The transcripts of the trial of Charles Taylor, former President of Liberia. More…

  • [On former affirmation]

  • Mr Taylor, last Thursday when we adjourned we were looking at the evidence of a witness TF1-567. Do you recall that?

  • Yes, I do.

  • And we were looking at his account of having travelled with Foday Sankoh to the Executive Mansion in Gbarnga, where he claims that he collected a pick-up truck full of arms, yes?

  • And you will recall in particular you pointing out that it was the Prosecutor who had mentioned the word "truck" when the witness had himself used the word "pick-up". Yes?

  • The point where we had reached was page 12843 of the transcript of 2 July 2008. The witness spoke to this effect:

    "Q. And, if you know, what type of communication did he


    A. Well, at that time when he wanted to communicate to

    Sierra Leone he used to go to the Mansion Ground. The

    operator was there and he was called Butterfly. That was

    where he communicated.

    Q. Who was Butterfly?

    A. Butterfly was an operator for Charles Taylor."

    Now let's pause. Now, Mr Taylor, do you accept that you had a radio operator called Butterfly?

  • Yes, I do.

  • What was that individual's real name?

  • A name mentioned before. He was later to become the Liberian ambassador to Libya, wasn't he?

  • And he was a Special Forces as well, wasn't he?

  • Originally of Gambian descent?

  • And the witness's evidence continued in this way:

    "Q. What happened once you arrived back in Pendembu?

    A. When we got to Pendembu, Foday Sankoh gave these

    materials to the battle group commander.

    Q. Do you know how this material was going to be used?

    A. He said they should be distributed to the front lines.

    Q. Now, you said you made a second trip to Gbarnga. Can

    you tell us again what year that was that you made this

    second trip?

    A. It happened in 1992.

    Q. What happened on this second trip?

    A. During the second trip we used the same route through

    Koindu in Mendekoma. That was where we crossed and got to

    Gbarnga. When we got there, Foday Sankoh went to greet his

    brother Charles again. Later he told us that he had

    received a radio message at Cape Mount area. He said his

    brother Charles had told him that the soldiers, the RUF

    soldiers from Pujehun, had retreated and come to Bomi Hills

    and Bopolu."

    Pause there. Mr Taylor, you will see there that the witness is suggesting that you provided Foday Sankoh with information about the retreat of RUF soldiers from Pujehun. Do you understand that?

  • Yes, I do.

  • Let's just read the passage again so that we get the full sense of it:

    "During the second trip we used the same route through Koindu in Mendekoma. That was where we crossed and got to Gbarnga. When we got there, Foday Sankoh went to greet his brother Charles again. Later he told us that he had received a radio message at Cape Mount area. He said his brother Charles had told him that the soldiers, the RUF soldiers from Pujehun, had retreated and have come to Bomi Hills and Bopolu."

    Firstly, did you provide such information to Foday Sankoh?

  • No, I did not.

  • Secondly, were you aware of an RUF retreat from Pujehun to Bomi Hills and Bopolu?

  • On a more general level, Mr Taylor, that answer suggests that you had more detailed knowledge of the movements of RUF soldiers than Foday Sankoh himself. Was that the case?

  • That was not the case. That was not the case.

  • "Q. Now, you said that he had received a message. Who

    received this message?

    A. Well, he said a signal message has come from Cape Mount

    area to the mansion. He said his brother has told him, his

    brother Charles has told him.

    Q. You said this message came from Cape Mount. What do

    you mean by Cape Mount?

    A. Cape Mount County. This is an area where the NPFL was

    in control. That is the area, Cape Mount County.

    Q. You said the RUF soldiers had come to Bomi Hills and

    Bopolu. Did you know another name for Bomi Hills?

    A. Yes, Bomi Hills, they call there Tubmanburg.

    Q. So what happened after Foday Sankoh got this news?

    A. Well, later he told us his brother Charles had said

    that he will help him with food to take for the soldiers.

    At that time his brother provided food, rice and other

    items and so we went."

    Is that true, Mr Taylor?

  • No, that is not true. And maybe to put this in perspective: If he's talking about 1992 then he's got to be talking about anywhere between January and May. That's the only period he can be talking about. By this particular time in 1992 there is cooperation between the RUF and the NPFL on that border where our special operations people are fighting ULIMO. Now, as to the details of where the fighting, who is retreating, I would not have those details so I would not discuss this with Foday Sankoh. In fact, Foday Sankoh would have to get this information himself.

    On the issue of food and other supplies, these little boys do not know. Foday Sankoh came to Gbarnga. I've told this Court. I did give Foday Sankoh small amounts of arms and ammunition fighting on that border. I did not provide food and different - Foday Sankoh came to Gbarnga. He bought food, different non-military items and different things. For me security was important on that border because the Sierra Leonean government, okay, had armed and trained ULIMO and they were fighting us. And our determination was to fight them in Sierra Leone so we would not have to fight them in Liberia. I have not denied that, so he doesn't know what he is talking about.

    But his boss bought the food. If I had given Foday Sankoh food, I would say I did. I didn't give him food. He bought whatever he needed. Whatever little security assistance we could give while our men were fighting in there, we did give up until May of 1992, beginning around August of 1991. If he is talking out of that period he has generalised - in fact the way the questions are asked here by the Prosecutor is so generalised that - but I can just say if it's any time after May of 1992 it is totally incorrect.

  • Very well. Now, the witness went on, and this is at page 12853 of the transcript of 2 July 2008, to speak of a situation where Mosquito had killed one sole NPFL who they said had raped someone so he killed the soldier. This caused problems between himself and the NPFL soldiers. Do you have any knowledge of that, Mr Taylor?

  • No, I have no knowledge of this particular situation, no. Because in fact Mosquito, if he is referring to Mosquito as in Sam Bockarie, I didn't even know of a Sam Bockarie, neither did Foday Sankoh within that period bring - between August '91 and May '92 he never brought Sam Bockarie with him to Gbarnga and I don't think any of the witnesses before this Court have said so. I did not know any Bockarie and I didn't know of this incident. I really question if it actually happened.

  • The account goes on in this way. The witness goes on to say that he returned from Tubmanburg to Gbarnga and he is asked this:

    "Q. What happened after you arrived back in Gbarnga?

    A. After we had arrived Foday Sankoh went to his brother

    Charles Taylor.

    Q. And what happened after he went to his brother Charles


    A. Well, he told him that he and his brother had arranged

    that this was the time that they were to capture Kono

    because Kono was a diamond mining area and that they should

    try and capture there. Later Charles Taylor gave the arms

    and ammunition."

    Mr Taylor, did you have such a discussion with Foday Sankoh?

  • No. In fact, I don't know - I don't know if this so-called Kono was captured in 1992. I have no idea of what was going on inside Sierra Leone. But Foday Sankoh and I did not have any discussion as to the capture of Kono. Maybe when Kono was captured, I think it may be an important part, you know, whether it was captured pre '93 or after that particular time. I don't know anything about the capture of Kono, if Kono was captured during that particular time. Really we didn't have that discussion. But then this could be confused with the same discussion that we're hearing about about the capture of Kono somewhere in '98. I'm not sure if he is talking about the same period.

  • My understanding of the evidence this witness is giving is that he made two trips in '91 and '92?

  • I'm not sure if Kono - I don't know of any capture of Kono in that period in 1992 - before May of 1992. I'm not aware. Neither did we have that conversation.

  • The questioning continued in this way, page 12854:

    "Q. Mr Witness, you said that Foday Sankoh went to his

    brother Charles Taylor and, 'He told him that he and his

    brother had arranged that was the time that they were to

    capture Kono.' Now when you say that he told him that he

    and his brother had arranged, who told who?

    A. Well, he was trying to talk to us that he and his

    brother - he and Charles Taylor have arranged that Charles

    Taylor was to help with arms and ammunition to go and

    capture Kono because Kono had diamonds.

    Q. Just to be absolutely clear, when you say he and

    Charles Taylor, who is the he?

    A. Foday Sankoh.

    Q. These arms and ammunition that you received, could you

    tell us what types of arms and ammunition?

    A. The arms and ammunition were plenty. He gave up to 50

    boxes. 50 boxes of AK rounds. That is 100 sardine tins

    were contained in two boxes. That is 100. He gave rice,

    he gave RPG boxes, GPMG and others that I cannot recall."

    Mr Taylor, did you provide arms and ammunition in such quantities to Foday Sankoh in order to capture Kono?

  • Never did. But there may be three issues here appear to me to be confusing. Number one, if we recall a letter that was written by Foday Sankoh to me in 1992 complaining about a few boxes of AK ammunition, so I don't see how we can jump from a few boxes to 50. If I had 50 boxes of AK I would have captured Monrovia in 1992. So I'm not sure if he's talking about - you know these boys hear things around. I'm not sure if he's talking about this particular situation that he is explaining and confusing it with the later Kono. Remember we heard some testimony here about the so-called Fitti-Fatta in Kono and all that kind of stuff. I'm not sure if - you know, these boys just bring information.

    There is absolutely no - I don't have that quantity of ammunition back in 1992 that I will give Foday Sankoh 50 boxes. Impossible. There's no such thing. No. And probably, I'm just going through this transcript, maybe we ought to check in the records because if we look at testimony before this Court, in 1996, based on testimony given here, when Foday Sankoh returns from Abidjan from the peace talks he goes back. Remember the letters that he wrote to Mohamed Talibi. If we look at those and this rush to begin to mine, Foday Sankoh says, according to testimony before this Court, in that letter to Talibi - I'm not quoting it directly - that they were going to begin to work to get things going.

    So we may have to check and see if there was any attack on Kono or capture of Kono back in 1992. But I think there's just so much confusion here with this hearsay - what these boys hear one part and multiple. But to cut short, I never had that quantity of ammunition in 1992 and never gave Foday Sankoh that amount and that's why Foday Sankoh kept complaining and requesting from me ammunition that I really didn't have.

  • And it continues:

    "Q. And when you talk about sardine tins what are you

    talking about?

    A. Well, in the box - the box - in the box - the tins that

    were in - the tins in which the ammunition were we used to

    call them sardine tins.

    Q. And what happened after you received these materials?

    A. Well, after we had received these materials

    Foday Sankoh said that we were to go back to Sierra Leone.

    But at that time some other soldiers for whom he had left

    an instruction at Bomi Hills to meet him at Gbarnga were

    already on the ground. So he put Mosquito in charge of the

    group to go with the truck that contained the arms and

    ammunition, so we moved.

    Q. This truck that contained the arms and ammunition,

    whose truck was it?

    A. Well, the truck was a DAF truck. It had come from the

    mansion from Charles Taylor.

    Q. And what size truck was this?

    A. Well, it was a six-tyred truck.

    Q. And when you say it was a DAF truck, what do you mean

    by DAF?

    A. Well, the vehicle, that was the name of the vehicle in

    front of it. In front of vehicle it was written DAF, DAF.

    Q. Now you said that Foday Sankoh put Sam Bockarie in

    charge of the truck and we moved. What do you mean we


    A. We went to Sierra Leone.

    Q. At this time when you left Gbarnga where was Philip


    A. Well, the other group that were coming, Philip Palmer

    came to Gbarnga. He stayed in charge of the other

    materials and to control the other soldiers that were


    Pause there. Firstly, this witness is placing Mosquito, Sam Bockarie, in Gbarnga at this time in 1992, Mr Taylor. Did you meet Mosquito at this time in 1992?

  • Never met - never met Sam Bockarie at this particular time, and even based on their own testimony here I don't think any witness that this Prosecution produced ever said or could come back and say that Sam Bockarie was brought to Gbarnga between '91 and '92. Sam Bockarie - in fact, I met nobody. But the most senior people in the RUF based on evidence and information before this Court, at this time the most senior people are who? Mohamed Tarawalli and Rashid something. Sam Bockarie is really nothing. And in fact I don't even get to meet any of these people and no witness - none of these witnesses have been here to say this person came and I met this person. No, I never met Sam Bockarie in this period. And, quite frankly, not even meeting. I doubt very much if any witness have said that or if he ever put foot in Gbarnga at this time. I doubt it.

  • Now, the second aspect of this testimony that I want to ask you about is the truck. A six-tyred DAF truck. Firstly, were you in possession of such a vehicle?

  • In '91/'92 we had MAN trucks, not DAF trucks. MAN diesel, M-A-N. MAN.

  • MAN. Where are they from?

  • I think these MANs are - I think they are German made if I'm not mistaken. We had MAN trucks, not DAF trucks.

  • And a six-wheeler truck, Mr Taylor?

  • Yes, most of the trucks have either six - six or ten. They were six-wheeler trucks but they were MAN trucks, not DAFs.

  • Now, did you provide a six-wheeler truck - let's forget the brand name for the minute - full of arms to Foday Sankoh?

  • Never. Never did. The ammunition that went to Foday Sankoh went in small what we call pick-up trucks that these are little half-tonne pick-up trucks. No, never.

  • Now, at this time, Mr Taylor, in 1992, did you know a man called Philip Palmer?

  • No, I didn't know him.

  • Did Foday Sankoh leave someone in charge --

  • Just a moment, Mr Griffiths, please. I note that your previous question related to arms but the answer relates to ammunition. Are we just treating it all as the same?

  • During this period, your Honour, most of the things delivered were ammunition, not arms.

  • Now, the witness's testimony continued in this way:

    "A. Well, the other group that were coming, Philip Palmer

    came to Gbarnga. He stayed in charge of the other

    materials and to control the other soldiers that were


    Q. And who gave him this assignment?

    A. It was Foday Sankoh who gave him this assignment.

    Q. Now on this second trip to Gbarnga did you see Charles


    A. Yes, I saw him.

    Q. How did it happen that you saw Charles Taylor?

    A. It happened when we were returning to Sierra Leone. We

    passed through the Mansion Ground. As we were approaching

    Charles Taylor's mansion area in Gbarnga, we were

    approaching the motor pool and at that time Charles Taylor

    was outside and so Foday Sankoh told the driver to slow

    down. When he slowed down he told him to stop. When he

    stopped Foday Sankoh alighted and went and met his brother

    Charles. It was since - it was then that I knew him.

    Q. The residence that Foday Sankoh had in Gbarnga, what

    was the distance between that residence and Charles

    Taylor's mansion?

    A. It was not far at all. You would be there and looking

    at the mansion.

    Q. Can you give us any idea of the distance?

    A. If you're walking on foot you could spend about 15


    Pause. What about that time estimate, Mr Taylor, to walk from the Executive Mansion to, as you described it, the guesthouse in the - was it called the Far East?

  • Yes. I would say - I would put it to a little more than 15. I would put it to about 20 minutes. But I wouldn't fuss about that big difference. But then I would draw attention to the fact that if we took his 15 minutes - if we took his 15 minutes and compared it to another witness's statement here that this guesthouse where Foday Sankoh stayed was a street away, one would hardly take an entire 15 minutes to walk across the street, you know, to get to the Executive Mansion. So, I mean, you know, when you listen to these testimonies, you know, you have to be very careful how these boys speak. So the 15 minutes I would say is a little short but 20 minutes. But walking for 15 minutes would take you at least a few blocks.

    But then, there's another thing I want to draw the Court's attention to where - when you were reading a few lines before, he mentions that they're driving and they stop and he gets down and that is where he knows - he doesn't know me. How would you just see me and you know - he doesn't know me. Maybe he wanted to say he saw me, but that's the problem with how these boys speak. So he gets out of the vehicle and says that's when he knew me. How can you know me? You don't know me. You saw me. So when you ask them, "You know - oh, yes, I know Charles Taylor." Maybe you saw me at a distance and then you say, "I know him." I'm talking about a few lines forward.

  • I know exactly where you mean.

  • You see, so when these guys are talking, that's why we get mixed information. Of course, if you are a bodyguard to Foday Sankoh and you are on a jeep and the jeep stops and he says, "Stop here here," and he walks over to me and you are at a distance to see me, of course, anyone must say that that's got to be - if he is present, there's got to be some truth to it. But the fact that you know me and then he maybe talk about things happening in my living room.

    So, I mean, this is - so I'm not going to fuss with 15 minutes. I think it could be about 20, but then it contrasts very sharply with what another witness said that Foday Sankoh lived just, you know - I mean, a street away from me, which is not true.

  • Now, let's go on and deal with another aspects of this witness's evidence. Page 12864 of the transcript of 2 July 2008. And just to put the particular passage that I want to deal with in context, we will deal with some earlier events:

    "Q. How long did you stay in Koidu Town after Foday Sankoh


    A. I was there for some time and later. When the enemies

    advanced, we all moved from there and went to Gandorhun.

    Q. Now, during the time were you in Koidu, after Foday

    Sankoh left, did you receive any communications from

    Foday Sankoh?

    A. Whilst we were in Gandorhun, at one time Mosquito said

    that Foday Sankoh had sent a message to him that he had

    received an urgent message from his brother Charles that he

    was supposed to go and meet him in Gbarnga.

    Q. You said this is while you were in Gandorhun. How long

    were you in Gandorhun?

    A. We spent some time in Gandorhun.

    Q. Now, what year are you talking about?

    A. Here I'm talking about 1992.

    Q. And do you have any recollection as to what part of

    1992 this was when you were in Gandorhun?

    A. This happened at the time we were approaching the end

    of 1992."

    Have you got the date?

  • And he continues:

    "Q. While you were in Gandorhun, did you receive any other

    communications from Foday Sankoh?

    A. Yes. Whilst we were there, another message came.

    Foday Sankoh sent a message to Mosquito that he had arrived

    in Gbarnga and he said his brother Charles had given him

    arms and ammunition. But he said that ULIMO had blocked

    the road between Voinjama and Kolahun, but he said his

    brother told him not to be worried, that he was going to

    give him manpower to come and clear the way. And that he

    was going to come and meet us back. So that was the

    message that he sent."

    Pause there, Mr Taylor. First of all, note the date, end of 1992. Note also what the witness is saying. "Foday Sankoh gets to Gbarnga, but having got to Gbarnga, ULIMO blocked the road between Voinjama and Kolahun." So you were promising him manpower to clear the route. Is this true or false, Mr Taylor?

  • Totally false. And if we go back through countless amounts of hours of evidence before this Court, even Prosecution witnesses have said here very clearly that by May of 1992 all contacts with the RUF had ceased. Where would Foday Sankoh pass by the end of 1992 to be in Gbarnga? Except he flew, there's no way that Foday Sankoh would be in Gbarnga after May of 1992. And so if he is saying that at the end of 1992, Foday Sankoh is supposed to be in Gbarnga, maybe he is talking about another Foday Sankoh.

    And because they are so wrapped up in this lie, Sam Bockarie is featuring here very, very prominently, and he probably - all of us, I don't know what the cross-examination went like. I've forgotten, but, I mean, at this particular time you are talking about other senior people in the RUF that even I haven't met which involve Tarawalli and other people that are Special Forces. So a little Mosquito would not really be counted as being important. So this is totally untrue. It's a lie. There's no way that there is Foday Sankoh or any other person - even the guesthouse is not operational by the end of 1992. It is totally, totally false. He has got it all mixed up.

  • What about this business of ULIMO blocking the road?

  • But ULIMO, by June, July, and I would say - I will put it to about August of 1992, ULIMO is already - has blocked not - is in control of Lofa. Is in control of Lofa County by this particular time, totally. They are around the St Paul bridge. There is no way that - NPFL is not in that area. Only ULIMO now has the full Lofa and all the way down through Bomi. The map that was marked here by a Prosecution witness, I'm talking about Mr Sherif. If you look at that area, by this time ULIMO is occupying that. There's no way, at the end of 1992, there is any NPFL in that area that would encourage any movement from the RUF after May of 1992. There is no link. There's no connection. Their witnesses have also confirmed this.

  • So, Mr Taylor, if you're telling us that by June, July of 1992 ULIMO had control of Lofa County, can you help us as to how Foday Sankoh managed to bypass them to get to Gbarnga?

  • I really don't know. That's why I'm saying it's impossible. It just didn't happen. It just did not happen, and witnesses will say that.

  • Do you recall an instance where you told Foday Sankoh that you would give him manpower in order to clear a route back to Sierra Leone?

  • No. No. No. Why would I give him manpower? I have withdrawn my men. I have withdrawn my men under this so-called - after this so-called Top Final. I've withdrawn my people. There's no relationship. What is Foday Sankoh going to be doing at the end of the year in there? No. No. It just never happened.

  • And by the end of 1992, Mr Taylor, what was your focus as leader of the NPFL?

  • By the end of 1992, we are involved in several peace negotiations around this time, around the end of 1992 going into 1993. We have by the middle - by this time the NPRAG is in full swing. We are really concentrating mostly on our various peace processes with ULIMO. In fact, they haven't - I'm not sure if they have split at this time, but it's between ULIMO and the various warring factions.

  • Sorry. What was that acronym? NPR something.

  • Oh, we've gone through that here, your Honour. NPRAG. That's the National Patriotic Reconstruction Assembly Government. We have it on the records, your Honour.

  • Now, another aspect of this witness's evidence, Mr Taylor. Page 12866 of the transcript of 2 July 2008:

    "Q. If you remember, how long did the RUF hold Koidu?

    A. That was just around the end of '92 that we were pushed

    out of there.

    Q. And do you remember for what period of time the RUF

    controlled Koidu?

    A. I can't recall that again.

    Q. Now, what happened once you arrived in Kailahun Town?

    A. When we arrived in Kailahun, Foday Sankoh called a

    meeting. At this meeting there was Ajami, who was the MP

    commander, and Mosquito was there and other people were

    there. And during this meeting, he said that he went and

    met his brother Charles and in this meeting, too, he said,

    the diamonds that Mosquito handed over to him, he said he

    gave him some for him to keep - to keep them for him.

  • Who is the 'he', Ms Hollis?

    Q. So who gave some diamonds to whom?

    A. Foday Sankoh gave the diamonds to Charles. That was

    what Foday Sankoh told us during the meeting.

    Q. And did Foday Sankoh explain to Charles Taylor why he

    was giving him the diamonds?

    A. He said he gave him for him to give a little more arms

    and ammunition for him to bring them back."

    We'll continue with that in a moment, but note again, this is the end of 1992, Mr Taylor.

  • This is after this witness claims they made a second trip to Gbarnga when you provided arms and ammunition for the capture of Kono. Do you understand that?

  • And that following the capture of Koidu Town, the context is that you were being given diamonds by Foday Sankoh in return for arms. This is at the end of 1992, Mr Taylor. True or false?

  • Totally false. Totally false. And I think Prosecution own witnesses have sufficiently verified that before this Court, that there were no link, no link between the RUF and the NPFL after May of 1992. So all this thing about there's supposed to be people coming in and going after me in 1992 is totally false. Totally false.

  • "Q. When Foday Sankoh was in Kailahun, to your knowledge,

    did he bring anything back with him from Gbarnga?"

    Remember, this is the end of '92.

  • "A. Yes, he brought a good amount of ammunition with rice,

    salt. He brought them.

    Q. And do you recall the types of ammunition that he

    brought back?

    A. He brought RPGs, RPG boxes, AK rounds, GPMG and some

    others that I cannot recall now.

    Q. And what did he do with this ammunition that he brought

    back from Gbarnga?

    A. He gave them to the G4 and they kept them in the

    warehouse, and he was Joseph Brown. And later they were

    distributed to the front lines.

    Q. And if you know, at the time of this meeting in

    Kailahun Town with Foday Sankoh, how many people were in

    the RUF?

    A. There were more than 10,000 people.

    Q. Now, you've told the Court about ULIMO cutting the road

    for a period of time in Liberia. First of all, who is


    A. According to what we heard, ULIMO were fighting under

    Alhaji Kromah. Alhaji Kromah was the leader for the

    leader of ULIMO at that time.

    Q. Did ULIMO ever block the route in Liberia again after


    A. Yes, that later happened in 1993. ULIMO blocked the

    road. They captured Kolahun, Foya, Voinjama. ULIMO

    captured all of these areas.

    Q. When they captured these areas in 1993 what access, if

    any, did the RUF have to Charles Taylor?

    A. Well, after ULIMO had captured all of those areas

    Foday Sankoh called to Gbarnga and told his brother Charles

    and Charles Taylor suggested to him that he should send

    some soldiers from Sierra Leone to go to him so that he

    will be able to give him some arms and ammunition. So

    Foday Sankoh selected some Liberian soldiers who were with

    him, including Morris Kallon, for them to go.

    Q. And did Morris Kallon and these others go to Charles


    A. Well, they went, but later we understood that they did

    not arrive there at all.

    Q. And how did you come to understand that they did not

    arrive there?

    A. When they went after a week Foday Sankoh communicated

    with Gbarnga but they told him that they have not been able

    to see them. That was how I came to know.

    Q. To your recollection for what period of time did ULIMO

    cut off access between the RUF and Charles Taylor?

    A. It was in 1993.

    Q. Until when?

    A. Until 1998."

    Now there's much there that we need to deal with, Mr Taylor. Let's start from the end and work backwards. When do you say ULIMO cut off the border between Sierra Leone and Liberia?

  • I'll say the border was totally cut off by August of 1992. It was totally cut off.

  • What do you say to the suggestion that it wasn't until 1993 that that occurred?

  • Well, then this will contrast sharply with what all the other witnesses have said that all contacts were cut off with the RUF.

  • What about the time frame that this witness gives for ULIMO blocking the border: 1993 to 1998. What do you say to that?

  • That's totally inaccurate also, because if we talk about actual blocking of the border, ULIMO blocks off the border up until the - I would say - I would put it to about January of 1997. That is following the disarmament programme when all of the factions demobilised and become political parties. So if we're looking at blockage, I would say ULIMO blockage ends in I would say January of 1997.

  • So do I take it then, Mr Taylor, that you neither accept the start date or the end date given by this witness?

  • Now, the other matter that I want to deal with in that passage that I read out is this: Do you recall a mission being sent by Foday Sankoh to Gbarnga led by one Morris Kallon?

  • Do you know Morris Kallon?

  • Well, I've heard the name here. I don't - I don't know Morris Kallon. Morris Kallon was in several meetings, but I don't quite remember the feature, but I have met him in a meeting.

  • Where?

  • Well, during the peace negotiations of the large delegations that came I understand on one of the occasions there was a Morris Kallon in the delegation. But when these delegations come there are so many you remember the leader of the delegation but you don't - I don't remember the faces, but I remember the name.

  • When do you recall possibly meeting him?

  • Oh, this has to be somewhere, if I'm not mistaken, in '99. I would say beginning, early to middle 1999. During the many negotiations that name came up, Morris Kallon.

  • Now, another aspect of the testimony that this witness gave in that passage I've just read out was that it was at your suggestion, Mr Taylor, that Foday Sankoh sent this mission led by Morris Kallon but they never arrived in Gbarnga. Do you recall making such a suggestion to Foday Sankoh?

  • There is no contact I have with Foday Sankoh so it's impossible to suggest anything like this, what he's talking about in 1993 to Foday Sankoh. I have no contact whatsoever.

  • Let's be careful, Mr Taylor. He's talking about the end of 1992?

  • I thought he said here in - are we sure here? Because aren't we talking about the period he says that the cut off occurred in 1993?

  • Yes, you're right. He is speaking of 1993.

  • So the contact with Foday Sankoh - oh, boy. You know, that's the problem with these cases. I, Charles Taylor, as of May of 1992, had no contact with Foday Sankoh. I've told this Court the period that I had contact with Foday Sankoh. These little boys with their fabrications and lies. There is no contact, there's no communication with Foday Sankoh. The next time after 1992 May that I meet Foday Sankoh is that I meet him in Lome. None whatsoever. None whatsoever. This is a lie.

  • Mr Taylor the witness continues in this vein:

    "Q. To your recollection for what period of time did ULIMO

    cut off the access between the RUF and Charles Taylor?

    A. It was in 1993.

    Q. Until when?

    A. Until 1998 again.

    Q. Now when the access was once again opened between the

    RUF and Charles Taylor, where were you?

    A. At that time I was in Kailahun District. I was based

    in a town called Balahun.

    Q. During this time that the access across the border was

    cut off was there any contact between the RUF and Charles


    A. I did not get that clearly.

    Q. During the time that the border was cut off between the

    RUF and Charles Taylor was there any contact between the

    RUF and Charles Taylor?

    A. Since the time ULIMO captured the road we did not have

    road contact. We only had contact through communication.

    Q. What type of communication?

    A. Radio communication.

    Q. Were you present for any of these communications

    between the RUF and Charles Taylor?

    A. Yes. When the communication was taking place they did

    not talk directly to Charles Taylor. Sometimes

    Foday Sankoh would communicate with the operator that was

    with Charles Taylor that was called Butterfly. It was

    through him that the communication went on."

    Is that true, Mr Taylor?

  • That is not true. There is no way that Butterfly, as Special Forces, would have been in contact with Foday Sankoh. There is absolutely no way that would happen. And to be - what would happen in these communication periods would be this: That code Butterfly would refer to the radio operator that will be responsible for receiving and communicating for the mansion, because there were several other radio posts. But everybody knew the angle and the bad blood that had developed because of this fighting between the RUF and the NPFL. There's no way Butterfly ever got in touch with Foday Sankoh to receive or transmit any messages from me.

    Now, having said that, I don't - I have no way of verifying as to whether of the many radio stations, one like some of the Liberians that stayed over there would call other stations and there's one thing I'm sure the Court will consider. Within that period people had developed relationships. Now, I don't doubt whether one little RUF radio operator will call somebody in another part of Liberia. But as far as the official contact, me or any senior general in the NPFL having contact receiving or transmitting information, that would just not - in fact it did not happen. There was just too much bad blood. No.

  • But the witness continues in this vein:

    "Q. And were you yourself present for any of these


    A. Yes. These communications that you were present for,

    what was the communication about?

    A. At that time he" - that being Foday Sankoh - "was

    trying to tell his brother Charles the prevailing

    conditions in the RUF controlled zones.

    Q. And if you know, what was Charles Taylor's response to

    this communication?

    A. Well, at that time Charles Taylor was not talking

    directly to Foday Sankoh. He would tell his operator the

    message and the operator in return would send a message to

    Foday Sankoh."

    Then there was an exchange which needn't bother us, but then the examination continued in this way, page 12870:

    "Q. Now let's clear up what we were talking about. You

    said you were present when Foday Sankoh would send messages

    to Charles Taylor. Were you ever present when Charles

    Taylor sent messages back to Foday Sankoh?

    A. Yes. When Foday Sankoh was giving the message to the

    operators who in turn sent them, he explained the

    prevailing conditions in the RUF and that we were now

    suffering and we were not getting support from him and at

    that time whilst we were advancing the areas that we got -

    that we got to, those were the messages that he sent and he

    said, okay, things happen that way because that is a

    guerilla warfare.

    Q. Who said things happened that way because that is

    guerilla warfare?

    A. That was the message that came from Charles Taylor."

    Do you have any recollection of such a conversation, Mr Taylor?

  • None whatsoever. It just didn't happen.

  • Now, Mr Taylor, you appreciate that what the witness is saying is that these communications were going on during that period when, according to the witness, '93 to '98, the border is being blocked by ULIMO?

  • During that period, Mr Taylor, did you maintain radio contact with Foday Sankoh?

  • Now help us, Mr Taylor. Bearing in mind that the witness says that the road was blocked and, to quote, "They were unable to get" - they were not getting any support from you, help us: How would radio communications help Mr Sankoh? Can you help us?

  • Well, no, I can't because radio communication would not help. But, you know, the funny thing about this is that why would I sit before this Court and accept the fact that between August '91 and May '92 that there were contacts with Foday Sankoh and he came to Gbarnga, and that I did give Foday Sankoh, for security reasons at that time, because the Government of Sierra Leone was supporting ULIMO, I did assist in making sure that the borders were protected. But I will sit before this Court and say that, after the border is closed, "Hey, I'm not in radio communication." There is nothing - would a radio call have what I would say more strength than having admitted to the security cooperation? What would a radio call amount to as compared to me saying that, in fact, yes, between '91 - August and '92 May, that I did even give him some ammunition for security reasons. It just did not happen.

    If it had happened, I would sit here and tell these judges that, "Yes, even though the roads were closed, but I talked to him." It didn't happen. I was upset with Foday Sankoh because he sat there and permitted this fight to occur and some of our good people died. So I wouldn't mislead this Court. I would tell them that I gave ammunition between that time, but I will come later and say, "Oh, but I didn't call on the radio." Nonsense.

    I mean, these boys don't know what they are talking, and they are just wrapped up in these lies that - I don't know how they put them together, and they try to hold - I did not speak or communicate or receive communication from Foday Sankoh any more following that break-up in 1992. I never did. If I had done it, I would say I did. I never talked to Foday Sankoh again. The next time I see Foday Sankoh is when I meet him in Lome in '99. No contact. Foday Sankoh, because of this bad blood, Foday Sankoh goes away from Sierra Leone in 1996. He goes to a peace discussion. No contact. There's not one witness that has come before this Court and say, "While Foday Sankoh was in Abidjan, he called Charles Taylor on the telephone," or he sent some - nothing. Nothing. Nothing. It is a lie, counsel. It is a lie. There is no such thing.

  • Mr Taylor, what is this bad blood you keep referring to, please?

  • Oh, okay. I mean, the bad blood had developed from the clashes that occurred between the RUF. I'm using it, please, your Honour, as a figure of speech that there was a lot of anger after the Top 20, Top 40 and Top Final clashes that caused our people to get killed. I held Foday Sankoh responsible. I felt that he could have stopped it, and I'm just using it figuratively.

  • Now, moving on with the testimony of this witness. The witness went on to say this:

    "A. When I was in Tongo, I used to mine on my own. So

    whenever I got diamonds, I would come to Kenema to sell or

    sometimes I would come to visit Sam Bockarie. That was

    what I was doing.

    Q. And when you visited Sam Bockarie, were there other

    people with Sam Bockarie?

    A. Yes. I can remember at one time when I went to visit

    him, I met someone with him who they called Jungle. That

    is Daniel Tamba. I knew him since 1992. So I asked him

    what had happened, and so he told me that the Pa had sent

    him. That is Charles Taylor. He said that he had sent him

    to Mosquito and had told him not to be involved that much

    in the AFRC government. So when he said that, Mosquito

    looked at him in a way. So from then on, he did not speak

    any more.

    Q. You said you knew this Jungle, Daniel Tamba, since

    1992. How did you meet him in 1992?

    A. Well, it happened during the time when Foday Sankoh and

    I were going to Gbarnga. I knew him."

    Now, Mr Taylor, do you know a Jungle, Daniel Tamba?

  • No, I don't. I know the name, but I don't know - I don't know him.

  • Where do you know the name from?

  • From this Court about Daniel Tamba and Jungle.

  • Had you sent a Daniel Tamba, also known as Jungle, to carry a message to Mosquito?

  • Well, the years that we're talking about here, am I correct, and I stand corrected, are we talking about, did we say '94 to '96? Is that the time? If we go back on that page, I think the --

  • Remember, the witness said that, "He said that he had sent him to Mosquito and had told him not to be involved that much in the AFRC government." Now, when did the AFRC come to power, Mr Taylor?

  • To the best of my recollection, the AFRC comes to power in 1997. May 1997.

  • Now, remember, this is the witness who says the border was closed from 1993 to 1998. So help us, Mr Taylor, how are you able to send Jungle, Daniel Tamba, to take that message to Mosquito?

  • I don't. I don't. So - I mean, I just don't. I don't know the - I don't know a Jungle, but maybe just as a reminder to the Court, and I'm sure the records read, we've had testimony before this Court about Jungle. But maybe, counsel, that 1994, '96, those two years mentioned in the earlier clipping, I'm not sure what the relevance is to the 1997 situation, but, you know, it may be something that as we look at another witness that came before this Court that explained the Jungle situation, I think it may clear up a lot of things for the Court.

  • Now, let's just assume for argument's sake that this witness is correct about this, Mr Taylor. Help us, what would be your motive in advising Mosquito not to get involved with the AFRC government? Do you follow me?

  • Yes, I follow you. But, I mean, I couldn't even do that because, again, counsel, the evidence before this Court is that Mosquito's boss, Foday Sankoh, has already instructed him in May to join the AFRC. So he's - so the RUF is already a part of the AFRC, based on Foday Sankoh's instruction, and that was played apparently on - it was recorded and played on Sierra Leonean radio.

    So, in fact, you know, it would mean nothing to me, but this - the way how these things go, he is totally misleading everybody with the way he presents this. He doesn't know what he is talking about, and so he has presented this information in here. There is no - I gain nothing from - I'm not an adviser to the RUF. Why in 1997, at the time he is talking about, when I'm doing my campaigning and Foday Sankoh, who has entered Ivory Coast since 1996, has had no contact, has given his orders that I would then send somebody called Jungle - and don't let's forget now, by this time in 1997, we have, what? Even though we have demobilisation and we have disarmament, but the beginning of 1997, at this time, ULIMO is still posted in Lofa even though ECOMOG is deploying. And where does Jungle come from? I mean, who would Jungle be to me, okay, at this time that I'm not President, I'm not elected as President of Liberia yet, what would - the whole thing is a fabrication. That's what it is.

  • Now, who is Jungle? Well, the witness continues in this vein:

    "Q. Well, you said you knew this Jungle, Daniel Tamba,

    since 1992. How did you meet him in 1992?

    A. Well, it happened during the time when Foday Sankoh and

    I were going to Gbarnga. I knew him. He was at Charles

    Taylor's Mansion Ground. He, that being Jungle, was in a

    group called SBU. That was the time I knew him. That was

    the time I knew him."

    So the witness is saying Daniel Tamba is an SBU, Mr Taylor, and that you sent that individual to Mosquito. What do you say about that?

  • That's a lie. Total nonsense. And I remind this Court again, the explanation of this Daniel Tamba calling him Jungle was explained here I think at best by a Prosecution witness. Daniel Tamba, Jungle, was the commander in - the deputy commander in Lofa. No SBU, nothing, in Lofa at the time ULIMO cut off the NPFL, and he and NPFL soldiers fled into Sierra Leone. Being a Kissi, he became very close to Sam Bockarie in 1992. That's Prosecution evidence before this Court. I've forgotten the number, but it's one of the last protected witnesses that testified before this Court. Okay. Jungle was a full grown man commanding in Lofa that got cut off by ULIMO in 1992, and that's the fact that their witnesses have put before this Court.

  • Well, the witness continues to speak about this man Jungle, Mr Taylor. Page 12898 of the transcript of 2 July:

    "Q. You've said that the SLA burnt down Koidu Town. Now,

    when you say SLA, who do you mean?

    A. Those were the SLAs that were part of the AFRC

    government. Those were the ones I was trying to refer to.

    Q. Can you tell us when was your next trip to Buedu?

    A. The other trip I made to Buedu, other soldiers were

    passing by who gave me information that Jungle had come to

    Buedu, and so I went there. When I went to Buedu, I saw

    Jungle. What Jungle told me was that Charles Taylor sent

    him to Mosquito and that Charles Taylor had known that the

    juntas had retreated from Freetown. So that was the reason

    why he sent him to come and call Mosquito for him to go and

    meet him in Monrovia. That is what he told me."

    Now, Mr Taylor, let's look at that carefully, shall we? Juntas had retreated from Freetown. What year is that then?

  • The juntas retreated from Freetown. I would associate that with the intervention, and that would be February of 1998.

  • Now, what the witness is therefore saying is that at that time you sent Jungle to call Mosquito to go to Monrovia to meet you, 1998.

  • You know, this is such a big lie, I don't know how to put it. I do not at all meet Sam Bockarie. For the first time, I met Sam Bockarie in September of 1998. Not before then at any time. Not before then.

  • But, Mr Taylor, help us. This witness is saying that it was Jungle who took your message to Mosquito to come to Monrovia. Now, has any other Prosecution witness said that you sent them to call Mosquito?

  • None. Well, they - yes. Yes. One of them - there was one Prosecution witness, Mr Sherif said I sent him to go and bring Mosquito to Monrovia.

  • Right. So that's why I'm asking, Mr Taylor. Who did you send? Was it Jungle or was it Sherif or was it somebody else?

  • Neither. None of them. None of them. At this period, it's none.

  • Well, are you sure about that?

  • I'm very sure. When I do - when I do get to warn - to talk to Mosquito in September of 1998 after - after the trip of Eddie Kanneh to my ambassador in Conakry and arrangements are made for Mosquito to come to Liberia in September of 1998, I don't send Jungle. I don't send anybody else. I sent someone different to go and meet Mosquito at the border.

  • And who was that?

  • I sent General Menkarzon to go and get him.

  • "Q. What happened after had you this conversation with


    A. Later I returned to Balahun.

    Q. Now, while you were in Buedu at this time, did you

    attend any meetings in Buedu?

    A. Yes. Whilst I was there I attended a meeting in which

    Sam Bockarie, Issa Sesay and other people were present.

    During this meeting Sam Bockarie did say that the Papay,

    that is Charles Taylor, sent Jungle to meet him and he said

    he had known that we have retreated to this area and he

    said he should go and see him. So he, Mosquito, left Issa

    as the commander for him to be able to go. After that, I

    returned to Balahun.

    Q. Did you learn whether Sam Bockarie actually went to see

    Charles Taylor?

    A. Yes. Later I got information that Mosquito and Jungle

    have gone to see Charles Taylor."

    True or false, Mr Taylor?

  • Totally false. Totally false.

  • The witness continues at page 12900:

    "Q. And when you say that he shouldn't have taken the

    action regarding the diamonds, what are you talking about?

    A. That he shouldn't have undertaken such an operation in

    his absence. He, Mosquito, was supposed to be around

    before he could take those diamonds. And the other things

    he did was he took Johnny Paul Koroma's wife from him for

    some time and so Mosquito was not happy with that.

    Q. And what diamonds are you talking about that were


    A. Well, after Mosquito had said that Issa Sesay said that

    he got information that Johnny Paul Koroma and the other

    people like Gullit and Rambo were trying to escape to go to

    Liberia with the diamonds. So he said that was the reason

    why he took the diamonds from them.

    Q. Now, on this occasion whilst you were in Buedu did you

    attend any meeting?

    A. Yes. There was a meeting that was convened by Issa

    Sesay and that included SYB Rogers, Mike Lamin, Rashid

    Sandy together with some other people that I cannot recall.

    And during that meeting he did say he went to see - he

    said Charles Taylor called him for him to go and meet with

    him. But he said before he could arrive there, he said

    Benjamin Yeaten, who was 50, 50 was the person he met and

    he was the one who took him to Charles Taylor. He said

    when he got to Charles Taylor, Charles Taylor did say that

    he was his brother revolutionary. He said Foday Sankoh was

    his revolutionary brother and so he said he was happy for

    the action taken by Sam Bockarie in the absence of

    Foday Sankoh, that he was in control of the RUF up to that

    moment and so he said he was happy."

    Was that how the meeting with Sam Bockarie went, Mr Taylor?

  • Depending on the time that he is talking about, there's no meeting with Sam Bockarie in the period he is talking about here.

  • But he is speaking of a meeting where Benjamin Yeaten brings Sam Bockarie to you. Do you recall that?

  • Well, no. You know, the period in question here, he's talking about a different period. He's talking about the beginning of 1998 and that's the problem. So there is no such meeting, so, I mean, I refute all of this matter.

    Now, of course as Sam Bockarie comes to Liberia subsequent of September of 1998, the contact individual there on the ground when he comes in responsible for security of him and again some other Sierra Leoneans is Benjamin Yeaten. So I'm not sure which period he is talking about here, because he has got the time mixed up when Sam Bockarie actually comes to Monrovia. So I can't accept the proposition that he is giving here except he is talking about after September of 1998 and I don't think this is what he's talking about.

  • Well, he continues in this vein:

    "Q. Now, when you said that at this meeting he said he

    went to see Charles Taylor, who said he went to see Charles


    A. It was Mosquito who was addressing the meeting. He

    said he, Mosquito, went to Monrovia to see Charles Taylor.

    Q. And then you said he said that when he got to Charles

    Taylor, Charles Taylor did say that he was his

    revolutionary brother. Now who is the they who got to

    Charles Taylor?

    A. Mosquito went to Charles Taylor. He said it was

    Charles Taylor who told him that Foday Sankoh was his

    revolutionary brother.

    Q. Now, you have mentioned the person SYB Rogers. Who is


    A. SYB Rogers, he was one senior person that Foday Sankoh

    respected. He was a civilian and he was a War Council


    Q. At this meeting what, if anything, did Issa do with the


    A. Issa Sesay gave those diamonds - the diamonds they were

    nine - they were nine plastic diamonds that he took from

    Johnny Paul. There were nine plastics and he gave to

    Mosquito, Sam Bockarie.

    Q. So when you say nine plastic diamonds, what are you

    telling us?

    A. The diamonds were in the plastic. Up to nine plastics.

    Q. Now you said that Issa Sesay gave Sam Bockarie the

    diamonds he had taken from Johnny Paul Koroma and I think

    you mentioned two other people. Who were these other


    A. Those other people were also soldiers under Johnny Paul

    Koroma. They were called Gullit and Rambo. He was a

    security to Johnny Paul Koroma.

    Q. Who is a security to Johnny Paul Koroma?

    A. It was Rambo.

    Q. Do you know him by any other name?

    A. No.

    Q. After Issa Sesay gave these diamonds to Sam Bockarie,

    what did Sam Bockarie do?

    A. Sam Bockarie said that he was going to take those

    diamonds to Charles Taylor for safekeeping until the return

    of Foday Sankoh from prison."

    Any truth in that, Mr Taylor?

  • There is no truth to this.

  • Were you given diamonds for safekeeping by Sam Bockarie?

  • "Q. Now what did you do after this meeting?

    A. I went back to Balahun.

    Q. And when did you next go to Buedu?

    A. I was there for some time. And later I went back to

    Buedu, but this time round I met Jungle again and I met

    Mosquito who had returned with Jungle, his bodyguard Foday,

    JR, together with some other Liberian securities like

    Zigzag Marzah and JR and others."

    Who is JR, Mr Taylor?

  • "Q. Now you said that you met Foday there. Who was his

    security - whose security was Foday?

    A. Foday was a security to Mosquito."

    Do you know this Foday, Mr Taylor?

  • No, I don't.

  • "Q. Do you know Foday's last name?

    A. I can't remember that.

    Q. And you mentioned a person you called JR. Who was


    A. That is Junior Vandi. He was one of the Black Guards.

    Q. And you mentioned Zigzag Marzah. Who was that?

    A. Well he, Sam Bockarie introduced the Liberian brothers,

    that is Zigzag Marzah and others, and he said these are the

    Liberian brothers sent by Charles Taylor.

    Q. What happened after Sam Bockarie introduced these

    people as his Liberian brothers sent by Charles Taylor?

    A. So I heard Mosquito say that they should unload the

    vehicle in which they brought the ammunition and Mosquito

    said they should unload the ammunitions and I saw that it

    was Zigzag Marzah who was driving the vehicle and later

    Mosquito advised them to return that particular night for

    security reasons."

    You see the clear implication of that, don't you, Mr Taylor?

  • Yes, I do.

  • You sent Zigzag Marzah along with Jungle and others with arms and ammunition to Mosquito. Did you?

  • Never did. Never, never did send any arms or ammunition to Mosquito via Zigzag Marzah or Jungle. Never did.

  • And then it continues:

    "Q. You said that you heard Mosquito say that they should

    unload the vehicle in which they had brought the

    ammunition. Who is the they you are referring to?

    A. Mosquito said that the vehicle brought by Jungle and

    others should be unloaded.

    Q. And who unloaded the vehicle, if you know?

    A. Soldiers who were under Sam Bockarie.

    Q. Do you recall the types of ammunition that were in the


    A. I saw RPG boxes and AK rounds.

    Q. And you also said that Mosquito advised them to return

    that particular night for security reasons. Who was he

    telling to return that night for security reasons?

    A. He was trying to tell Jungle and Zigzag Marzah that

    they should go back. He said he did not want them to be

    there until daybreak so that that would prevent other

    civilians from knowing about the mission they were running.

    Q. What happened then after Mosquito told these people to

    go back that night for security reasons?

    A. After that I returned to Balahun. I was there.

    Q. These Liberians that were there, Zigzag and others, do

    you recall what they were wearing?

    A. Well, I saw them in overall, blue/black, and it was

    written by the side of the pocket 'SOD police'.

    Q. Did you learn what that meant, SOD?

    A. Well, later I understood that SOD was a police branch

    that was serving directly under Charles Taylor and they

    were called Special Operations Division.

    Q. And how did you learn this?

    A. It was Jungle who told me."

    Are you aware of a unit called SOD, Mr Taylor?

  • No, I'm not aware.

  • Was there such a unit in Liberia after you became President?

  • Special Operations Division?

  • No, not to my knowledge, no. Because the unit serving at the mansion was the SSS, not the SOD. No.

  • And what about these overalls blue/black, who wore such a uniform?

  • Blue/black uniform was used by the Liberian National Police.

  • What about the SSS?

  • No, the SSS wore a very sky blue shirt and a dark blue pants. Top very sky - I mean, sky blue almost as the screen of this set here. Very sky. Two different colours that were distinguishable. You could tell the difference.

  • So who wore blue/black?

  • The police - the national police wore blue/black but not overalls. They wore a blue/black similar to what the securities around here use.

  • Which securities are we talking about?

  • We're talking about the Court securities. About the same colour of the uniforms.

  • Like the gentleman sitting behind me?

  • And that was the uniform of the Liberian police?

  • The witness continues, page 12906:

    "Q. The time that you were in Buedu and you saw Zigzag

    Marzah and the other Liberians in those SOD uniforms, can

    you tell us when that was?

    A. Yes, that happened at the time that Issa Sesay had

    handed over the diamonds to Mosquito when he went to

    Monrovia and when he returned. It was that time that I saw

    Zigzag Marzah and the others.

    Q. Do you have any recollection of what month this


    A. I cannot recall the month.

    Q. Before you returned back to Balahun, did you attend

    any meetings in Buedu?

    A. I can't recall that.

    Q. After this time, did you ever see these Liberians in

    Buedu again?

    A. Yes. I used to see them there again.

    Q. And how often did you see them there?

    A. Well, at that time I was no longer based in Buedu. I

    was in Balahun. I will go there and return. Sampson,

    Jungle and others used to come, and the time they used to

    come, according to what they told me, they used to come

    with a truck that contained arms and ammunition, food and

    other things that were in there. They said they will

    normally stop the truck at Voinjama and then they will use

    small vans to transport the arms and ammunition, together

    with the other items, to Buedu, or sometimes if the road

    condition was better, the truck will come as far as Buedu.

    Q. Did they tell you who they received these arms and

    ammunition from?

    A. Well, Jungle and others were saying that it was the

    Papa, Charles Taylor, who used to give the arms and


    Mr Taylor, were you supplying arms and ammunition, using the route as described by this witness, to Mosquito when he was head of the RUF?

  • Never did. Not a day. Never did. No. Now, whether Jungle and them went into Sierra Leone - we were talking about 1998 and here is a man in a different area. Late 1998, 1999, there is no way that I am in position to dispute that arms or ammunition went into Sierra Leone during this particular time. There is sufficient information before this Court to verify how they got there, whether the purchasing of material in Lofa at the time. But I, Charles Taylor, as President of Liberia at that time, in the first instance, did not have arms and ammunition to even give - even if there was a desire to do it, I didn't have it. Okay? I did not have arms and ammunition at this particular time.

    If we look at this time in 1998, I'm busy negotiating with the international community on what to do with the arms and ammunition that have been seized from the disarmament programme. I don't have arms and ammunition at this time and don't send them.

    Now, whether these people are doing their little purchasing in Lofa, as most of the witnesses have said, I am not in a position to dispute that. But I - my government and myself - did not have weapons and did not send any weapons to anybody called Sam Bockarie in that period, no.

  • The witness continues:

    "Q. Did you ever see the trucks that were used to bring

    the arms and ammunition to Buedu?

    A. At one time I saw a military truck come to Buedu.

    Q. And how big was this truck?

    A. It was - it was a ten-tyred truck. It had two in

    front, two in the middle and then - two in front, four in

    the middle and then two at the back.

    Q. While you were based in Balahun, to your knowledge,

    how many times did Sam Bockarie go to Liberia?

    A. I understood that he came there three times.

    Q. And who did he go with to Liberia these three times?

    A. He went with Jungle, and the other time, according to

    he, Mosquito, because I was not there, what he told me was

    that Varmuyan Sherif at a point in time came to him. So

    the two of them went. That is what he told me.

    Q. Did he tell you what Varmuyan Sherif was?

    A. Well, he told me that Varmuyan Sherif was sent by the

    Papa to come and see him so that the two of them will go.

    Q. Did you ever meet Varmuyan Sherif?

    A. No, I did not meet him in Buedu. It was Mosquito who

    told me that.

    Q. Did you ever meet him in any other location?

    A. Yes, I met him in Monrovia."

    Now, do you understand - first of all, Mr Taylor, did you ever send a ten-tyred military truck loaded with arms to Buedu?

  • Never did. And I don't think he is serious about what he is saying. Even the description of the truck, two tyres in the front, what he said, six in the middle and two at the back, I haven't ever - I don't even know if that kind of truck exists. Two tyres in the front, six in the middle and two at the back?

  • Two in the front, four in the middle and then two at the back.

  • I haven't seen any truck configured like that where - no. But, in fact, the shortcut is, I never sent a so-called ten-tyre truck. I mean, I have seen ten-tyre trucks. I know what a ten-tyre truck looks like, but it's never looked that way before.

  • Mr Taylor, what if the witness got the description of the truck wrong. Did you send any type of truck down there?

  • No, that's what I'm saying, I did not send a ten-tyre truck to Sierra Leone. Any kind of truck.

  • Forget about ten tyres. Did you send any truck down there?

  • No, Your Honour, I did not sent any truck to Sierra Leone with arms and ammunition, no.

  • Now, this witness suggests that Mosquito went to Liberia on three occasions. Do you agree or disagree with that?

  • How many times do you say he went to Liberia?

  • Oh, I would put Mosquito going to Liberia at least a half dozen times in all, yes, about a half dozen times.

  • And then he goes on, that Mosquito had gone with Jungle and he had also gone with Varmuyan Sherif. True or false, Mr Taylor?

  • That's false. How would he - how would he travel to Liberia with Varmuyan Sherif? In fact, if we look at the records, we know that Mosquito does know Varmuyan Sherif from the time that they were dealing with ULIMO. We know that. We also know that when the contact is made in August of 1998 for Mosquito to come to Liberia, Varmuyan Sherif is mentioned as the contact in Monrovia. So I don't see how then - you know, the time here is very important. Because I don't see how he could come to Monrovia subsequent to that time with Varmuyan because Varmuyan Sherif is in Monrovia. So I do not think this account is accurate at all. It is not.

  • Mr Taylor, do you know of a mission called Fitti-Fatta?

  • Well, no, I don't - I've heard of it here. No, I don't. I've heard of it in this Court.

  • It was a mission to re-attack Koidu Town. Do you have anything to do with that?

  • Let's move on then and deal with another aspect of the witness's account. Page 12912 of the transcript of 2 July 2008:

    "Q. What happened after you went to Superman Ground?

    A. When I had been at Superman's Ground, later

    Sam Bockarie called Issa to go to Buedu. So I joined Issa

    Sesay, and the two of us went to Buedu. He said we should

    try to recapture Koidu Town. So he was trying to go to

    Monrovia to meet the Pa, that is, Charles Taylor, and that

    Issa Sesay was to stay in charge when he went. So we

    waited there until Mosquito went to Monrovia.

    Q. Can you tell us when this was that Mosquito went to


    A. This happened in October."

    What do you say about that, Mr Taylor?

  • There is a trip that Mosquito makes to Monrovia in October of 1998.

  • "Q. Can you tell us what year this is?

    A. It happened in 1998.

    Q. You said that you went to Buedu with Issa Sesay. How

    long were you in Buedu?

    A. We spent up to two months.

    Q. And what happened then?

    A. Later Mosquito came with a lot of ammunition.

    Q. And what happened after he came with a lot of


    A. After he had come with these ammunition, he said that

    the Pa, that is, Charles Taylor, had told him that we

    should try and capture Kono. He said we should try and

    capture Kono and other mining areas so that we will be able

    to get diamonds and hence get more arms and ammunition. So

    he handed over these materials to Issa Sesay. Since then

    we moved to Koidu Town - sorry, to Superman's Ground.

    Q. You said he came with a lot of ammunition. What kinds

    of ammunition did he come with?

    A. RGP bombs, AK rounds, GPMG rounds. He came with

    camouflage. He came with guns and others that I cannot


    Now, did you provide that kind of supply, Mr Taylor, for the capture of - to try and capture Kono?

  • Never did. Never did. When Issa - when Sam Bockarie came to Liberia in October of 1998, that was his second trip. That trip that he came for, it was the discussion again of trying to pursue this peace deal that had been done earlier in 1996. That was the second trip that Sam Bockarie came. At this particular time, again - I guess where this whole thing gets mixed up, and as they were constructing this theory of what they thought, one of the things that slipped, and I think, just through the grace of God, is the fact that this is built on the belief that Taylor was weapons, and it so happened that God knows we had no weapons in this period. And because we had no weapons, we could not give anybody any weapons. We had no weapons.

    Now, whether Sam Bockarie came through Lofa, as they had been buying and maybe picked up a few things, and when you get back, you just hear - say, "Oh, is he back? Yes. Did he bring anything? Yes." Because he went to Charles Taylor, what he is coming back with probably came from Charles Taylor. I never gave Sam Bockarie any weapons during that period or no other period. I did not have weapons for myself. The Government of Liberia did not have weapons. So they missed it and they tried to construct this whole lie on the fact that we are supposed to be awash in arms. I do not have, neither do I give to Sam Bockarie.

  • The witness continues:

    "Q. What happened when you arrived back in Superman


    A. When we got to Superman's Ground, Issa Sesay called a

    meeting. At this meeting he called, Morris Kallon was at

    this meeting, Akin Turay was at this meeting, Banya was at

    this meeting, Gassama Mansaray was at this meeting and

    other people whose names I cannot recall now. During this

    meeting, he, Issa Sesay, said that master had come, that is

    Mosquito. He said so he had gone and met with the Pa, that

    is Charles Taylor. He said he had given a lot of arms and

    ammunition for us to capture Koidu Town and for us to

    capture the other areas, those areas that were mining

    areas. He said that Charles Taylor had said that - he said

    Mosquito said Charles Taylor had said that if we did not

    capture these mining areas, he will not supply us arms and

    ammunition any more."

    Shaking your head really doesn't help us, Mr Taylor. What are you saying to that?

  • It's a lie. It is totally false, totally, totally, totally false. Totally false.

  • "A. He said so we should try very hard to capture these

    areas. So at this meeting he organised a command as to how

    they were to carry out the mission. He appointed Rambo,

    that is Boston Flomo, that he should be the head for the

    mission, and Morris Kallon, he was to go - he was to go and

    mount an ambush in the Gold Town area?"

    Now, moving forward to page 12915 of the transcript of 2 July 2008:

    "Q. Mr Witness, you said that you went to Buedu, you and

    Issa Sesay, in about October and that Sam Bockarie left and

    was gone for about two months and he came back with a lot

    of ammunition. Can you tell us when it was that he came

    back to Buedu?

    A. It was in December 1998 that he returned."

    Now, do you recall Sam Bockarie spending that length of time in Liberia, Mr Taylor?

  • No. The month mentioned here in December of 1998, Sam Bockarie did spend some time out of Sierra Leone. Late November, going into December, Sam Bockarie did travel through Liberia.

  • To go where?

  • To go to meet with the chairman of the OAU at the time, Blaise Compaore, and that took - that whole time, passing through Liberia and coming back, took close to two weeks that he was out of Sierra Leone and Liberia, too.

  • What about this time period given by the witness of two months, what do you say about that?

  • No, no, no. Two months? No. No. About two weeks. Maybe he misspoke there. About two weeks.

  • Page 12917 of the transcript, last line:

    "Q. Now, let me ask you, before you left Koidu Town, going

    towards Makeni, are you aware of any communications that

    occurred after the capture of Koidu Town?

    A. Yes. Communication took place at Buedu and another

    communication took place in Monrovia where the operator who

    was in Monrovia who was with Benjamin Yeaten called

    Sunlight - communication took place there when the operator

    was trying to tell the other operator how he had captured

    Koidu, how he had captured arms and ammunition, and how we

    had captured all the Nigerian soldiers. That communication

    took place.

    Q. And tell us again, who was Sunlight?

    A. Sunlight was a radio operator who was with Benjamin


    Q. How do you know about these communications?

    A. I was in the radio room when the communication was

    going on."

    Now, Mr Taylor, taking things in stages, did Benjamin Yeaten have a radio operator called Sunlight?

  • I don't know. He very well could have. I don't know, counsel. I don't know.

  • Are you aware of communications, radio communications between the RUF and Benjamin Yeaten through his radio operator at or about the time that Koidu and some Nigerian soldiers were captured?

  • No. But to be factual about it, I would not dispute that - well, the first thing is that Benjamin Yeaten, I mean, he as director would have a radio operator. I don't know his code. The second thing factually is that I would not dispute the fact that the operator of Benjamin - because of Benjamin coordinating the security, it would not be out of reason for his operator to call Sam Bockarie, okay? So I don't - but I don't know the name of the operator. So I wouldn't have the details, and so I don't have a quarrel with the fact that maybe there's communication. I don't.

  • Well, help us with this, Mr Taylor: The witness speaks of the capture of Nigerian soldiers. Do you recall an incident when some Nigerian soldiers were captured in Sierra Leone by the RUF?

  • No. There was no specific incident like that I recall, no.

  • I ask because you were involved at some stage in the release of some UN hostages, weren't you?

  • Yes. But they were mostly - to the best of my recollection, I don't recall Nigerians. I know there were Kenyans, there were some Indians and other nationalities. I think Malians. I don't recall Nigerians.

    But, counsel, if I may just draw your attention to - because the Prosecution did not correct it. This issue of the two months of Sam Bockarie being out of Liberia, I mean - out of Sierra Leone and the time that the witness is suggesting is around December, if I'm right about that.

  • Uh-huh.

  • Well, if Sam Bockarie spends two months out of Sierra Leone in December, then he is not in Sierra Leone during the January 6 invasion of 1999. So I suggested that --

  • I think that's a misstatement of the evidence that's before this Court that the Defence counsel has referred to. The witness indicated that Sam Bockarie left in, as he recalled it, October and returned in December. Not that he left in December for two months.

  • Yes, Mr Griffiths, did you want to reply to that?

  • Page 12915 of the transcript:

    "Q. Mr Witness, you said that you went to Buedu, you and

    Issa Sesay, in about October, and that Sam Bockarie left

    and was gone for about two months and he came back with a

    lot of ammunition. Can you tell us when it was that he

    came back to Buedu?

    A. It was in December 1998 that he returned."

    So what the witness is suggesting is that Bockarie was out of Sierra Leone from October to December 1998. Do you know anything about that, Mr Taylor?

  • That is incorrect, no. That is totally incorrect. That is incorrect.

  • Why do you say that?

  • Because Bockarie came to Liberia in October. He returned to Sierra Leone. He came back in November and he went to Burkina Faso and he was out for two weeks. So he was not in Liberia for two months or even two weeks, the two weeks he spent outside of both Sierra Leone and Liberia.

  • Moving on, page 12969, testimony of 4 July 2008:

    "Q. Now, in addition to this meeting and this briefing

    that was given to Foday Sankoh, were there any other

    briefings or reports given to him while were you in Lome?

    A. Yes. I also added - I told him about the operations -

    about how the operations had been going on. I spoke and we

    had been Black Guards to him and we went too, myself,

    Junior Vandi and Morie Jibao. So we also sat down and we

    gave our own situation report about all that had been

    obtaining. So we all sat together and prepared a document

    which we handed over to him.

    Q. And after you handed the document over to him, what

    happened then?

    A. Well, after that we were now at Lome when at one point

    in time I saw Jungle come there, that is Daniel Tamba.

    That was when we went - we went there anew. And when we

    went, we were taking dinner. So I saw him and Foday Sankoh

    sitting aside discussing. So what he said was - he said

    the Pa, Charles Taylor, sent him to come to see you, to

    come and see conditions with you. So he was saying that.

    It was just that that I overheard. We were there for two

    weeks, but during the two weeks, Jungle went there two

    times. So after the two weeks, Foday Sankoh said we should

    go back to Sierra Leone to Mosquito so that we inform them

    about how the discussion was going on. So we went back."

    You see what's being suggested there, Mr Taylor?

  • You sent Jungle to Lome to assess the situation. True or false?

  • Totally false. Totally false. This Court, I have told, I sent the former foreign minister of the Republic of Liberia who was stationed on the ground in Lome. I had a delegation in Lome. I had a delegation from April until July. D Musuleng-Cooper sat there.

    Who is Jungle? I had a full delegation there dealing with the peace talks all along. All along. I had officials down there. So what would a Jungle may be doing in Lome that was sent to see conditions when I have an official delegation down there from April? I have an official delegation in Lome. All the way I'm kept briefed on everything that is going on by my delegation and by President Eyadema, okay? And in July, when things got very bad, around 5 July, Eyadema sent an aircraft for me. That's a lie. I didn't send no Jungle. I had an official delegation down there of which there was nobody called Jungle that was a part of it. I had a delegation there.

  • And then he continues, page 12970:

    "Q. Now, Mr Witness, you mentioned that you saw Jungle in

    Lome and you saw him speaking with Foday Sankoh. How many

    times did you see Jungle in Lome?

    A. I saw Jungle two times in Lome.

    Q. Now, you have explained what happened on one occasion

    when you saw him. Can you tell us what happened on the

    second occasion that you saw him?

    A. Well, the next time he came, we all went and ate at the

    same place but where we were eating, we were a little bit

    far off from him, so he was sitting very close to

    Foday Sankoh, discussing with him, but I did not actually

    overhear what they discussed at that time. But they went

    there, actually, but I did not hear what they discussed at

    that particular time.

    Q. In addition to Jungle, did you see anyone else in Lome

    who was not a part of your delegation?

    A. Yes.

    Q. Who did you see?

    A. General Ibrahim was there. Ibrahim Bah."

    Pause there. Do you remember us looking at United Nations documentation regarding Omrie Golley and Ibrahim Bah going to Lome, Mr Taylor?

  • In what capacity were they going to Lome?

  • In fact, that's two of the most senior members of the delegation. These were the first two.

  • Of which delegation?

  • Of the RUF delegation that was arranged by the UN.

  • But, Mr Taylor, this man is saying that he was not a part of the delegation.

  • But, counsel, that's the whole point about some of these boys; they don't know. And when you ask them questions, they come up with stories just to be heard. They don't know. And they're asking - they really don't know. So I'm not even sure if this man - I don't know whether I can attach the word "lie" to this. He really doesn't know. He doesn't know, okay? And this boy knows very well that this very Jungle that they keep talking about that has been, it's where they know that Jungle is a part of that RUF - I mean, group, as at the time they flee this Gissi boy, and they were aware that there's evidence led before this Court that in 1996, when Foday Sankoh is in Abidjan, Jungle is - visits him there, okay? And they have already testified here, there had been no contact while he is in Abidjan. He really doesn't know, counsel. So I cannot even say that he lied. He just doesn't know and he is making things up and I guess it amounts to a lie, really, but this is a high degree of ignorance.

  • "... who was not a part of your delegation?

    A. Yes.

    Q. Who did you see?

    A. General Ibrahim was there. Ibrahim Bah.

    Q. Who is General Ibrahim Bah?

    A. General Ibrahim Bah, Foday Sankoh told me that he was

    his friend and General Ibrahim Bah was with the NPFL."

    True or false, Mr Taylor.

  • Well, if we use the word - if we use the NPFL as we know it at that - way back in - and I'll give the specific years. If we're going back to as far, as I would say, '93, I would say NPFL because Bah left around late '93, '94 with his boss. So --

  • Kukoi Samba Sanyang. So if this is the - if we focus in on that period, I would say Bah was a part of the NPFL.

  • "... but he was from Burkina." Was he?

  • "... and according to Foday Sankoh, he was the person - he

    was the person that was living outside helping the

    establishment of the RUF movement, and Golley too was


  • You said Gullit was there?

    A. Golley. Golley.

    Q. Who is Golley?

    A. Omrie Golley. Omrie Golley was the spokesman for the

    RUF. He was there also.

  • And when you saw Ibrahim Bah there, what is he doing?

    A. Ibrahim Bah - at any time Jungle went to Monrovia to

    see Charles Taylor, the two of them went together.

    Q. And when you say Ibrahim Bah in Lome, what was he


  • Ibrahim Bah was there and at any time there was

    supposed to be any movement to go out, Pa Sankoh used to

    send him on such missions and at any time Jungle came to

    see Pa Sankoh in Lome, Pa Sankoh will send him to go with

    him to go and see Charles Taylor." Is that true, Mr Taylor?

  • Was Jungle and Ibrahim Bah visiting you together in Monrovia?

  • And whilst in Lome did you meet with Ibrahim Bah?

  • You were one of how many Presidents in Lome, Mr Taylor?

  • One of four - five. I would say totally five.

  • And we've looked at pictures of you in a hotel room with the others, have we not?

  • And you've told us in the course of your testimony that on occasions those meetings would go on well into the night?

  • That is correct.

  • Were you also at the time, Mr Taylor, meeting with Ibrahim Bah?

  • Who is Ibrahim Bah? No, not at all. Not at all. In fact, in those meetings that we had to meet Sankoh, Bah did not show up with Sankoh, no.

  • I think we're almost at the end of the tape, Mr Griffiths. We'll take a break now and resume at 12 o'clock.

  • [Break taken at 11.30 p.m.]

  • [Upon resuming at 12.00 p.m.]

  • Yes, please continue, Mr Griffiths.

  • May it please your Honours:

  • Mr Taylor, we were looking at what this witness said about Ibrahim Bah before the break, and let's continue with that, shall we:

    "Q. So in addition to these missions to see

    Charles Taylor, do you know what other missions Sankoh sent

    Ibrahim Bah to do?

    A. No. But he used to tell us that he was sending him to

    his brother Charles.

    Q. How long did you yourself remain in Lome?

    A. I was there for two weeks.

    Q. Why did you leave?

    A. Sankoh - Foday Sankoh told us that we should go back to

    Mosquito and others to explain to them how the discussions

    were going on, so we went.

    Q. And you said 'we went'. Who is it who went?

    A. I went with other people like Dr Williams who was our

    head when we were going.

    Q. Can you tell us who is Dr Williams?

    A. Dr Williams was a medical personnel in the RUF, so we

    used to call him Dr Williams.

    Q. When you left Lome, where did you go?

    A. We went back to Monrovia. They took us back to the

    same guesthouse that they had taken us before when we got

    there. So when we got to Monrovia, I later saw Benjamin

    Yeaten come to the place and he told us he was Benjamin

    Yeaten and he said his dad, Charles Taylor, knows that we

    have arrived. So he came, brought a parcel and he gave it

    to the commander who was with us, that is Dr Williams, but

    I did not actually know what was in the parcel. But

    Dr Williams later gave me 200 US dollars and he said, 'The

    Pa said we should buy some items' because we were going to

    go back inside. So we later bought these items that we

    needed, and the following day Benjamin Yeaten came again.

    He said that he will not be able to go and escort us, but

    his friend Joe Tuah will go and escort us. So he took us

    back to the same airport, Spriggs field, and we loaded into

    to the UN helicopter and it took us to Vahun."

    Pause there. Now, Mr Taylor, we're talking about transport of RUF representatives to Lome and back, yes?

  • Did they return to Sierra Leone via Monrovia?

  • And the route as described by this individual, Spriggs Payne airfield, we know where that is, UN helicopter to Vahun, is that correct?

  • Counsel, that could very well be correct. If any one of them that were in Lome - he claims he was in Lome - came back to Monrovia, this means that they were still under UN auspices. And the fact that they would use the UN helicopter from Monrovia to go back through Vahun at their level, we're talking about - if he says he stayed in Lome for two weeks, they started going into Lome in April of 1999, so assuming when he got in Lome, that could be around the end of April, early May, I wouldn't fuss with this. I don't know the intricate details, but it's possible that a few of them could have come back. And if they came back, I do not think he would be lying if he says that it would not be unusual for me to send a small envelope, if I learned that some of the delegates were coming back to Monrovia, it would not be unusual. I would do it. So even though I don't --

  • A small envelope containing what?

  • Money. I would send a few hundred dollars, say, "While you're here, buy your sneakers." I would do that. So I don't recall the specific details of that, but I'm saying it's not unusual. So I do not deny this. I don't recall, but this is something that I would normally do, give a little envelope, "Buy things on your way." And the UN is transporting them. So I can't fight with this one, no. I think something like this could have happened. I want to agree with him.

  • And the use of the guesthouse, Mr Taylor? Again, do you quarrel with that?

  • No, I do not. I do not.

  • Very well. Moving on, yes:

    "... and we loaded into the UN helicopter and it took us to


    Q. Now, if I can stop you there a moment. You said that

    when you were in the guesthouse, the Pa said we should buy

    some items because we were going to go back inside. Now,

    first of all, who do you mean when you refer to the Pa?

    A. Well, it was Benjamin Yeaten who came to us and said

    the Pa said he knows that you have arrived, so he gave the

    parcel. He said, 'Pa Taylor gave this parcel for me to

    bring.' So he said, 'You should buy some items to take

    back to Sierra Leone.'

    Q. And you said that Benjamin Yeaten came to the

    guesthouse and said he could not escort you, but his friend

    Joe Tuah will go and escort us. Now, who was Joe Tuah?

    A. Joe Tuah was one of the Special Forces."

    Was he?

  • Yes, Joe Tuah was a Special Force, yes.

  • "They were all trained in Libya and that was what I later

    understood. I also later understood that he was a minister

    without portfolio in Charles Taylor's government."

    Was he?

  • He was not a minister without portfolio in my government, no.

  • Joe Tuah was serving as an assistant director in the SSS.

  • "Q. What do you understand it to mean, a minister without


    A. Well, what I understood was he was in the government,

    but he did not have a specific position.

    Q. Did you learn his nationality?

    A. He was a Liberian."

    Was he a Liberian, Mr Taylor?

  • "Q. What happened when you arrive at Vahun?

    A. When we arrived at Vahun, at that time Mosquito had

    sent vehicles to pick us up. So the vehicles picked us up

    and we went and met him in Buedu.

    Q. Do you know how it was that Sam Bockarie knew to send

    vehicles to Vahun to pick you up?

    A. Well, before we left, there was somebody called

    Memunatu Deen. She was also an RUF operator, so she went

    to Benjamin Yeaten's house to communicate, to send a


    Does the name Memunatu Deen mean anything to you, Mr Taylor?

  • Yes, I've heard the name, yes.

  • When did you first hear the name?

  • Quite frankly, I first heard that name here, but I did know that there was a lady that was operating the RUF radio in Monrovia at the time. I really did not know her name. I associated that name when I got here.

  • So let me make sure I understand. You were aware of a female radio operator, is that right?

  • Did you have a name for that person at the time?

  • When did you first learn of the name?

  • I associated that name here in this courtroom.

  • And help us with this, Mr Taylor: The witness's account is that this individual, this female, Memunatu Deen, an RUF operator, went to Benjamin Yeaten's house to communicate. Was there a radio at the RUF guesthouse?

  • Can you understand why it would be necessary to use the radio at Benjamin Yeaten's house?

  • Really, I don't know. I don't know why she would do that, but, I mean, there was one there at the RUF guesthouse that she could have used. But there was a radio at Benjamin Yeaten's house now, so I don't know what to say about this.

  • All right. Moving on. The witness, in speaking of communications, Mr Taylor, said at page 12977 of the transcript:

    "Q. To your knowledge, in addition to these radio

    communications, did Foday Sankoh have any other

    communications capability?

    A. Yes, Foday Sankoh had a telephone. He had a telephone.

    Sometimes he communicated to Monrovia. Sometimes he will

    say he had spoken to his brother Charles."

    Were you aware of Foday Sankoh having such a telephone?

  • No, I was not aware of Foday Sankoh having such a telephone.

  • Did you communicate with Mr Sankoh by such means?

  • Never talked to Foday Sankoh on the telephone, no, never.

  • How did you communicate with him, for example, in that period following the Lome agreement, when attempts were being made to get him to come to Monrovia to meet with Johnny Paul Koroma? How did you communicate with him?

  • Well, I called him. I called him. But the period in question here, that's what some of these questions - I did call him. After Lome, he had a phone with him.

  • So in what period, can you help us, did you communicate with Sankoh by telephone?

  • From about July - I communicated with him in July of 1999, August of 1999. He finally - I would guess the beginning of September he finally comes to Liberia. Those are the three months of 1999.

  • Thereafter did you communicate with him by phone?

  • Yes. He goes to Sierra Leone, I do communicate with him when the UN host ages from - when the hostage situation first comes up in 2000, I do communicate with him by phone.

  • Now, the witness went on:

    "Q. Now, you indicated that you remained in Monrovia until

    Foday Sankoh came to Monrovia. During that time that you

    were all in Monrovia, do you know what Sam Bockarie did?

    A. Sam Bockarie was in Monrovia to wait for Foday Sankoh.

    When he was there, Foday Sankoh told Sam Bockarie to send a

    message to Johnny Paul Koroma so that the two of them can

    meet in Monrovia before ever going to Freetown. So Sam

    Bockarie sent the message to Johnny Paul Koroma, who in

    turn came and met us in Monrovia in the same guesthouse.

    When Johnny Paul Koroma came later, he too sent for some of

    his soldiers who were in Freetown. When they came they

    were lodged at a hotel called Hotel Boulevard, but it had

    been changed to Hotel Royal."

    Now, Mr Taylor, what do you know about that?

  • Your Honours, this - the facts of this matter are so far from what this witness is talking about. Johnny Paul Koroma does not come to Monrovia as a result of some communication from Sam Bockarie or Foday Sankoh or whoever. Johnny Paul Koroma comes to Liberia as a result of negotiations conducted by me to release the hostages that had been taken by the West Side Boys at Okra Hills.

    Johnny Paul Koroma is incarcerated by the RUF. The West Side Boys at Okra Hills seize some hostages and demand that Johnny Paul Koroma be released. Johnny Paul Koroma's release is negotiated by me, and he is brought to Monrovia. It does not happen as this witness is describing. It doesn't. That's how Johnny Paul Koroma gets to Monrovia.

  • Well, Mr Taylor, let's put it in context, because perhaps I should have started reading at a slightly earlier stage:

    "Q. Now, you testified that you were taken from Foya to

    Monrovia, you and Sam Bockarie and others in a helicopter,

    and you told us the name of the group that had the

    helicopter. Would you tell us that name again?

    A. It was a blue and white helicopter. It was a

    Weasua Airlines.

    Q. Now, you indicated that you remained in Monrovia until

    Foday Sankoh came to Monrovia. During that time that you

    were all in Monrovia, do you know what Sam Bockarie did?

    A. Sam Bockarie was in Monrovia to wait for Foday Sankoh.

    When he was there, Foday Sankoh told Sam Bockarie to send a

    message to Johnny Paul Koroma."

    Now help us, Mr Taylor. Firstly, was Sam Bockarie in Monrovia when Foday Sankoh arrived in Monrovia after the Lome peace talks?

  • Yes, yes.

  • Sam Bockarie was in Monrovia then?

  • To meet Foday Sankoh?

  • Now help us with this: Who came to Monrovia first, Foday Sankoh or Johnny Paul Koroma?

  • Johnny Paul Koroma came to Monrovia first.

  • But according to this witness, let's remind ourselves:

    "When he was there, Foday Sankoh told Sam Bockarie to send a message to Johnny Paul Koroma. So Sam Bockarie sent the message to Johnny Paul Koroma, who in turn came and met us in Monrovia."

    So according to the witness, Sankoh is in Monrovia before Johnny Paul Koroma and it's Sankoh who sends a message via Sam Bockarie to get Johnny Paul Koroma to come?

  • That's totally false. That's totally false. But there is records before this Court already from - if you look at the discussions in September, you look at UN documents. When Johnny Paul Koroma arrives in Monrovia, all of that is before this Court. Johnny Paul Koroma arrives in Monrovia in August. He is there waiting. Foday Sankoh doesn't get there until September before all the meetings occur, and they leave together in October. Johnny Paul Koroma arrives in Monrovia first in August of 1999. Foday Sankoh does not get there until September 1999.

  • Mr Taylor, just to make this clear. What you've just said, does that come from your conclusions of evidence given by other people in this Court?

  • Or does that come from your knowledge?

  • It's my knowledge and documentary evidence that I have testified to before this Court personally since I've sat in this chair. That's what I'm talking about. UN documents. When Johnny Paul Koroma arrives in Monrovia it is reported that he arrives in Monrovia. He holds a press conference. It is all - we've presented that in documentary evidence here.

  • Now, the witness goes on:

    "So Sam Bockarie sent the message to Johnny Paul Koroma, who in turn came and met us in Monrovia in the same guesthouse."

    Now help us, Mr Taylor. You told us that Johnny Paul Koroma comes to Monrovia because of the Okra Hills incident, yes?

  • How was contact made with him in order to get him to come to Monrovia?

  • We made the contact. The Liberian government made the contact.

  • And where was Sam Bockarie at the time of the contact?

  • He was in Sierra Leone when communication was made with Sam Bockarie to have Johnny Paul Koroma released. For the information, who are the West Side Boys holding? They're holding UN personnel, they're holding officials also of the RUF, and the West Side Boys had said we contact Sam Bockarie directly. Sam Bockarie insists that Johnny Paul Koroma is not being held, but he is being held, okay? He's under house arrest. I negotiate for his release, and he comes to Liberia. But at that time Sam Bockarie is still in his area there in Sierra Leone.

  • Now, it goes on:

    "So Sam Bockarie sent the message to Johnny Paul Koroma, who in turn came and met us in Monrovia in the same guesthouse."

    Did Johnny Paul Koroma stay in the RUF guesthouse?

  • Johnny Paul Koroma was so annoyed. He stayed at Hotel Africa. That's where I put Johnny Paul Koroma. We gave him all respect. Johnny Paul Koroma would not have even gone close to - he didn't want to see or talk to anybody calling itself RUF because --

  • Why?

  • Why? What had they done to him?

  • They had incarcerated him. He said he was being held under house arrest. His wife had been abused. He didn't want to talk - in fact, that was the reason of me holding those several days of peace negotiations between he and Foday Sankoh to bring them together. This was one angry man. He didn't want to hear. He felt that these people had disrespected him, they had incarcerated him, they had ill treated him, and he didn't want to hear anything about the RUF. This was the mood that Johnny Paul Koroma was in.

  • So a simple question: Did stay in the same guesthouse?

  • "When Johnny Paul Koroma came later, he too sent for some of his soldiers who were in Freetown."

    True or false?

  • That is true. That is true. We arranged for the West Side Boys, yeah.

  • Well, Johnny Paul Koroma when he got in Monrovia said he didn't know the details of what happened and why the West Side Boys, his boys, had acted. He wanted to see them. I, along with Tejan Kabbah and the United Nations, arranged for the West Side Boys to fly out of Lungi Airport on an aircraft provided by the United Nations assistance to Monrovia to meet with Johnny Paul Koroma, yes.

  • And were they lodged in a hotel called Hotel Boulevard?

  • Yes, they were lodged at Boulevard Hotel, yes.

  • "When Johnny Paul Koroma came, I saw Joe Tuah go to the guesthouse. I saw him give a parcel to Joe Tuah. Joe Tuah gave a parcel to Johnny Paul Koroma. Johnny Paul Koroma told us that it was Charles Taylor that had sent the parcel to him. He said the parcel contained $15,000 US to take care of him and his family."

    Now, taking it in stages: You've already dealt with the fact that Johnny Paul Koroma was not at the guesthouse, yes?

  • That is correct.

  • But independently of that, Mr Taylor, did you provide Johnny Paul Koroma with $15,000 US?

  • I provided Johnny Paul - I don't recall, but it could have been somewhere close to $10,000. Between $5,000 to $10,000.

  • In fact, when Johnny Paul Koroma met me in my office - and this boy's got it wrong. In my office when the West Side Boys arrived, Johnny Paul Koroma brought the group. There were several of them. I don't even remember them, okay? At the end of the discussion, as was usual, I gave an envelope. These boys were looking very much - they were not - they were - in fact, like people coming from the bush, really. I gave Johnny Paul an envelope. I said, "Well get your boys something to wear. Let them buy some things as they prepare to return." But this occurred in my office at the Executive Mansion. Now, I can tell that this man - in fact, your Honours, to remind you, there's a witness who claims he was in that meeting at the Executive Mansion that has stated before this Court that that envelope was given in my office. Now, here is a man that probably heard about it and has put it all the way to the guesthouse. It is not true. I did give an envelope to Johnny Paul Koroma and the West Side Boys in my office. There was nothing unusual about that. But not at the guesthouse.

  • And he continues - was it Joe Tuah who you sent to the guesthouse, Mr Taylor, with $15,000 in an envelope?

  • "Q. Now, if I can just ask you to pause there for a

    moment. You said that Foday Sankoh told Sam Bockarie to

    send a message to Johnny Paul Koroma so that the two of

    them can meet in Monrovia before going to Freetown. What

    two are you talking about who were to meet in Monrovia?

    A. That is Johnny Paul Koroma was to come to Monrovia

    while Foday Sankoh - when he comes from the Lome peace

    talks, they were to meet in Monrovia before proceeding to

    Freetown. That was what I was trying to talk about.

    Q. Who was it who was to meet in Monrovia?

    A. Foday Sankoh was to meet Johnny Paul Koroma in

    Monrovia. The two of them were to meet his brother Charles

    before ever they proceeded to Freetown.

    Q. When did Foday Sankoh come to Monrovia?

    A. Foday Sankoh came to Monrovia in 1999, but I can't

    remember the date. But before ever Foday Sankoh came, I

    saw - before Foday Sankoh's arrival, they took Johnny Paul

    Koroma from the guesthouse to Hotel Africa because they

    said they didn't want them to stay together. So later I

    saw one man who came called Paul Moriba. At that time he

    was a GSM director. He came and said that he had got

    information that the generator that was at the guesthouse

    was not in good condition and so the Pa, Charles Taylor,

    had instructed him to come and replace it. Immediately

    that generator was replaced, so later Foday Sankoh came and

    met us in Monrovia at the guesthouse."

    Now, again, taking that in stages. Paul Moriba, Mr Taylor?

  • No, there is - he's close to it. There's not a Paul Moriba, but there's a Paul Moniba. There is a Paul Moniba.

  • How do you spell that?

  • M-O-N-I-B-A. I guess he just misspoke. He doesn't know how to pronounce --

  • And who is Paul Moniba?

  • Paul Moniba was director of police.

  • There is no GSM that I know of in Liberia.

  • Well, this witness is saying that Paul Moriba was a GSM director. What is GSM?

  • No, I don't know what GSM really stands for. I have heard the letters GSM, but it's used with communication with - what do they call it - these telephones, like the GSM system. That's the only thing I can associate GSM with.

  • Now, in part you've answered this, Mr Taylor, but for completeness sake, let's deal with it: "They took Johnny Paul Koroma from the guesthouse to Hotel Africa." True or false?

  • Totally false. Johnny Paul Koroma never lived at that guesthouse, no.

  • Do you recall giving instructions to replace the generator at the guesthouse?

  • No, but it would have been automatic if the generator was spoiled. No, but I personally - I would not give an instruction like that. I mean, if the generator was spoiled, Benjamin would know, the Minister of State would know, but that's not something for me to say, "Go and change it." If it was damaged, they would replace it.

  • So, specifically, did you give such an instruction?

  • When Foday Sankoh came to Monrovia in the wake of the Lome talks, where did he stay?

  • He stayed at the guesthouse?

  • "Q. Now, tell us again the name of this person who came to

    replace the generator.

    A. His name was Paul Moriba.

    Q. Now, you mentioned earlier that Johnny Paul Koroma and

    his people went to the Boulevard Hotel, and now you're

    talking about them going to Hotel Africa. Can you explain

    that to us?

    A. Johnny Paul Koroma, when he went to Monrovia, he was at

    the guesthouse. When he was at that guesthouse, he sent

    for his boys from Freetown. When they came, they were

    lodged at the Hotel Boulevard, which was later changed to

    Hotel Royal. So before Foday Sankoh arrived in Monrovia,

    it was just Johnny Paul who was taken from the guesthouse

    to Hotel Africa. That is what I meant.

    Q. Now, do you recall when Foday Sankoh came to Monrovia?

    Do you know, had there been any peace agreement signed when

    he came?

    A. Yes, they had signed.

    Q. What happened after he came to Monrovia?

    A. When he came to Monrovia, he, Johnny Paul Koroma and

    other people met his brother Charles at the mansion in


    Did you meet with Johnny Paul Koroma and Foday Sankoh at the mansion in Monrovia, Mr Taylor?

  • Yes, I did.

  • With other people?

  • With their aide, a few other aides, yes.

  • "Q. When you say the mansion in Monrovia, what are you

    talking about?

    A. I'm talking about the Executive Mansion.

    Q. And how did you know about this meeting at the

    Executive Mansion between Johnny Paul Koroma, Foday Sankoh

    and Charles Taylor?

    A. All of us went. I went to that meeting.

    Q. Did you ever learn what the meeting was about?

    A. I went. At the meeting, they discussed how Foday

    Sankoh - how Johnny Paul Koroma and Foday Sankoh were to

    work together and the other people.

    Q. How did you know that they talked about this?

    A. I have not got you clearly.

    Q. How did you know that that is what they talked about?

    A. When we went to this meeting at the Executive Mansion

    on the fourth floor, we were somewhere where all of us were

    gathered when Foday Sankoh, Johnny Paul Koroma, Mosquito

    and others, all of us met, we ate and it was from there

    that the arrangement was taking place. That's how I


    Pause there. Detail. Fourth floor?

  • Yes, my office is on the fourth floor, yes.

  • And this meeting with Foday Sankoh and Johnny Paul Koroma, was Mosquito there as well?

  • I don't think so, no. Mosquito was not in the meeting with Johnny Paul and Foday Sankoh, no.

  • Was Mosquito in Monrovia at the time?

  • Yes, Mosquito was in Monrovia when Foday Sankoh came. Yes, he was there.

  • "Q. But now my question is how did you yourself know that

    Foday Sankoh, Johnny Paul Koroma and Charles Taylor

    actually talked about during that meeting?

    A. It was Foday Sankoh who said it. He told me.

    Q. Now, what happened after that meeting?

    A. We returned to the guesthouse. Later Foday Sankoh said

    they were to try and go to Freetown, he and Johnny Paul

    Koroma. They arranged the trip. Later we accompanied

    Foday Sankoh to the RIA airport.

    Q. Before Foday Sankoh left to return to Freetown, to your

    knowledge, did Foday Sankoh have any other meetings in


    A. I can't remember.

    Q. Now, while he was at the guesthouse, to your

    recollection, did anyone come to visit him at the


    A. Yes, I can remember. When Foday Sankoh was at the

    guesthouse, I saw - I saw many people who came to him and

    he told us that they were his friends, Special Forces, with

    whom he had trained in Libya together with Charles Taylor.

    He said all of them underwent the training, but I saw

    someone like Joe Tuah, I saw Benjamin Yeaten, I saw Francis

    Mewon with them and others, a lot of them whose names I

    cannot recall now. In this meeting, all of them were happy

    to see Foday Sankoh, because they said all of them had

    undergone training. Since he had gone with his own war,

    they had known that he had been arrested, but since he has

    come back, all of them were happy to see him. So at that

    meeting they song a song. I think they said they were

    singing that Jamahiriya. They said the time that they were

    in Libya, that was the song they were singing during the

    training, so they sang that song for them to remember that

    time. All of them sat together and drank."

    Were you aware of such a meeting, Mr Taylor?

  • No, I was not aware that such a meeting was taking place, no.

  • Would it surprise that you Foday Sankoh would meet up with Special Forces?

  • Because they apparently knew each other. He knew some people. He knew a lot of them because they trained together in the same camp at Tajura. Yes, he would know.

  • And Francis Mewon, do you know that name?

  • Was he was a Special Forces?

  • Joe Tuah, Special Forces as well?

  • And then let's continue:

    "Q. Do you know what position Foday Sankoh was given in

    the Sierra Leone government after the peace agreement was


    A. I understood that they gave him a position whereby he

    was to be in control of the diamond business. That was

    the understanding I got.

    Q. And how did you get that understanding?

    A. I knew when we returned to Freetown. He himself told


    Q. Now, you said that Foday Sankoh left out of RIA

    airport. Who accompanied him to the airport?

    A. I myself accompanied him to the airport, together with

    some Liberian securities. He was escorted to the airport.

    We were there when they departed. From there we returned

    to the guesthouse, I and Mosquito.

    Q. When you reached RIA airport, did you see any

    securities around the airport?

    A. Yes, I saw securities.

    Q. Did you know who these securities were?

    A. They were SSUs. SSU securities.

    Q. You said that 'they' departed. Who are 'they'?

    A. Foday Sankoh and Johnny Paul Koroma's group. All of

    them went.

    Q. Now, you said that you and Mosquito went back to the

    guesthouse after this departure. What happened after that?

    A. When we returned to the guesthouse, Benjamin Yeaten

    came and collected Mosquito. He said that they were to go

    and meet the Pa, Charles Taylor, to arrange about his

    return. So they went and met Charles Taylor. Mosquito

    returned to the guesthouse and said that the Pa had said

    they should try and return. The following day, Mosquito

    and I and Benjamin Yeaten went to Spriggs field. When we

    went to Spriggs field to accompany Mosquito, we boarded the

    helicopter that was to take Mosquito. In this helicopter,

    I saw Benjamin Yeaten - I heard Benjamin Yeaten saying,

    'Mosquito, these materials have been given by my dad,

    Charles Taylor, because as my brother, Foday Sankoh, was

    going to Freetown, you should be keeping security and so

    you should take along this ammunition to Buedu.' So from

    there we alighted the helicopter.

    Q. Now, when you were in the helicopter, what did you see

    inside this helicopter?

    A. I saw AK - I saw AK rounds in the tins. We used to

    call them sardine tins which contained the AK rounds. I

    saw up to 15. 15 of those tins. Then I saw RPG bombs with

    the TNT. It was - they were in the helicopter.

    Q. Mr Witness, when you say you saw 15 tins, what were in

    these 15 tins, if you know?

    A. They contained the AK rounds.

    Q. What kind of helicopter was this that these materials

    were in?

    A. Well, this time it was a helicopter that had a

    camouflage colour. It had a camouflage colour.

    Q. And did you know whose helicopter it was?

    A. Yes, Benjamin Yeaten told us that it was owned by his

    dad, Charles Taylor."

    Pause there. Do you see what's being suggested there, Mr Taylor?

  • Yes, I do.

  • It is being suggested that, on the one hand, whilst Johnny Paul Koroma and Foday Sankoh were leaving Monrovia amidst much fanfare, and we've looked at the various press releases, haven't we, you were at the same - on the other hand, providing arms in a helicopter for Mosquito to take back to Buedu. Did you do that?

  • I did not do that. And if that happened, then there must be complicity on the part of the UN because the helicopter that is being used to ferry RUF people, whether they're going to Vahun or whether they're going to another place, the only helicopter that is available is a UN helicopter.

  • But you've told us earlier, Mr Taylor, that UN helicopters are painted white.

  • The witness is suggesting this is a camouflage helicopter.

  • We do not have a helicopter. That's the point I'm making. We do not have a helicopter at this time with any camouflage. We don't have one.

  • We're talking about October 1999, aren't we?

  • Early, 2nd, 3rd of October 1999.

  • Yes, that's what we're talking about.

  • Did the Liberian government own a helicopter with camouflage livery?

  • In 2000, we did. In 2000.

  • Now, I need to clarify something you mentioned earlier, Mr Taylor. You said earlier that Sankoh, Joe Tuah, Yeaten and Mewon had trained together in Libya. This is at page 87 of the transcript, lines 1 to 7. What did you mean by "trained together"?

  • Well, okay, that's a good question. They trained in the same camp. Not as a unit, okay. They trained in Tajura and they knew each other. They trained in Tajura.

  • Now, as far as you're aware, Mr Taylor, were the Sierra Leoneans and the Liberians in Tajura being trained together as a unit?

  • No, they never trained together as a unit, no.

  • How do you know that?

  • Because I would have been told. I would have been told by my commander that they were training together with the Sierra Leoneans. After training they knew each other, and I think that's where Foday Sankoh made friends with some of them, but they did not train as a unit, no.

  • Now, Mr Taylor, this is a serious allegation being made by this witness that you were, in the months immediately after Lome, in flagrant breach of the terms of that agreement you were providing ammunition and rocket propelled grenades to the RUF. Were you doing that, Mr Taylor?

  • No, I was not. It's a blatant lie. That is not true. That is not true.

  • And then he continues:

    "When we alighted the helicopter I returned to the

    guesthouse whilst Sam Bockarie and others went.

    Q. Can you tell us who these others were that went with

    Sam Bockarie?

    A. Sam Bockarie went with his bodyguards.

    Q. What happened with Benjamin Yeaten?

    A. Benjamin Yeaten did not go. He too returned to his


    Now, let's deal with something else. Question, page 12986 of the transcript:

    "Q. Mr Witness, you have testified that Foday Sankoh left

    and went back to Monrovia. Before he left to go back to

    Monrovia did he give you any instructions?"

    I guess that should be went back to Freetown.

  • Excuse me, I'm not sure, but it says here that after this page they went into private session, and I haven't been able to find the reference that counsel is referring to now, so I don't know if this is private session or not.

  • Yes, are you reading from the private transcript, Mr Griffiths?

  • Then in that case I would certainly ask that this not be in public and that what was read be redacted.

  • I'll just check what was read. How far back does the private session go on what has just been read out?

  • Well, I'd only just started on a question. So nothing in the answer was read out, so I see no reason for a redaction here, frankly.

  • Well, the question that he read is in private session. He is in fact putting it now on the public record.

  • This all starts from, "Now let's deal with something else. Question, page 12986 of the transcript." Is that correct? And all he says is:

    "'Q. Mr Witness, you've testified that Foday Sankoh left

    and went back to Monrovia. Before he left to go back to

    Monrovia, did he give you any instructions?'

    I guess that should be went back to Freetown."

    I think if it stops there I can't see how that would reveal a witness's identity. What are you seeking to redact, Ms Hollis?

  • Well, it's a little confusing. I haven't been able to open the transcript yet to see exactly what this question is in the transcript, but I certainly do know that beginning at the end of 4 July we went into private session and that any questions thereafter were part of private session. I guess we're going to the next day after 4 July. I haven't been able to call that up yet.

  • I see. Would you agree, Ms Hollis, that nothing has been said so far that would need redaction inasmuch as nothing that's been said so far would reveal the identity of the witness?

  • I think that's right.

  • Well, it looks as though if you're going to continue with evidence that has already been given in private session, Mr Griffiths, then we should close the Court.

  • Well, it means that we're going to have to close the Court for a little while, because I'm just observing there is something like 12 or 13 issues that I'd like to deal with, all of which took place during private session.

  • All right. I don't have the transcript but it was private session, not closed session?

  • It was private question.

  • All right. I think we're going to have to go into private session again.

  • Mr Griffiths, I was just recalling a practice we had in the past - and of course Ms Hollis as well - whereby either side could ask a question arising out of closed session in such a way that you actually don't reveal whose testimony this is arising from with a general statement like, "A witness said" or "There was evidence that".

  • Well, your Honour, it is a fact that nothing that I intend to refer to would reveal the identity of the witness. There is nothing on the face of it that I intend to refer to that was dealt with which would in any way compromise the decision made for this to be held in private session.

  • Well, Mr Griffiths, without knowing what you're going to ask, I'm afraid I can't really tell whether it would reveal the identity of the witness or not. But the fact remains that we already know the witness's pseudonym, it's TF1-567, and so if there's 13 pages that were given in private session --

  • Well, there are more than 13 pages. There's 13 points that I would like to deal with in respect of his evidence.

  • You're saying you can ask those questions quoting from - I presume - quoting from the evidence given by this witness without revealing any --

  • All right. What do you say, Ms Hollis?

  • I object to that. This is private session testimony because of the uniqueness of the positions that were going to be spoken about. It would be an after-the-fact redaction as to instances where the testimony was revealed. We have on the record, as you indicated, the pseudonym of this witness. We have the open testimony of this witness. These facts are not taken in isolation. Instead, they build a composite picture that we believe would identify this witness, and that's why your Honours granted the private session, and we should go in private session if we're dealing with private session evidence, in the view of the Prosecution.

  • [Trial Chamber conferred]

  • Yes, we agree with the Prosecution's submission. There could be a danger that the witness we're talking about could be revealed if you continue to ask questions about evidence that was given in a private session. So I think, Mr Griffiths, we'll go into private session.

  • Very well.

  • For those members of the public, there's going to be evidence led now that might reveal the identity of a protected witness, so the Court is now going to go into private session. What that means is that the public will be able to see the proceedings, but not hear the proceedings.

    Madam Court Manager, could you make the appropriate arrangements, please.

  • [At this point in the proceedings, a portion of the transcript, pages 20772 to 28793, was extracted and sealed under separate cover, as the proceeding was heard in private session.]

  • [Open session]

  • [Upon resuming at 2.50 p.m.]

  • Madam Court Manager, are we in public session now?

  • Your Honour, we're in open session.

  • Before we go back into private session, for the record this trial has been delayed because the court reporter who has been recording the evidence was taken ill. There was not immediately available another court reporter, so one had to be brought up from the Special Court office. That reporter is now in place and the trial will be able to proceed once more.

    I've been informed that the questions and answers given before the previous court reporter stopped working, although they appear on LiveNote as being quite incomprehensible, I'm told that they are recorded on audio and there's no need to repeat them.

    Madam Court Manager, we'll go back to private session, please.

  • [At this point in the proceedings, a portion of the transcript, pages 28795 to 28826, was extracted and sealed under separate cover, as the proceeding was heard in private session.]

  • [Open session]

  • Your Honour, we're in open session.

  • We're now in open session. Please continue, Mr Griffiths.

  • "Q. If you know, who did Sam Bockarie have contact with

    after he came to Monrovia?

    A. When Sam Bockarie came to Monrovia, he had contact with

    Benjamin Yeaten even before they went to Charles Taylor."

    What do you say about that, Mr Taylor?

  • Well, yes, counsel, but the account that this witness gave before we came into open session I think is --

  • I would prefer he not repeat that account if he is going to repeat the private session information.

  • I thought the account was from the open session, I'm sorry.

  • He said, "Before we came into open session." I don't know what he's going to say, but if he is going to repeat private session information I would prefer he not do it in open session.

  • Yes, you have mentioned you are going to mention something that was said in private session, Mr Taylor.

  • That is correct, your Honour. Maybe I made an error. The passage that you read just before this one, it's a paragraph before this one, where he gives an account of why Issa - I mean why Sam Bockarie moves to Liberia.

  • That was said in open session on the record.

  • All right. If it's in open session, go ahead.

  • What were you going to say, Mr Taylor?

  • If you read the account of his accounting of the reason or reasons why Sam Bockarie came to Liberia, that alone should bring into question some things. Because it points out to me that if this witness is so important, number one, I didn't know him. I remember the other man that came which was Gibril. But if he is playing such an important role, and he's mentioned his role here as moving arms and ammunition from three locations, he's mentioned his role as doing a lot of things, then how come he doesn't know why Sam Bockarie left Sierra Leone and his account there is far from the truth, or at least it's - it's not the story.

    So I have a problem with, you know - as we go along, his recollection of what happened is at best skewed in a direction that is far from the truth. Now, we've introduced documentary evidence as to why Sam Bockarie left. So his account - I mean I have serious problems with his account of why and how Sam Bockarie left.

  • I'm asking you now about a particular detail of what he's saying. When Sam Bockarie came to Monrovia, he had contact with Benjamin Yeaten even before they went to Charles Taylor. What do you say about that?

  • I really don't - I really don't know what he means, but if he had contact with Benjamin Yeaten, yes, I'm sure he should have, that was the security personnel who was responsible for Sam Bockarie's security even after he came to Liberia, yes.

  • And he continues:

    "Q. To your knowledge did Sam Bockarie have any contact

    with Charles Taylor after he came to Monrovia?

    A. Yes, he had contact with him. They went to him.

    Himself, Benjamin Yeaten and Jungle."

    Mr Taylor, do you recall that?

  • How would he know even if that happened? That didn't happen. How would he know?

  • Let's just forget about how he would know. Let's just deal with the specific question asked. Do you recall meeting Sam Bockarie with Benjamin Yeaten and this man Jungle?

  • And he continues:

    "Q. And do you have any knowledge of how often that would


    A. When Mosquito was in Monrovia he used to go and see

    Charles Taylor at all times, Jungle used to tell me that."

    Is that true, Mr Taylor?

  • That's a lie.

  • Mr Taylor, help us. What reason did you have to be seeing Bockarie on a regular basis after he relocated to Monrovia in December 1999?

  • No reason whatsoever, counsel. None. I mean, it didn't happen.

  • In August of 2000, Mr Taylor, who was appointed interim leader of the RUF?

  • So who were you dealing with in terms of events in Sierra Leone from then on?

  • Help us. Did you have any reason to be seeing Bockarie on a regular basis?

  • Mr Taylor, you do recall the occasion when some UN peacekeepers were taken hostage after Issa Sesay became interim leader of the RUF?

  • That is correct.

  • How did you find out about that?

  • When you say - that's UN individuals taken hostage after Issa Sesay becomes leader?

  • That's right. How did you find out about the taking of the hostages?

  • Well, it was on international wires, news reports. That's the first place we hear things from.

  • According to this witness:

    "After our return to Foya, Junior Vandi and others called Benjamin Yeaten and told him that Issa Sesay sent them and he said that word should be taken to the Pa, Charles Taylor, that they had captured so many UN troops with guns from them. So the Pa, Charles Taylor, they needed advice from him."

    What do you say about that, Mr Taylor?

  • I'm a little mixed up on this one about UN peacekeepers.

  • Troops with guns, and they were seeking your advice as to what to do with them?

  • No, I wouldn't know. That's not true. That's not true. Totally, totally untrue. That somebody called me to seek my advice on what to do with them when earlier I had had them - I had UN peacekeepers released. He said after Issa Sesay became leader?

  • So, Mr Taylor, did you provide advice as to what to do with those UN troops?

  • The only thing that I did on the UN troop situation was to tell Issa Sesay to release those people and release them unconditionally and that they - the peacekeepers from the UN would not be a part of any bargaining forever and I don't - that's why I'm saying the whole thing now as it's looking, I mean it's a little off track but I don't recall that part that he explains there, but whatever advice I had to do with the UN peacekeepers, I told them to release them and those that were released, I turned them over.

  • I'm looking at page 13038 of the transcript of 7 July 2008

    and the witness continues:

    "So after Junior Vandi and Daf had given the message to Benjamin Yeaten, Benjamin Yeaten responded that his dad Charles Taylor will immediately know about that. So I went with Junior Vandi and others back to Sierra Leone and when I went and met with CO Issa Sesay, he told me that he will give me one vehicle, a pick-up from the same United Nations vehicles, so that my operations will be fast tracked for me to be able to be taking the arms and ammunition. So he gave me the vehicle. So I went with this vehicle to Monrovia."

    Understand what's being said, Mr Taylor: That this witness is given a stolen United Nations vehicle in Sierra Leone which he then proceeds to drive to Monrovia to collect arms and ammunition from you. What do you say about that?

  • I say that's a lie.

  • Tell me, Mr Taylor, were there UN vehicles in Monrovia at this time?

  • When you say were there UN vehicles in Monrovia at this time, what - I don't - will you help me?

  • This individual, he doesn't give a date but he is talking about sometime after August 2000 when Issa Sesay becomes the commanding officer of the RUF that he drives a stolen UN vehicle clear from Sierra Leone to Monrovia. What do you say about that?

  • I say it's a lie because if any UN vehicle crosses that border from Sierra Leone - I mean normally the UN system in Liberia would know. There's a special representative there that is in full contact with the government. His colleague in Sierra Leone would have that information to him already. So if he drove a UN vehicle from Sierra Leone into Liberia, he would be arrested and the vehicle. So I don't see what he is talking about. That is not true.

  • Now listen to this:

    "When I arrived in Monrovia" - supposedly in the stolen UN vehicle - "it did not take long when Benjamin Yeaten told me - and that time Benjamin Yeaten told me that I should try and call Issa Sesay and that his dad, Charles Taylor, wanted to see him urgently, so I sent. Issa Sesay came. He came to Monrovia. When they arrived in Monrovia, they went and met the Pa Charles Taylor. After they had gone there and held a meeting with him, from there" - and listen to this Mr Taylor, page 13039 of the transcript. "From there when Issa Sesay and others returned home, he was telling me that to his surprise when they went to the Pa Charles Taylor, they met Sam Bockarie there and he said the Pa said he wanted to negotiate between them for the things that happened in Sierra Leone so as to enable Mosquito to go back."

    What do you say about that?

  • This is totally bizarre. Totally false. Totally false.

  • What did you know, Mr Taylor, about the circumstances which led to Sam Bockarie's departure from Sierra Leone and his relationship with Issa Sesay?

  • Major, major, major confusion. Issa Sesay supported, who was considered his family man, Foday Sankoh in this process. And they in fact considered Sam Bockarie as being very rude and disrespectful to the old man and it was Issa Sesay apparently that Sankoh was using to go to confront Sam Bockarie. So they --

  • And do what to Sam Bockarie?

  • And attack Sam Bockarie, okay. That did not take place because of the extraction, but I was not aware of any good cordial relationship between Issa Sesay and Sam Bockarie after Sam Bockarie left Liberia.

  • If fact, Mr Taylor, if the relationship between Bockarie and the RUF was as hunky-dory as this witness suggests, help us, why did you not house him at the RUF guesthouse in Monrovia?

  • We probably would have had a case of murder in Monrovia. I didn't want that. I didn't want to bring the Sierra Leonean war in Monrovia city. It would have been impossible for those two groups to have stayed there. No, no.

  • Now, Mr Taylor, putting it bluntly, did you attempt to broker some kind of peace between Bockarie and Issa Sesay?

  • And the witness continues: "But the two of them had serious argument. Sam Bockarie complained that it was Issa Sesay who made him to leave Sierra Leone and to come to Liberia. And Issa Sesay too was saying that he - it was he who did not listen to the Pa. So there was a heated argument between the two of them. From there he said the Pa Charles Taylor went angry and he said, 'Benjamin Yeaten, take Issa Sesay back.' So he said they came to the guesthouse and he left Mosquito there. So those were some of the things that happened."

    Mr Taylor, did any of that happen?

  • None of this happened. None. None. None. None.

  • Remember in relation to the UN troops you were providing advice, yes? Remember we looked at that a little earlier?

  • "Q. Did you learn why Issa Sesay was seeking advice from

    Charles Taylor?

    A. Yes, after I went and met Issa Sesay he told me it was

    because Charles Taylor was our big revolutionary father. So he said he went to him for him to give him advice.

    Q. Tell us what advice he received, if you know?

    A. Well, after Issa Sesay met the Pa Charles Taylor he

    said he told him that he, Charles Taylor - he would request

    for the UN peacekeepers arrested by the RUF for them to be

    released. So he said that will serve as a help to him and

    to show to the world that when he says anything, that

    things will happen."

    Did you have such a conversation with Issa Sesay, Mr Taylor.

  • No, not - not this kind of conversation. I really don't - I really don't understand, we are getting periods - this witness - I don't understand what this witness is talking about.

  • Mr Taylor, let's look directly at what the witness is saying. That you said in effect, "You, Issa Sesay, release these peacekeepers. Why? Because that will help me, Charles Taylor, to show to the world that when I say something, it happens." You're the big boss. What do you say about that, Mr Taylor?

  • I say that's total foolishness. That never happened. It's a lie. But anyway, I don't want to whatchamacallit because I don't know - what period is this man talking about here? Because all these conversations and different - I don't know what period is he talking about because he hasn't given us an indication of what he is talking about here.

  • Well, let me try and help you. He continues: "So after he returned" - that is Issa Sesay - "the UN peacekeepers were released through Charles Taylor's command." Is that right Mr Taylor? Did you command him to release them?

  • No, but I mean I'm not sure - I don't want to be accused of misleading the Court. The release of UN peacekeepers don't happen after Issa Sesay is made leader. So that's why I keep going through my head and trying to see what this man is talking about, okay.

  • When did the release of the UN peacekeepers take place?

  • They took place back in May. Not after August of 2000, okay. So I don't - so that's why I keep trying to - I don't want to be accused of misleading the Court. This UN hostage situation occurs, okay, right after the problem with Foday Sankoh being arrested, okay. And those peacekeepers are released, okay, and then the issue comes up of who do we talk to? Issa Sesay is invited to Liberia in July of 2000 and he returns. Alpha Konare and Obasanjo go to Freetown, meet Sankoh, get his approval and he is made leader in August of 2000.

  • We've looked at that documentation, Mr Taylor, and you are right, but we have to deal with what the witness is saying and the witness is saying that the release of these peacekeepers came about when you, in effect, summonsed Issa Sesay to Monrovia and laid down the law. "I command you to release them." That's what the witness is saying. What do you say about that?

  • I say it's a lie. I did not command him. I not lay down the law. If anything that I did, it was to express to Issa Sesay in a very forceful way the wishes and demands of the international community. That these UN peacekeepers have to be released if you know what's good for you. The United Nations - the world is going to come down on you like a hammer. You better release them and it cannot be - I was the one that even stated to colleagues of mine including Kofi Annan before this that there will be no attachment - that the release of those hostages could not be tied to the release of Foday Sankoh, but I was revealing the wishes of the entire international community and not laying down the law by myself, no.

  • Mr Taylor, when you spoke to Issa Sesay about that --

  • -- by what means did you communicate with him?

  • Face-to-face. I summonsed - he came to Liberia. He came to Liberia. He came to Liberia and I told him - I told him, I say, "The UN people that you have must be released. The international community is not going to accept this, they are not going to tolerate it and, young man, you don't even know what you're messing with. You better let these people go." He started talking about Foday Sankoh and I said, "No, the Foday Sankoh issues are different. You release these people and we talk about Foday Sankoh later. We cannot tie Foday Sankoh's release to these hostages."

    And this was what had been discussed by every individual state, the Secretary-General, members of ECOWAS, that was the decision. So what I was revealing at that time was not something that Charles Taylor had cooked up. It was a decision that had been taken by all. It was expressed to Issa Sesay and he understood it and I said okay and he went back and he started releasing the hostages.

  • "A. So after he returned" - that being Issa Sesay - "the

    UN peacekeepers were released through Charles Taylor's

    command. All of them came to Foya and from Foya they were

    airlifted to Spriggs field.

    Q. When Issa Sesay left Monrovia to go back to Sierra

    Leone how did he travel from Monrovia?

    A. They travelled on board a helicopter to go to Foya. It

    was at Foya that the helicopter dropped him, and from there

    he took a vehicle to return to Sierra Leone.

    Q. If you know, whose helicopter was it?

    A. It was Charles Taylor's helicopter.

    Q. Did Issa Sesay take anything back with him to Sierra


    A. Yes, when Issa Sesay was going, he took with him

    ammunition, but I can't recall the quantity that he took

    with him."

    Now, do you understand what's being said, Mr Taylor?

  • Sesay comes to Monrovia ostensibly to negotiate the release of some UN hostages, and on the way back you just load him up with some ammunitions to take back to Sierra Leone. Mr Taylor, what do you say about that?

  • I say it's a blatant lie, and he has just been contradicted by one of the witnesses just before this, who said in the very transcripts that when Issa Sesay went back on the helicopter, there was nothing. There's another witness just one or two before this, so he contradict one of the Prosecution witnesses.

  • "Q. How do you know that he took ammunition with him?

    A. When Issa Sesay used to come to Monrovia, I will be

    with him for all the time until his return. I went with

    him to Spriggs Field. I entered the helicopter and I saw

    the materials. That was how I come to know that he went

    with ammunition.

    Q. Do you know from whom he received this ammunition?

    A. At all times when ammunition were given Benjamin Yeaten

    will say that it is his dad, Charles Taylor, who provided


    Now, in another passage, Mr Taylor, this witness revisited that other witness, Mr Sherif.

    "Q. You testified earlier that you met Varmuyan Sherif in

    Liberia. Where in Liberia did you meet him?

    A. I met him in Liberia around Congo Town area, and I also

    met him at various front lines. Those were the areas I

    used to meet with him.

    Q. When you say Congo Town, where is Congo Town located?

    A. Congo Town is around the Tubman Boulevard Highway, and

    Varmuyan Sherif was on a road that was called the back road

    in Congo Town.

    Q. In what city is Congo Town located?

    A. It is in Monrovia.

    Q. When you met Varmuyan Sherif in Monrovia, where was he


    A. He was working at the Executive Mansion at the same

    time he was working at the front lines.

    Q. How do you know he was working at the front lines?

    A. When I used to meet him he used to tell me, he himself,

    and some of the RUF soldiers who had crossed over were with


    What do you understand by that Mr Taylor? Some of the RUF soldiers who had crossed over with Varmuyan Sherif, what do you understand by that?

  • That Varmuyan Sherif had RUF men with him.

  • And he continues:

    "Q. What do you mean, 'RUF soldiers who had crossed over'?

    A. Some RUF soldiers who were there during those

    fightings, like in the case of the Guinea fighting, the

    Lofa fighting, who used to come to Monrovia, some used to

    stay with him."

    Do you know of RUF fighters staying with Varmuyan Sherif in Liberia?

  • No, I know nothing about it. Know nothing about it. This could have been Varmuyan boys, the ULIMO boys.

  • And he goes on:

    "Q. You said 'during the Guinea fighting'. Who were the

    RUF fighting against at that time?

    A. The Guinea fighting at that time, it was Benjamin

    Yeaten who used to coordinate everything. At that time he

    was - the position he carried was a joint chief of staff,

    chairman chief, and so he was in control of all the other

    generals. He was the head. So he went and based in Foya

    in order to coordinate the RUF troops that were supposed to

    come from Sierra Leone to meet him there. And the other

    militia and the ATU, they were supposed to come together as

    combined forces to go and attack Guinea, so that was how

    the operation was going on.

    Q. What time period was this?

    A. This happened in - it happened in 2000. Late 2000.

    Q. And for how long did the RUF stay there fighting with

    Benjamin Yeaten?

    A. RUF soldiers were there up to the time when the war

    came to an end."

    Is that true, Mr Taylor?

  • Not to my knowledge, no.

  • You understand what he is saying?

  • He is - what he is saying is that the RUF were cooperating with the ATU, yes?

  • And with other militia forces to fight and attack Guinea?

  • Did that happen, Mr Taylor?

  • That never happened, and we can refer to a witness who is not protected. If you look at a Prosecution witness's statement here who deals with the ATU that he was a part of, Jabaty Jaward deals with this whole issue factually, that the ATU never, ever went in even in the location of Lofa. He dealt with it. Not even in the location of Lofa. Never went around there. The second place that he is very, very wrong: At this time he is talking about, Varmuyan Sherif does not work at the mansion. Varmuyan Sherif works with the immigration. We've moved him from that mansion after he goes mad. When he is cured, he comes back, he is sent to immigration, okay? So he has got it all mixed up. There is no such thing. Now, on dealing with - on dealing with RUF quote unquote fighters with Varmuyan Sherif, the only thing I can lay on that, when I think about Varmuyan boys that he has spread around, including Abu Keita that came here, when you look at these boys, I can just say these are the ULIMO-K - the ULIMO-K boys that may have been around Varmuyan Sherif, that he is referring to RUF because Varmuyan has sent the Abu Keita and others, okay, into Sierra Leone, and it had been said here that Abu Keita sat here and said I sent him as a one-man army. So he has this whole information. It is very, very much misleading. It is not factual.

  • Would it surprise you, such a connection between Varmuyan Sherif and RUF combatants?

  • No, it would not surprise me. It would not surprise me. It would not.

  • Well, Varmuyan Sherif had a very long history with the RUF. At the time that ULIMO occupied Lofa, okay, all the way back since Lofa was cut off from the NPFL all the way back in '92, Varmuyan Sherif then - they are the senior most high generals --

  • Yes, Mr Taylor, but at the time when you were President of Liberia, were you aware that Varmuyan Sherif had such contacts with the RUF?

  • No. No, I was - I was not aware. And the only time I became aware of the - of this relationship was when I saw that letter from the ambassador about the RUF contact in Monrovia. I couldn't believe it, that they had a contact in Monrovia, Varmuyan Sherif. But up until that time I did not even know that they had established this contact during the time of the closure of that whole area by ULIMO. I didn't really know. So it would not surprise me that he had had all these years - so we can say from 1993 all the way up to 1998 when I get to know this, he knows them very well. He knows them.

  • One final matter in relation to this witness, and I hope we can conclude it today.

    "Q. Mr Witness, do you recall for us the year in which

    Foday Sankoh was arrested.

    A. In 2000. That was the time it took place.

    Q. Do you remember the month?

    A. It was in May, but I can't recall the date.

    Q. Thank you, Mr Witness. Mr Witness, can you tell us how

    you learned that Issa Sesay was arrested?

    A. I heard that over the BBC."

  • Issa Sesay was arrested.

    "A. Now, at the time you heard about Issa Sesay being

    indicted and that he was to be arrested, did you learn

    about anyone else who had been indicted?

    A. Yes, I heard that Sam Bockarie too of the RUF was


    Q. Did they say anything else about Sam Bockarie at that


    A. Yes, they did say that they indicted Sam Bockarie also.

    Q. After you heard that Sam Bockarie had been indicted,

    did you learn about anything happening to Sam Bockarie?

    A. Yes. After the news came out, at that time I was in

    Liberia. I was in an area called Limba County.

    Sam Bockarie and some others were in Ivory Coast fighting,

    and later I got the understanding" -

    I got the understanding, note:

    "- that Sam Bockarie had returned with his group. Later I

    got an understanding from one RUF soldier who was assigned

    with Benjamin Yeaten and he was called Salami ..."

    Does that name mean anything to you, Mr Taylor?

  • Not at all, no.

  • "Q. He came to me and told me, 'Well, they have killed

    Sam Bockarie together with his family and beaucoup are the

    soldiers.' So I said, 'What happened actually that

    Sam Bockarie was killed?' He said that Benjamin Yeaten

    told him that Charles Taylor gave the order that they

    should kill Sam Bockarie so as to destroy evidence against

    him. He said because they had accused Charles Taylor and

    have related him to the RUF business, so he said that was

    the reason why they should kill Charles Taylor and that was

    the reason why Charles Taylor passed the order for him to

    be killed. He said that was why they killed Sam Bockarie.

    They killed his wife, they killed his children and so many

    other soldiers who were Sierra Leoneans. He said that was

    the reason. That was how I knew that Sam Bockarie had been


    Now note, Mr Taylor, Benjamin Yeaten tells Salami. Salami tells him. So that's the route by which this information comes, yes?

  • Now help us, did you give Benjamin Yeaten such an order?

  • Never gave Benjamin Yeaten, never did. Never gave him that order.

  • Did you in effect, Mr Taylor, seek to cover your tracks by killing Sam Bockarie in order to silence him? Do you follow me?

  • Yes. But no, I never did. Why would I cover my tracks? Sam Bockarie is killed in 2003, if I'm not mistaken. What tracks do I have to cover? None.

  • Well, the Prosecution would say your dealings with him in terms of arms and ammunition and diamonds?

  • Well, but why would I want to cover my tracks? I mean, I'm not in - I haven't been accused through any indictment by any Court or anything, so why would - at the time of the death of Sam Bockarie, so I don't have any tracks to cover.

  • At the time that Sam Bockarie was killed, were you aware that there was an indictment outstanding against you?

  • When did you first become aware?

  • I was in Accra. I was in Accra. I was there in June of 2003 at a Heads of State meeting in Accra when - in fact, a peace - a peace meeting with some Heads of State that an indictment was announced.

  • Well, you must have had a crystal ball, Mr Taylor, which told you that in anticipation of such an indictment, I ought to kill Sam Bockarie. Is that the case?

  • I note the time, Mr President. Would that be a convenient point?

  • Yes, that's a convenient point. We're going to adjourn, Mr Taylor. But before we do, I'll remind you that you are ordered not to discuss your evidence with any other person. We'll adjourn until 9.30 tomorrow.

  • [Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 4.30 p.m. to be reconvened on Tuesday, 15 September 2009 at 9.30 a.m.]