section.

    I should indicate that some of these exhibits may have inscriptions on them. I am not particularly sure which ones do and which ones do not. But what we have done, consistent with prior practice, is to replicate the exhibit. I would ask that in those instances where a photograph has an inscription on it, I be allowed to give Madam Court Officer the duplicate copy we have made and it will be shown to learned counsel opposite before being placed in front of witness.

  • Very well.

  • So can I start with Prosecution exhibit P-397B. That one I know has inscriptions on it, so I will give a clean copy to Madam Court Officer, and could you please show this to counsel opposite. Could that be first shown to the witness and then displayed for the Court, please:

  • Madam Kallon, can you look at that photograph. May that be displayed, please. Madam Kallon, you see the photograph that is being displayed. Do you recognise the person that is pictured in that photograph?

  • No, I don't know him.

  • Thank you, Madam Kallon.

    I wonder if one way of proceeding is that I just read out the exhibit numbers and we take all of them out. Can we go to Prosecution exhibit P-45A, please. Can I ask if it has any markings on it? Nothing is written on the face of it? Yes, we could display it and also show it to the witness. May the photograph be displayed, please?

    Madam Kallon, do you recognise anyone in that photograph?

  • This person that is on this other end --

  • Madam Kallon, we will ask you to switch seats, if you don't mind, to the seat in front of the overhead projector so you can point with a pen.

  • [No interpretation].

  • Do you know the name of that person on the far right hand of the photograph?

  • He is Issa Sesay.

  • Very well. Can you describe something the person is wearing, Madam Kallon?

  • I said this one is Issa Sesay.

  • Yes, I want you to describe - is that the one with the white hat in the photograph?

  • Yes, with the eyeglasses.

  • Thank you, Madam Kallon.

    May the witness be shown Prosecution exhibit 30D. Oh, it is marked. I have a clean copy here. Could you show this to counsel opposite, please.

    Madam Kallon, can you look at that photograph closely.

  • I know the one in the middle, the one who has the white shirt on.

  • Madam Kallon, if you feel like it, take up the photograph again and look at it closely. Look at the three faces closely and when you are ready, you let us know.

  • I said I know him.

  • Very well. Could the photograph be displayed, please. Whom do you know in that photograph, Madam Kallon?

  • The one in the centre.

  • What is that person's name?

  • Lawrence Amadia [phon].

  • Thank you, Madam Kallon. Is that the only person you recognise in that photograph?

  • These other ones, I used to see them but I don't know their names.

  • May the witness be shown Prosecution exhibit 153C, please. I have a clean copy here, and maybe we could do it together with P-68G.

  • Mr Anyah, I have my eye on the time. Of course we cannot display two pictures together, can we, at the same time? Display one at a time, please. Which photographs are we looking at?

  • This is Prosecution exhibit P-153C.

  • Madam Kallon, do you recognise who is pictured in that photograph?

  • Madam President, I see the time.

  • Yes, this is an appropriate time to take the break. We will recess for 30 minutes and reconvene at 11.30.

  • [Break taken at 11.00 a.m.]

  • [Upon resuming at 11.33 a.m.]

  • Mr Anyah, I would propose that in order to save time you list all the photographs that you want to put to the witness so that the courtroom officer has them in her hand, instead of her walking up and down.

  • I will do so, Madam President, thank you. There are only a few left to consider with the witness. We are now at P-68G. The next one would be P-266A and the rest I will do in closed session. I will make the application at an appropriate time. So there are really only two left for this open session, P-68G. Is it marked? Yes. I have a clean copy. Can you please show it to --

  • Before you do so, is this not a confidential exhibit? This is a confidential exhibit, so perhaps you could defer this one.

  • Very well. I will deal with it when I deal with other confidential exhibits. May I have it back, please, and could you show the witness this clean copy of P-266A. Thank you:

  • Madam Kallon, can you look at the photograph, please?

  • May it be displayed.

  • The one in the middle is Foday Sankoh.

  • Madam Court Officer, could you please display it and could Madam Kallon be handed a pen, please. Could we also zoom out so that the entire photograph is visible:

  • Now, Madam Kallon, take your time, point to anyone you recognise and tell us the person's name.

  • This one in the middle is Foday Sankoh. Then this other woman who is wearing the white short sleeves shirt is Josephine Tengbeh.

  • Do you recognise anyone else in the photograph, Madam Kallon?

  • Yes, I have seen some, but I don't know their names.

  • Mr Anyah, let me just say this for the record. That the witness has identified the gentleman in the middle holding two ladies' hands as Foday Sankoh and the lady to the left side of the photograph wearing a short sleeve blouse as Josephine Tengbeh.

  • Thank you, Madam President:

  • Madam Kallon, what other faces do you recognise that you do not remember the names?

  • The other person standing behind Josephine Tengbeh, I can recognise him, but I don't know his name.

  • Anyone else that you can recognise but you do not know the name?

  • There is another man standing at the corner wearing spectacles. He's Pilo Bangura.

  • Did you say Pilo? What is the first name of Bangura?

  • That's the name I know.

  • Madam President, this would be the man in a green shirt on the far right of the photograph with glasses on the witness has identified as Pilo Bangura, and Pilo I would spell phonetically P-I-L-O, and Bangura, normal spelling:

  • Is there anyone else you recognise on the photograph, Madam Kallon?

  • This other face in this corner, I knew someone who looked like this person, but I don't know if that's the same person. I knew a Pa called Pa Jalloh. I don't know if this is the person. I'm not very sure.

  • It's a pity that when the witness was testifying the photograph was not on the overhead. So, Madam Witness, please point again so that we can see what you were saying.

  • Madam Kallon, the other person you referred to that you were not sure of their name but you appear to recognise was whom? Can you point to that person with the pen?

  • This particular person. It looks like Pa Jalloh who used to work in the place, but because I cannot see his face clearly, I will not be very sure.

  • Madam President, may I indicate, subject to your approval, that the witness has pointed to the image of a man to the immediate left of Foday Sankoh's face on the photograph, indicating that she is not sure of his name but that he appears similar to someone she knew as Pa Jalloh.

  • That's fair enough.

  • Thank you. Thank you, Madam Kallon. You can resume your seat. And thank you, Madam Court Officer.

    Madam President, at a later time today I would make a request for a closed session to deal with certain confidential exhibits:

  • Now, Madam Kallon, actually, in relation to the photographs, can I ask you this: How good is your eyesight? Do you see well when you look at documents? Did you hear the question, Madam Kallon?

  • Repeat the question.

  • Yes. Your vision, your eyes, do you see well when you look at documents, in this instance, photographs?

  • My eyesight is not very good. If the image is very small, it will be difficult for me to see it clearly.

  • Very well. Thank you. Now, Madam Kallon, I want to switch topics and I want us to consider some of the evidence that this Court has heard during the course of this trial. Witnesses have come before this Court. Before you are now testifying, others have come and they have told the Court about various events and I want read to you some of what has been said to the Court and I want to get your reaction or responses to some of what I'll read to you.

    Now, the first transcript I wish to consider with you is from 4 February 2008. That's 4 February 2008 beginning at page 3053. It's an open session transcript, page 3053. The witness who was then testifying before the Court was TF1-360. I wonder if has - I think it has been pulled up, but for some reason I am unable to see it. Yes, I see it. Very well. Now, 4 February 2008.

    Madam Kallon, do you know somebody by the name of Perry Kamara?

  • Repeat the name.

  • Yes. Perry Kamara.

  • Yes, I used to see him, but we were not very close.

  • Who is Perry Kamara?

  • He was an RUF fighter.

  • Is that the only name you know him by?

  • Yes, that's the only name I know for him. We were not close to each other.

  • Do you know what role he played within the RUF?

  • Well, Perry Kamara came before the Court, and he testified here during the month of February in 2008. At line 5 of that transcript - and the transcript is no longer up. Yes, there is it. Line 5, there's a question asked of him:

    "Q. Do you recall what sort of subjects would be discussed

    at this time that there were no supplies coming through?

    What would be the subject of their communication?

    A. Yes, you know, as we all observed the process in Sierra

    Leone, Mr Sankoh always - was always advised by Mr Taylor.

    At any time Mr Sankoh received message from Mr Taylor we

    will undertake a serious attack. The RUF will attack the

    government troops. On many occasions as a radioman of the

    RUF I received, I monitored, I read from the logbooks, for

    example, when a place like Sierra Rutile, because Sankoh

    told us that he wanted to look for a major place that he

    would attack according to Mr Taylor's advice."

    Let's pause there. Madam Kallon, there is reference here by King Perry to him being a radioman for the RUF. I referred to him as King Perry and I asked you about Perry Kamara. Let me start again. The person you know as Perry Kamara, do you know if he also answered the name King Perry?

  • He responded to the name but as I told you, we were not close.

  • If you listen to what I just read, there is reference there by this person to the fact that they were a radioman or radio operator for the RUF. There is also reference to a place called Sierra Rutile. Do you know where Sierra Rutile is, Madam Kallon?

  • No.

  • Do you know in which country it is?

  • I know it's in Sierra Leone, but I have never been there.

  • Well, let's continue with Perry Kamara's evidence. After Sierra Rutile is spelt, at line 19 the witness Perry Kamara is told to continue, and he continues with his answer at line 20:

    "And so in his conversation with Taylor he said, 'You

    should either attack the major places like Kono or Sierra

    Rutile'. As a result he chose to attack Sierra Rutile and

    the attack on Sierra Rutile was a successful one."

    And then he says that Sierra Rutile is in Bonthe District in the southern part of Sierra Leone. We go over to the next page, page 3054.

    Madam President, is there --

  • Yes, I think - I'm advised - I don't know - Madam Prosecutor, that this particular witness we are discussing, although he testified openly, testified using his pseudonym. Is that true?

  • No, Madam President. He did use his name.

  • Very well. I stand corrected. Thank you.

  • Thank you, Madam President:

  • We go over to the next page, page 3054. Perry Kamara says:

    "A. Well, Sierra Rutile is a mining company. They dug for

    bauxite and other minerals that I don't know of.

    Q. When was this attack on Sierra Rutile?

    A. It was in late 1994 to 5.

    Q. What happened during the attack?

    A. During this attack the RUF reported about the manager

    and otherwise that were captured together with him and

    also the missions commander for that particular mission was

    CO Mohamed Tarawalli. He came with money and the money was

    in the rice bag together with the white man. When they

    brought this money the money was reported to Foday Sankoh

    and all of these went through the radio message. And

    anything that happened at that time the communications

    systems in the total RUF will receive that message at the

    time. When they brought this money, we monitored a call,

    he called the NPFL radio station and he sent message to

    Mr Taylor about this money and when Mr Taylor told him

    that, 'You have to save that money to do some other things

    with it, for instance to get ammunition, food and drugs for

    your fighters.' Then he kept the money for some time.

    Then also, 'You can use this money to establish diplomatic

    relationship with the outside world.' He showed him ways

    to establish the diplomatic relationship with the outside

    world. He told him, and then he did it. We all saw it. I

    saw it myself.

    Q. How was he advised? How was Foday Sankoh advised to

    establish a diplomatic relationship with the outside world?

    A. What he did, he said the civilians that were amongst us

    who were educated people, he should send them through

    Guinea because by then the Liberian border was closed. He

    said he should be able to send them through Guinea so that

    they can travel to Ivory Coast and then buy a house there,

    get a base there and then get a radio communications there.

    But how will they have done this? He said they should do

    that through the white men who were captured at Rutile and

    at the time they should be released. That was the time the

    people should go with them. Who was appointed for that

    mission was Fayia Musa, Deen-Jalloh, Mr Palmer and their

    families."

    Let's pause there. Madam Kallon, Perry Kamara, if you understand what I've just read, was saying to the Court that Foday Sankoh spoke with Charles Taylor. Foday Sankoh received advice from Charles Taylor about sending the educated civilians within them, that is, the RUF, the educated people, through Guinea so they could travel to Ivory Coast, and that in the Ivory Coast they should buy a house and they should be based there. This was to be accomplished through the white men who had been captured at Rutile, that at the time of the release of the white men who had been captured, they should go with the white men. The persons they named here that were appointed for that mission were Fayia Musa, Deen-Jalloh, Mr Palmer and their families. Are you aware of this particular mission that Perry Kamara was telling the Court about?

  • I don't know about this one.

  • Well, you told us about taking Philip Palmer, Deen and Agnes Jalloh, your husband Daniel GG Kallon, also known as Pa Kallon, somebody named Alhaji Fofana and somebody named Pa Kamara, as well as somebody named Kono Manie. You told us about taking those persons from Sierra Leone into Guinea. Do you remember telling us that?

  • Yes, I was the one who took those first set of people, and I went with them.

  • During that time you took that first group of people - and you remember telling us that Fayia Musa, you took him during a second trip when you took a radioman by the name of Philip Sannoh, as well as Pa Barrie or Alhaji Barrie, but keep that aside for now. During the first trip when you took Palmer, Agnes and Deen-Jalloh and the others to Guinea, were you accompanied by some white men?

  • I'm referring to the trip when you took Palmer, Pa Kamara, Pa Kallon, Deen and Agnes Jalloh, Kono Manie and the rest. Were there any white men that travelled with all of you?

  • Were there any white men who had been held hostage or captive by the RUF that travelled with all of you into Guinea during the first trip?

  • No.

  • We continue with Perry Kamara's, same page, page 3055. Learned counsel opposite Mr Bangura, I believe, was speaking. The question was:

    "Q. Mr Witness, can you just briefly explain again, it

    wasn't quite clear to me, how the timing of setting up a

    diplomatic relationship should be linked to the white men.

    It was not clear. Can you explain that again, please? You

    mentioned something about one should be timed to the other.

    A. Okay, during the time he said this was when he said

    that when we will be leaving to release those people,

    the whites who were captured from Sierra Rutile and he said

    that should be the same time that the people were

    appointing; that we were using them as civilians as

    hostages and we should leave all of them together, release

    all of them together to go. As long as they have money

    they will travel to Ivory Coast and that was how it

    happened. When the Red Cross came to receive the white

    people they all went together with Deen-Jalloh. We just

    pretended as though they were people who were also captured

    so we are now releasing them to go and then when they went

    they went with the money and established a base in the

    Ivory Coast. That was where they were. When they got to

    the Ivory Coast they bought a house for the RUF and bought

    a radio and that was where they were based and from there

    we received another stranger. He was called Dr Simbo.

    Dr Simbo was a man who brought instruments."

    Let's pause there. King Perry elaborated on his answer. He said the plan was when they were releasing these white men who had been captured by the RUF, at that time they would release others to go with them. Those others had not been captured, but they would just accompany the white men and they would go and set a base or establish a base in the Ivory Coast. He said when the Red Cross came to receive the white people, they all went together with Deen-Jalloh. Madam Kallon, do you remember an instance when white persons were held hostage by the RUF, the Red Cross was involved and the white persons were released to Deen-Jalloh? Do you recall such an event ever happening?

  • Can I explain that area?

  • What I know is that Deen-Jalloh did not go out with white people. Deen-Jalloh and others. It was myself who took them out. There were no white people. The white people's issue was a different one. That was to help to release them. That was a different issue. So if somebody came here and said that it was Deen-Jalloh and the white people, that was not how it obtained.

  • Well, Madam Kallon, I'm trying to understand what you just said. I understood some of it. You said, "What I know is that Deen-Jalloh did not go out with white people." He did not go out from where?

  • From Sierra Leone into Guinea. He did not go with white people.

  • You said, "It was myself who took them out." And then the record has you as saying, "There were no white people." Who are you saying you took out?

  • I was the one who took them out from Sierra Leone into Guinea. There was no white man there.

  • Yes. Which people did you take out from Sierra Leone? Just remind us, who are the people you're referring to now that you took out from Sierra Leone?

  • Deen-Jalloh and his wife, Pa Alhaji Fofana, Pa Kamara, Pa Kono Manie and my husband and myself and Palmer. All of us left the same day.

  • Thank you for that response. Let me ask it another way. After you had removed Deen-Jalloh and Agnes Jalloh from Sierra Leone and taken them to Danane, do you know whether another time came upon when Deen-Jalloh returned to Sierra Leone and removed some white men from Sierra Leone?

  • I did not know that one.

  • Mind you, Perry Kamara give us a time frame here. He said the attack on Sierra Rutile was in late 1994 to '95. Did you ever hear before Maada Bio came into power that Deen-Jalloh went into Sierra Leone and removed some white men that had been held captive by the RUF?

  • No.

  • Now, you heard Perry Kamara say that when they got to Ivory Coast they bought a house for the RUF and bought a radio. When you testified here either yesterday or on Friday, the 18th, you said houses were rented for those who went to Danane and then you spoke of a second trip with Philip Sannoh, Alhaji Barrie, yourself, where you took a radio along with you. You said you carried that radio; it had been given to you by Philip Sannoh. Now, do you know whether before you took that radio with Philip Sannoh outside Sierra Leone those who were in Danane in the Ivory Coast already had a radio?

  • They did not have a radio.

  • Do you know whether they bought a house for the RUF?

  • Now, you heard King Perry mention somebody called Dr Simbo. You have testified about somebody called Dr Sebo. You mentioned this Dr Sebo in relation to a trip you made with him from the Ivory Coast to Guinea, specifically Gueckedou, and how you took him through the Guinean-Sierra Leonean border into Sierra Leone. You said Dr Sebo went there because some white men had been held hostage by the RUF.

    King Perry mentions Dr Sebo in relation to the white men and Deen-Jalloh. He said it was around the time that the white people went with Deen-Jalloh that they received another stranger. After the RUF had based in the Ivory Coast, bought a house, bought a radio, they received another stranger called Dr Simbo, that Dr Simbo was a man who bought instruments.

    First question, Madam Kallon, do you know somebody called Dr Simbo, Simbo?

  • Yes, I know him.

  • Is that different from the person you referred to in court as Dr Sebo?

  • That's the only name I know for that man.

  • No. The question - listen to the pronunciation. Perry Kamara referred to him as Simbo. Simbo. You have told us he is Sebo. Does that sound like the same person to you?

  • Yes, because we refer to him differently.

  • Who took Dr Sebo into Sierra Leone?

  • Let me continue reading what Perry Kamara told the Court. Same page, 3056. I stopped at line 12. The spelling of Simbo is then put on the record and then Perry Kamara was asked to continue his response and he said:

    "A. Dr Simbo when I saw him, he was a man that brought

    satellite phone from Ivory Coast through - he passed

    through Liberia. He said he came from Liberia but he

    passed through Ivory Coast and entered into the RUF

    territory. At that time we had now established

    communication with the people that we sent to Ivory Coast

    and that was when himself and Sankoh spoke and he said he

    had a satellite phone - he had satellite phone that he was

    doing business with. And then he said they passed through

    - he came from Liberia and then he went to Ivory Coast,

    Kailahun, Zogoda and then he brought the satellite phone

    that Sankoh was using in 1995 up to 1996 when Sankoh left."

    Let's pause there. Madam Kallon, the Dr Sebo that you met in the vicinity of Danane, that you took to Gueckedou, that you kept in a hotel in Gueckedou when you went to the Gbemalu riverside to find a way to get into Sierra Leone, that you picked up from the hotel, took across Gbemalu into Sierra Leone, did that Dr Sebo carry a satellite phone with him?

  • I did not see him with a satellite phone. The only thing I saw with him was a camera. He used to take out his camera and he took pictures with it. I did not look into his bag, but his bag was a small one.

  • That Dr Sebo that you took into Sierra Leone, did he tell you that before then he had already spoken to Foday Sankoh over the satellite phone? That is, did he tell you that before you and him entered Sierra Leone he had been speaking with Foday Sankoh on the satellite phone?

  • Do you remember telling us that he came to you so you could make contact with the RUF regarding the hostages? You remember telling us that?

  • Yes, he came to me, I said that.

  • Do you know whether apart from you he had found another way before meeting you that he made contact with the RUF?

  • When you took Dr Sebo into Sierra Leone you said you remained where your husband was and he went ahead. I think the place your husband was at the time was Pumudu. Do you know whether he carried a satellite phone that he gave to Foday Sankoh during that trip when you went to free to white men?

  • I did not look into the man's bag, but I told you that he had a small bag hung on him. But I did not see that.

  • Let's go over to the next page, Perry Kamara's evidence from 4 February 2008. The page is 3057, starting at line 3. Madam Kallon, this is still Perry Kamara answering questions before the Court. Line 3 a question was asked:

    "Q. Mr Witness, can you again tell the Court the route

    that you understood Mr Simbo to have taken - Dr Simbo to

    have taken to come to Zogoda?

    A. According to what Mr Simbo said, he said he was from

    Liberia. He went to Ivory Coast to Mr Deen-Jalloh and

    others. He said he did not stay too long then he managed

    to enter Guinea, but in Guinea the RUF people who were the

    senior people like Mamie Iye, they used to disguise and

    enter into Guinea. For example, that woman entered into

    Guinea and then she was captured by the Guinean government

    and sent back over back to Sierra Leone to the Sierra

    Leonean government. Then Dr Simbo also used that

    opportunity and in fact he was escorted by Mamie Iye and

    then he took her from Ivory Coast, they came to Guinea and

    then he managed, escaped and entered into Sierra Leone.

    That was how he entered. And when he game to Ngiema, that

    was in Kailahun, he was given few security escorts."

    And then your name is spelt. They spell Mamie Iye and then at line 25 Perry Kamara said, after having been asked:

    "Q. Now where did Dr Simbo come from? Where was he coming

    from?

    A. He was from Liberia and went to Ivory Coast to join a

    delegation that was based there. From there himself and

    Mamie Iye managed to enter Sierra Leone through Guinea.

    That was how they passed."

    Let's pause there, Madam Kallon. You heard reference to your name, Mamie I. Perry Kamara told this Court that Dr Simbo was from Liberia. You told us that the person you knew as Dr Sebo was a Ghanaian. Do you know whether Dr Simbo, when you met him in Ivory Coast, had just come from Liberia?

  • No.

  • When you say no, is that it did not happen; or you do not know where he had come from?

  • I saw him in Ivory Coast. He did not tell me that he had come from Liberia.

  • Do you know whether, when he was in the Ivory Coast, he met Deen-Jalloh either before or after he met you?

  • I was the first person to see Dr Sebo. At that time Deen-Jalloh and others were inside.

  • You hear Perry Kamara saying that Dr Simbo used that opportunity, and the opportunity he's referring to here appears to be the time you were arrested in Guinea, captured and sent by the Guinean government to Sierra Leone. Now, was it the time when you, James Massallay --

  • Sorry, Mr Anyah. You seem to be interpreting the evidence in terms of time span, but I'm not sure that you're doing so accurately. I think when Perry Kamara was testifying he alluded to the time that Mamie I was arrested. I'm not sure that the opportunity he's referring to refers to time, rather than the opportunity to use Mamie I and her connections to go through or to smuggle Dr Simbo through. You see the difference? I'm not sure what "opportunity" meant. It certainly didn't - I don't think it referred to time.

  • May I respond? Yes, I agree with your Honour and I see the distinction, but I am trying to read the transcript faithfully and when you look at the context, what flows from the other naturally - and I should note there has been no objection thus far. But in any event, reading that transcript - and we could look at the relevant portions starting at line 9 of that page --

  • Could we see the transcript again, please.

  • At line 9 on that page when Perry Kamara says, "... but in Guinea the RUF people who were the senior people like Mamie Iye, they used to disguise and enter into Guinea." And here is the example. He says:

    "For example, that woman entered into Guinea and then she was captured by the Guinean government and sent over back to Sierra Leone to the Sierra Leonean government. Then Dr Simbo also used that opportunity and in fact he was escorted by Mamie Iye."

    I understand Madam President's point, and there are ways I can address the issue without making that necessary logical leap. Thank you:

  • Madam Kallon, at the time you took Dr Simbo - Sebo into Sierra Leone, at whose request did you do that?

  • At the beginning it was Dr Sebo himself with whom I spoke, but at that time he was at Red Cross. He had the Red Cross ID card. It was attached to his pocket. So I spoke with Dr Sebo.

  • No, I'm asking you who asked you to take Dr Sebo into Sierra Leone?

  • Nobody. It was myself. I did that willingly.

  • But did Dr Sebo ask you to assist him into Sierra Leone?

  • Yes, he was the one who told me that those white people - that Red Cross had given him that assignment to find a way to release them. So he spoke to me so, I accepted.

  • The time when you took Dr Sebo into Sierra Leone, was that before or was it after the time you, James Massallay and the rest were arrested in Conakry, Guinea?

  • I went with Dr Sebo before anybody came out.

  • Before anybody came out of where?

  • I mean, Deen-Jalloh and others.

  • Very well. Now, let me just finish the last part of Perry Kamara's evidence. That same page, 3057. Question at line 29:

    "Q. Before he got to Liberia where did he come from? Did

    he say where he was coming from?

    A. No, only told us that he was from Liberia. He met our

    delegation in Ivory Coast. Besides Liberia, Ivory Coast

    and Guinea he didn't tell me about any other area."

    I had asked you this question in relation to Deen-Jalloh, but let me ask it again in relation to the rest. Did you have the impression that Dr Sebo had met with any of the RUF members in Danane before you took him into Sierra Leone?

  • No, there was nobody there.

  • Thank you, Madam Kallon. Now, that's it for Perry Kamara. Let's move on to another witness. This is the transcript for 14 April 2008. The witness in question testified using a pseudonym. The pseudonym is TF1-516. April 14, 2008, page 7480.

    Now, Madam Kallon, just listen to what this witness said. It's a very short excerpt I wish to read. Starting at line 25 of that page, learned counsel opposite, Mr Bangura - well, I was asking the questions. I asked the witness a question:

    "Q. Do you know somebody by the name of Steve Bio,

    Mr Witness?

    A. Bio?"

    Mr Bangura having assisted with the proper pronunciation of Bio, then on the next page, page 7481, the witness gives his answer:

    "A. I can remember that name Steve Bio.

    Q. Who is Steve Bio?

    A. That he was also a man working in the interests of the

    external delegation of the RUF and the external delegation

    of the RUF comprises one Palmer - Captain Palmer,

    Deen-Jalloh, and Fayia Musa and who was the spokesperson of

    the RUF at that time, Pa Kallon and one other woman I don't

    know, Iye, something Iye. And Steve Bio used to direct

    them, he used to move with them, more especially during

    the time the general adjutant of the RUF Kposowa had

    communication link with the soldiers, the Sierra Leone

    soldiers."

    Then they spell Iye for the record. Madam Kallon, do you know somebody by the name of Steve Bio?

  • No. I heard the name, but I didn't know him.

  • Did somebody named Steve Bio used to move with you and the others who were in Danane: Deen-Jalloh, Philip Palmer, Fayia Musa?

  • No, during my time I did not come across him.

  • This witness, TF1-516, told the Court that Steve Bio used to direct you and others, those who were part of what he referred to as external delegation of the RUF. Did Steve Bio direct you in any way, Madam Kallon?

  • I don't know him in person even. No.

  • Now, when I read Perry Kamara's evidence, Perry Kamara said that the advice to Foday Sankoh to attack Sierra Rutile came from Charles Taylor. Perry Kamara was not the only witness who came here and said that. Another witness, TF1-045, said the same thing and the relevant page for that assertion is the transcript of 12 November 2008, page 20097 into the following page 20098. I will read some of TF1-045's evidence very briefly just to ask you one question, Madam Kallon. This is the transcript from 12 November 2008. The witness is Augustine Sama Mallah. Madam Kallon, do you know somebody by the name of Augustine Mallah?

  • No.

  • Do you know somebody in the RUF who had the nickname of OG?

  • No.

  • Do you know someone in the RUF who answered the nickname of Smog?

  • Very well. Mr Mallah came here, this is at page - let's start at the previous page 20096. Just the page before the one that was just displayed. At line 23 the question was asked of Mr Mallah:

    "Q. How long did you remain assigned at Zogoda?

    A. I was there from 1994 up to the ending of 1994, when

    Foday Sankoh said that he was going to send me on a mission

    to Sierra Rutile."

    And then on to the next page, Mr Mallah said that Mohamed Tarawalli was the field commander who was to lead them on that mission. We go to line 12 of that page, Mr Mallah was asked what the mission to Sierra Rutile was and Mr Mallah spoke of Mohamed Tarawalli coming to join them, that Foday Sankoh told them that he had received advice that they should go and attack Sierra Rutile, that Foday Sankoh said the advice came from the other side, they were in a formation and Foday Sankoh said the advice came from the other side that they should attack Sierra Rutile and terrorise the area, starting with the civilians, the towns, and to capture if possible the white employees who were there. At line 28 a question was asked of Augustine Mallah:

    "Q. And when he said he received advice from the other

    side, did he tell you what he meant by that?

    A. Yes, he later told us that it was from Charles Taylor."

    And when we read along that page, page 20098, Augustine Mallah said that Foday Sankoh told them they needed to do something which would be of concern to the Sierra Leonean government and the international community. He went on later in his response to say that Foday Sankoh said they should destroy the company's equipment and property, they should burn the entire area, and at line 23 he said, this is Foday Sankoh told them, "He said if possible we should capture the white people who had been employed there and we should send them to him." And at line 28 Augustine Mallah continued, "He said that would raise concern to the international community."

    On the next page 20099 and into 20100 Augustine Mallah talks about how the mission was carried out and how they captured white employees, four of them at a Sironco Company, and how they captured three employees at Sierra Rutile and four at Monkanji, for a total of seven. The Sironco Company was in Monkanji, they captured a total of seven employees and that they sent the white employees, and that they sent the white employees whom they had captured, seven of them, to Foday Sankoh at Zogoda.

    Let's pause there. Madam Kallon, you told us of the RUF capture of white men and you mentioned I believe Kabala and you mentioned another place, I think you said Panguma. What places do you remember these white employees - sorry, these white men you referred to were captured from?

  • I only know that it was in Sierra Leone, but I couldn't understand their different areas where they were captured.

  • In relation to the white employees that were captured regarding whom you took Dr Sebo into Sierra Leone, did you ever hear anyone say that it was Charles Taylor who advised the RUF to capture those men?

  • No, I did not hear that.

  • Thank you, Madam Kallon. Shall we go to another transcript, please, this is the transcript of 10 March 2008, starting at page 5661. The witness testifying was Isaac Mongor. Line 3, page 5661.

    Madam Kallon, somebody named Isaac Mongor came before this Court in March 2008 and they testified for a rather lengthy period of time, some eight days, some of it occurring in April 2008. I want to read to you what this person who called themselves Isaac Mongor said to the Court. Line 3:

    "Q. Mr Witness, when was it? Do you recall the year it

    was that you were given this new assignment?"

    The witness had earlier on said that they were given a new assignment to go and train people who were to go and fight in Sierra Leone. It's at the top of that same page. So Isaac Mongor said he was given an assignment to go and train people who were to go and fight in Sierra Leone. His response was:

    "It was in 1990. That was the time I was given the assignment to go and train those people."

    And then at line 10 he narrows it down to somewhere around March or April of 1990. He says he cannot be exact but it could be within that period, March or April 1990 he receives this assignment.

    At line 15 of that page Isaac Mongor says at that time he was one of the Executive Mansion Guards and he's referring to his time with the NPFL he was an Executive Mansion Guard and he was given an assignment.

    Shall we go to the next page, page 5662. At line 4 he said:

    "He called me to go and train people who will go and fight in Sierra Leone, so he handed me over to his friend, that is Pa Morlai, for me to go and assist train his people."

    He's speaking of Mr Taylor here. Isaac Mongor says Mr Taylor handed him over to Pa Morlai to go and assist and train Pa Morlai's people. Madam Kallon, I see you are smiling, but just listen, I will pose the question and you will be able to express your views on this.

    Now, continuing on that page at line 17, Isaac Mongor said:

    "A. It was Mr Taylor who told me to go with his brother

    who was Pa Morlai for me to assist him train his people.

    He was the one who told me."

    "Q. Where exactly were you when Mr Taylor told you to go

    and train Foday Sankoh's people?

    A. I was on the ground where Mr Taylor was, that is his

    Executive Mansion, that is Gbarnga. That was where I was

    when he handed me over to Foday Sankoh for me to go and

    train his people."

    We go to the next page, page 5663, line 6, Isaac Mongor said:

    "I went through the training at Camp Naama and that was the AFL military base. That was the area and we had already been in control of that area, so that was the area where they sent me to to train the people."

    He goes on to say that Charles Taylor had given that place to Foday Sankoh for his men to be trained there. He referred to the place as Camp Naama in Bong County in Liberia. We go to lines 20, 21. They asked Isaac Mongor:

    "Q. Who were the people that were training there?

    A. Well, I was training people there who were Sierra

    Leoneans and I had already told you that Mr Taylor had

    passed an order that they should arrest Sierra Leoneans and

    Nigerians, and who had already been jailed. So at the

    time, when the issue of the training came up, those Sierra

    Leoneans who were already in jail, we used to go to their

    cells and then take them to the base. We will take them

    from there to the base. So, Mr Taylor had given us one

    Toyota truck that was what we used to transport the

    recruits to the base."

    Let's pause there. Madam Kallon, you mentioned somebody by the name of Isaac Mingo. You said you were in Firestone, Harbel, when this person came back one day with John Kargbo. You identified that person first as NPFL. You said you housed them in the house of another person not far from yours right there in Harbel. You said you provided assistance to Kargbo, Isaac and the others. I think one other person you mentioned at that time was Bangura. You said that after Pa Morlai had moved his people to Sokoto, also known as Camp Naama, that this person Isaac was still with you in the vicinity of Harbel, and you said all of a sudden one day he disappeared and when he came back, Kargbo and others asked him where he had been, and that's when he said he had been at Camp Naama. And you spoke of a discussion he had with Kargbo, where Kargbo told him something to the effect that he wasn't Sierra Leonean and he should not expect to receive a position or a high position by virtue of having gone to Sokoto.

    Now, someone named Isaac Mongor came here. First question: This person said they were training Sierra Leoneans at Camp Naama. The person you know as Isaac Mingo, Madam Kallon, to your knowledge did that person train any of Foday Sankoh's people at Camp Naama?

  • Repeat the question.

  • Yes. The person you know as Isaac Mingo who came with John Kargbo first as NPFL, do you know whether that person ever trained anyone, any one of Foday Sankoh's people, at Camp Naama?

  • He was the one who told us that he had come from that place. But when he was going there, he did not tell anyone.

  • Did he tell you what he did when he was at Camp Naama?

  • He explained to us that he helped Mohamed and others. That was when there was that dispute between himself, and Kargbo and Mohamed said do you think if you got there you'd be - you would have a high position in Sierra Leone when you are not a Sierra Leonean? That is the problem they had.

  • This person Isaac Mingo, did he tell you that he was sent to Camp Naama to help by Charles Taylor?

  • What does the witness mean when she says he explained that he helped Mohamed and others? Helped them do what?

  • Madam Kallon, when this person Isaac Mingo told you that he went to help Mohamed and others, did he say what exactly he did, how he helped Mohamed?

  • He said he went to Camp Naama to help Mohamed and others to train the boys. That was when the dispute erupted.

  • Now, this person Isaac Mingo that you knew, was he going around freeing Sierra Leoneans who had been jailed in Liberia?

  • No.

  • To your knowledge, at that time did Charles Taylor provide Foday Sankoh with a Toyota truck?

  • To your knowledge, was a Toyota truck being used to move boys or men and women to Camp Naama, that is, by Foday Sankoh?

  • There was a truck, but I did not know the name of the truck.

  • Very well. Is that the same truck you described last week as belonging to Anthony Mekunagbe?

  • Yes, that's the truck.

  • Very well. Now, continuing with Isaac Mongor's evidence, shall we go to page 5665, please, same day's transcript, 10 March 2008, line 12:

    "Q. When you were a trainer at Camp Naama what rank did

    you have then?

    A. I was a lieutenant.

    Q. Do you recall the names of any of the other trainers at

    the camp?

    A. I was one, Mohamed Tarawalli, Mike Lamin, Sam Dripo,

    Gongano, Rashid Mansaray. We were the people who used to

    train those men."

    Madam Kallon, you spoke of Rashid Mansaray, you spoke of Mohamed Tarawalli. Do you know whether those persons had any rank, that is, military rank, at the time they were at Camp Sokoto?

  • No, I did not know their ranks. They only referred to them as COs.

  • And do you know what "CO" means?

  • All the senior men were referred to as COs.

  • Shall we go to line 26, please, of that page. Question to Isaac Mongor:

    "Q. Were all of you teaching the same subjects, or were

    there different subjects covered by different trainers?

    A. Yes, we had different subjects that we used to teach.

    Like in my case, and together with Mohamed Tarawalli,

    Gongano, Sam Dripo, we gave them the physical training..." Now listen to this, Madam Kallon. Isaac Mongor said:

    "... but I was the first person who had been there for

    almost six months before the others met me there."

    Let's pause. What Isaac Mongor is telling the Court - you remember how this all started - he said he was given an assignment to go and train Foday Sankoh's men. This assignment was given to him by Charles Taylor, who he referred to as the brother of Pa Morlai. He said he received this assignment about March or April of 1990, and later on here, based on what I've read, he tells the Court that he was the first person who had been at this Camp Naama for almost six months before the other persons came and met him there.

  • Mr Anyah, this is another area that you're interpreting. I interpret it differently. If we could have the transcript again, there are possible interpretations. The witness Isaac Mongor - is it Isaac Mongor again? He's given a litany of persons that were involved in physical training.

  • And others later on that were involved in other kinds of training. But of the people involved in physical training, he was the first for almost six months. That is how I understand his testimony.

    Now, what you are putting to the witness is that he was the first of all the trainers, including others, that were not involved in physical training. I don't particularly agree.

  • Then I will ask my questions consistent with the understanding of your Honours. Let's take Mohamed Tarawalli. That should solve the issue:

  • Madam Kallon, Isaac Mongor is telling the Court that he was there first. He was there for almost six months before others met him there, and one possible other who met him there was Mohamed Tarawalli. Now, you told us of seeing Pa Morlai with Rashid Mansaray and Mohamed Tarawalli. Do you know whether the person you know as Isaac Mingo went to Camp Naama before Mohamed Tarawalli?

  • What do you mean, no? You don't know, or it did not happen that way?

  • That is not how it happened. He did not go there early.

  • Who did not go there early?

  • Isaac Mingo.

  • When you first went to visit Camp Naama, your first visit, do you know whether this person Isaac Mingo was there at that time?

  • No, he wasn't there.

  • How about during your second visit to Camp Naama? By that time was this person Isaac Mingo there, if you recall?

  • At that time I did not see him there. Even if he was there, maybe he hid. But I did not see him.

  • Very well. Let's continue with Isaac Mongor's testimony. Same page, line 9, a question is asked of Isaac Mongor:

    "Q. At the camp did the recruits have food provided for

    them?

    A. Yes, we used to receive supplies from Gbarnga. We used

    to receive rice that they used to bring in bags. We used

    to receive medicines.

    Q. Did you have any weapons or ammunition in the camp?

    A. We had weapons that were there with Foday Sankoh and

    myself, who was an instructor, I had my own personal weapon

    that I took to the place there and Mike Lamin himself - all

    of us who were instructors, we all had weapons.

    Q. Where did the weapons come from?

    A. Those weapons came from Gbarnga and they were NPFL

    property.

    Q. When you talked about the rice and supplies coming from

    Gbarnga, where in Gbarnga did it come from? From who?

    A. The supplies were coming from the Executive Ground,

    that is Gbarnga where Mr Taylor was, and it was Mr Taylor

    who used to supply those foods to us."

    Let's pause. Madam Kallon, you have told us of the supplies you provided to Foday Sankoh and those he was training at Camp Naama. You spoke of going there and cooking for them. You spoke of taking things like cassava, potatoes, rice to them --

  • My recollection is the witness never said rice. She talked about cassava, potatoes, other things. She never said rice.

  • That is true. That's my recollection too.

  • I will double-check:

  • Madam Kallon, you mentioned the various items you took to Camp Naama including soap. My recollection is that - well, tell us what items you took to Camp Naama. Madam Kallon, can you tell us or remind us of what items you took to Camp Naama?

  • Yes.

  • I used to go with cassava, cocoa-yams, potato, soap, palm oil. I used to go with those things. And when the Pa would come he used to ask me for money.

  • Thank you, Madam Kallon. Did you ever take rice to Camp Naama?

  • The rice that I took there was a locally produced rice.

  • Very well. You remember telling us in relation to medicines, this is at page 42711 of the transcript of 16 June, you said there was a Dr Fabai and also a medical person called Kamara. That Dr Fabai would treat those who were ill at Camp Naama. Do you remember telling us that last week?

  • Yes.

  • Now, let's consider Isaac Mongor's evidence. Isaac Mongor said that they received supplies from Gbarnga. They used to receive rice in bags. Did you ever hear of those at Camp Naama receiving rice from Gbarnga, in particular from Mr Taylor?

  • I did not hear about that.

  • Did you ever hear of those who were training at Camp Naama receiving medicines from Gbarnga, in particular from Mr Taylor?

  • No. It was Dr Fabai. That's what I know about.

  • Did you ever hear of any sort of supplies coming to those who were training at Camp Naama with Foday Sankoh from the Executive Ground in Gbarnga?

  • No.

  • How about weapons or ammunition, did you hear that Charles Taylor provided any ammunition or arms to those who were training at Camp Naama?

  • I did not hear that, nor did I see it.

  • Thank you, Madam Kallon. Shall we go to the next page, page 5667, the transcript of 10 March 2008, Isaac Mongor's evidence. Starting at line 9, a question was asked of Isaac Mongor:

    "Q. Now, you mentioned that Foday Sankoh was at Camp

    Naama. Did you hear Foday Sankoh speaking to the recruits?

    A. Yes, Foday Sankoh used to speak to the recruits.

    Q. Do you recall now anything that he would tell the

    recruits at Camp Naama?

    A. Well, he used to tell them that Sierra Leone had a

    one-party system at that time, so the country was corrupt

    and that he was training them for them to go and free the

    people from that one-party system and for them to take over

    power and rule the country. So, those were the things that

    he used to tell the men during parade, and that they should

    be strong and that they should be courageous.

    Q. Did he ever indicate, that you can recall, how he would

    accomplish this task of taking over the country in Sierra

    Leone?

    A. Well, he used to say that, 'When you are here and you

    are training I can say I am a poor man, I don't have money,

    but all that I am doing here it is my brother, who is

    Mr Taylor, that is doing it.' So, that is what he used to

    tell the men.

    Q. Would you yourself ever talk privately with Foday

    Sankoh?

    A. Yes, I used to talk with Foday Sankoh.

    Q. Did Foday Sankoh ever mention Mr Taylor in your

    discussions with him?

    A. Yes, he used to talk about Mr Taylor.

    Q. Can you recall now anything he said about Mr Taylor?

    A. Well, he said that Mr Taylor was his brother and that

    what he was doing, that is when he was training those men,

    it was Mr Taylor who was doing it for him and that after

    the completion of the training for them to go it was

    Mr Taylor that he depended on to do everything, and so even

    myself, he used to encourage me and he used to tell me that

    the job I was doing, I should exercise patience and bear

    with him."

    Let's consider what Isaac Mongor told this Court that I've just read. He said Foday Sankoh used to speak to the recruits. He told them that Sierra Leone had a one-party system. And then Foday Sankoh spoke of being a poor man. He said he did not have money. And then he said, but all that he was doing there, it was his brother Charles Taylor that was doing it.

    Madam Kallon, you say Pa Morlai would come to your house, Firestone, Harbel. You said your husband Daniel Kallon was respected and that he was close to Pa Morlai. You say yourself that you were close to Pa Morlai. Did Pa Morlai ever tell you that all he was doing at Camp Naama, the training of those fighters there, that it was Mr Taylor who was doing that for him?

  • No.

  • Did Pa Morlai, also known as Foday Sankoh, tell you something similar to what Isaac Mongor has said, that he depended on Mr Taylor to do everything? Did he say Mr Taylor was the one he depended on for everything?

  • I did not hear that.

  • In all the time that you saw Pa Morlai both at Camp Naama and when he would come to Harbel, did you see him together with the person you knew as Isaac Mingo?

  • At that time he was not even coming closer. He will stand from his house, from there you can see the Pa.

  • Who was not coming closer?

  • Who would stand from his house and see the Pa?

  • And who is the Pa you're referring to?

  • At that time it was Pa Morlai.

  • In your assessment did this person you know as Isaac Mingo have a close relationship with Pa Morlai?

  • Why do you say no?

  • At that time Isaac was just an ordinary bodyguard. He didn't go close to the Pa.

  • Thank you, Madam Kallon. Now, there is one transcript I want to visit very briefly. I just want to clarify something. This will not take long.

  • Mr Anyah, Isaac was a bodyguard of who or whom?

  • Madam Kallon, Isaac was a bodyguard of whom? You referred to him as a bodyguard.

  • To Kargbo. John Kargbo.

  • Was that when they were NPF - was that when Isaac was NPFL?

  • How about after he had gone to Camp Naama and returned, was he still bodyguard to Kargbo?

  • At that time when he came he was just there like a civilian. He didn't go anywhere. Except if I had some work to do, he would help me.

  • Thank you, Madam Kallon. Can we have the transcript of 27 October 2008. The relevant page is 19316. Madam Kallon, I just want to clarify something regarding what this witness said. The witness who testified was Ibrahim Fofana. The witness testified openly. The TF1 number is 216. And the witness made reference to a name here that I want to ask you about and I'll do this as quickly as I can. The witness said that he was born in Tonkolili District. The witness said in February of 1998 - I am now at line 14 on that page into line 17 - he says in February in 1998 the witness was in Kono in the particular village of Paema Town. And we go over to the next page, page 19318 - sorry, that's two pages over. The witness said in that February 1998 something happened in his village. He said a squad of soldiers - I am now between lines 11 and 21 - the witness said a squad of soldiers entered his village, they started harassing people, and they referenced an operation called Operation Pay Yourself. We go over to page 19320 between lines 17 and 20. The witness said another operation that these soldiers spoke about was called Operation No Living Thing. First they were speaking about Operation Pay Yourself, then the witness said another time came when they changed the expression and they called it Operation No Living Thing. Then we move over to the next page, page 19321. They asked the witness how long he stayed in Paema - this is at line 8 - after the soldiers came. And he responded, and then at line 13 he said when the soldiers went there, people started running away. They were going to Sandor and Sandor is towards Guinea. Sandor is another place on the way to Guinea. Then we go over to the next page, page 19327 - sorry, we should go to 19327. Skip a few pages. Line 9, the witness was asked whether he left his house when he crossed over into Guinea - sorry, the witness was asked:

    "Q. Did you leave anybody in your house when you crossed

    over to Guinea?

    A. Yes, somebody was in the house. That was my aunt.

    Mammy Isatu. She couldn't walk.

    Q. Mammy Isatu, you said she couldn't work or she couldn't

    - I heard 'walk'. What did you say? Was it walk or work?

    A. She couldn't walk for any far distance. She was an old

    woman."

    And then they spell the name Isatu, and then the witness said they left Guinea while the woman remained in - essentially, the witness says he walked and we crossed over to Sandor, we passed through Kumba Jende and we went. Let's stop there. This name that is mentioned is what I want to ask you about, Mammy Isatu. First of all, do you know somebody called Ibrahim Fofana who was born in Tonkolili District?

  • No.

  • Do you have a nephew or relative by the name Ibrahim Fofana?

  • No.

  • When you hear the reference in Mr Fofona's evidence to his aunt Mammy Isatu, who could not walk, that she was an old woman, do you know if he's talking about you?

  • No, I don't think he was talking about me. Because all the places you are mentioning, I don't know there.

  • Thank you, Madam Kallon. That answers it. I just wanted to make sure that was not you, and we are grateful for your response.

    Madam President, the next issues I wish to discuss involve either confidential exhibits or confidential transcripts. For the protection of Prosecution witnesses, I would like to make an application in respect of one set of information there, but I would like to do so outside the presence of the witness. But I make an application first for a closed session. I am asking Madam Kallon to bear with me while I make my arguments outside her presence, if your Honours allow it, and then with leave of your Honours, she can be brought back and we can ask her questions about these materials.