The transcripts of the trial of Charles Taylor, former President of Liberia. More…

  • Thank you, Madam President:

  • I would like to first correct two spellings. We reviewed the transcript on Friday and I spelt some names and two of these names are not correctly spelt in the transcript and it can well be my French accent. I am just going to go over the names again. It is page 40 of the transcript. The first name was Dopoe Menkarzon and the first name, Dopoe, is spelt wrongly in the transcript and the correct spelling is D-O-P-O-E. The second one is Joe Montgomery, which is spelt Montgomtery in the transcript, so the correct spelling of Montgomery, page 40 in the transcript as well, would be M-O-N-T-G-O-M-E-R-Y:

  • Good morning, Mr Witness.

  • Tell him good morning.

  • Mr Witness, are you having a problem hearing the interpreter?

  • No, I have no problem, but my speaker is not functioning. I am greeting you.

  • Mr Witness, you told us on Friday that after the meeting with the Gambians you spent two weeks with Mustapha Jallow in Zorzor. Do you remember that?

  • Yes, I can remember it.

  • You said that you were his assistant and you worked as security for FATCO and ATCO companies. Do you remember that?

  • Now, it was not clear in the transcript when that happened, which year, if you can remember?

  • Yes, it happened in 1992 in January, at the beginning.

  • Thank you, Mr Witness. Now, on Friday as well you said that in 1992 NPFL General 245 came to Cobra Base to collect recruits on two occasions. Do you remember that?

  • Tell me the year, 19 what?

  • On Friday you testified that that happened in 1992.

  • And you said, on Friday, that at that time General 245 was based in Lofa County at the border between Sierra Leone and Liberia. Do you remember that?

  • Yes, I can remember. It was that time.

  • And you said that the first time she came to collect recruits at Cobra Base she collected two companies comprised of Sierra Leoneans and Liberians, and the second time she came she collected one company comprised of Sierra Leoneans and Liberians, and talking about the first time she came, you said that when she took these two companies the information you got was that the recruits went to Sierra Leone in a place called Daru.

  • Yes, that was what I told you.

  • My question is this, Mr Witness: What, if anything, did you learn about the reason why these recruits were taken to Daru in Sierra Leone at that time?

  • Can we learn when and from whom because he might have learnt something last week about this. We need to be specific if we are going to have sweeping hearsay questions of this sort.

  • That is correct, Mr Werner.

  • Mr Witness, when did you learn that information about the recruits being taken to Daru?

  • Tell him that was not the news. It happened in my presence. She came to collect them from our training base.

  • But the fact that these recruits were taken to Daru, when did you learn that?

  • Tell him this happened in the year 1992.

  • What, if anything, did you learn about the reason why these recruits were taken to Daru?

  • Tell him that not only those people, NPFL soldiers and RUF soldiers, were fighting at the time. RUF was a brother to NPFL. RUF soldiers were younger brothers to NPFL.

  • And, if you know, when they were taken to Daru to what group were they assigned?

  • Tell him they were with RUF soldiers. They went there to help them.

  • Concerning the recruit of the second batch that General 245 collected in Cobra Base, one company, where did they go?

  • Tell him they also went to Sierra Leone to help RUF.

  • Where in Sierra Leone?

  • Tell him I was not in Sierra Leone, but the recruits who returned, the ones I saw, what they told me was that they went to Daru barracks.

  • To what group were they assigned in Daru barracks, the second batch?

  • They went to join RUF.

  • Now, on Friday you said that after the two weeks you spent with Mustapha Jallow in Zorzor you took your assignment at Cobra Base as an instructor and then you said that Cobra Base was your permanent assignment, but sometimes you went for TDY assignment. Do you remember saying that?

  • Tell him yes, I said that.

  • And how many times were you on TDY?

  • Tell him that in that two weeks, upon my return I went back and spent two weeks for TDY.

  • I still am not clear what TDY is.

  • Mr Witness, what does TDY stand for, if you know?

  • That is the temporal duties of the year.

  • I understood him saying temporary duties of the year. On the LiveNote it is temporary duty of the day, so I am going to ask him again.

  • He did say year. I don't think there is any doubt about it.

  • I didn't hear what he said. Please ask again.

  • Mr Witness, could you tell the Court again what does TDY stand for, slowly if you can?

  • I said temporal duties of the year.

  • So, could you explain - when you say you went on TDY, what do you mean? Can you explain further?

  • That is the places you go to work, not permanent place of work. Just you go there and come back.

  • So you came back to Cobra Base and then you said - how long did you stay in Cobra Base when you came back from the two weeks in Zorzor?

  • Tell him that our first battalion, we train our first battalion. When we train our second battalion, then we return to Lofa and spend TDY here.

  • Then when you say "we return to Lofa" who are you talking about?

  • I said myself. When I do the thing - when I was at Cobra Base I train one battalion, the first battalion. When we were training our first battalion that was the time I was - they return me to Lofa where I spent three months TDY.

  • Who, if anyone, told you to return to Lofa?

  • Tell him that Mustapha came with a paper to the base and told me to go for an assignment, but he came with the paper from our SSS office because that time he was the only one who was staying there and he thinks that he needs somebody who is supposed to be with him.

  • When you say Mustapha, who are you talking about?

  • I am referring to General Mustapha Jallow.

  • And when did that happen?

  • Tell him, tell him this was in 1982, early part of 1982 - 1992, sorry.

  • So what did you do after that, if anything?

  • I was at Lofa, TDY, as his assistant at FATCO company near Zorzor where our base was.

  • What, if anything, did you see during your time there with Mustapha Jallow?

  • Tell him that at that time during my TDY we kept the security of the company and also we have a ghetto on the road where the soldiers used to keep - make a --

  • Your Honours, may the witness be asked to repeat that bit of his evidence.

  • Mr Witness, the interpreter needs you to repeat the last part of your reply again, please. I have noticed you said "during TDY we kept security of the company", please continue from there.

  • I said at that time we kept security, ATCO and FATCO company security. We were responsible for that. Also we have a ghetto on the road, a ghetto on the highway, for the people who used to pass. We check them.

  • I am going to clarify.

  • Mr Werner, several things I don't - I suspect it may be the interpretation rather than the answer, but I don't really understand the expression "we keep security of the company" and I don't know what a get tow on the highway is.

  • So, Mr Witness, what do you mean when you said that you kept security ATCO and FATCO. Could you explain that again? What do you mean?

  • Tell him we were responsible for the security of the company. We have soldiers who are members of NPFL who were working under us, not only I and Mustapha were there alone. Those soldiers will mind the things of the company so that nothing will happen to those things and also we have a gate on the road that is for controlling the people who go and come from Gbarnga.

  • I think we are clear now on the gate. There is still one thing that does not seem to be clear: What do you mean when you said that those soldiers will mind the things of the company. What do you mean?

  • Maybe it is look after, or take care. It is not "remind", but "will mind".

  • We were responsible for the security. We are responsible for their security.

  • You said that concerning the gate, the gate was for controlling the people who go and come from Gbarnga at that time. Who, if anyone, did you see going and coming from Gbarnga?

  • Tell him that at that time people used to come from Sierra Leone and go to Gbarnga who were RUF soldiers. They go there and take their supplies and take it to Sierra Leone. I witnessed that while I was there.

  • When you say that people used to come from Sierra Leone and go to Gbarnga, they were RUF soldiers, who were these RUF soldiers, if you know, at that time?

  • Tell him that the one I saw there who used to come there most of the time that is Sam Bockarie, commonly known as Mosquito. Most of the time he was the one who used to come there with RUF soldiers and go to Gbarnga and when they are coming from Gbarnga our NPFL soldiers used to - I can tell our NPFL soldiers used to guard them and I can tell you some of the names of our NPFL soldiers. They are the ones who used to escort them up to the border of Sierra Leone.

  • Mr Interpreter, did you say guide or guard?

  • I said they are the ones that guard them.

  • What do you mean when you said they are the ones who guard them?

  • They are the ones that used to escort them, our NPFL soldiers.

  • When you said "them", who are them? "Escort them", who were they escorting?

  • Tell them this was - if I can remember, this was more than three times that I witnessed when Momoh Jibba escorted - to escort these RUF soldiers to Sierra Leone. I can remember General Yeaten also escorted Mosquito up to Sierra Leone border.

  • Just wait there, Mr Witness. So, Momoh Jibba was already spelt as well as General Yeaten.

    Now, Mr Witness, you said as well that the RUF soldiers used to take their supplies from Gbarnga; which supplies are you talking about?

  • Tell him I mean arms and ammunitions.

  • How did you know that at that time?

  • Tell him at that time when they are coming from Gbarnga they communicate with us because we had a communication set at that time to inform us that RUF soldiers are coming and they are going.

  • Mr Witness, pause there. When you say "they came", "they communicated with us", who are you talking about?

  • That is Mansion Ground at Gbarnga. NPFL soldiers used to communicate with us.

  • Mr Witness, you said that you saw RUF soldiers and you said that you saw Sam Bockarie, Mosquito. What do you mean when you say Sam Bockarie, Mosquito?

  • Tell him his name is Sam Bockarie, commonly known as Mosquito and also on one occasion Sankoh himself was among the delegates that went to Gbarnga during my stay there. On this occasion he himself came with them to Gbarnga and when they were going home he came with them, Foday Sankoh himself. They passed us at Lofa and went to Sierra Leone.

  • And where did you see Foday Sankoh?

  • I said when I was at Lofa, during my TDY at Lofa.

  • You said that they transported arms and ammunition from Gbarnga. How did they transport arms and ammunition from Gbarnga at that time?

  • No, I said they used to take arms and ammunition from Gbarnga and take it to Sierra Leone, RUF soldiers.

  • How did they do that? How did they take the arms and ammunition from Gbarnga to Sierra Leone?

  • Tell him that they used to put them in a vehicle, in a double cabin pick up, and on many occasions they used to cover them.

  • Sorry, Mr Witness, what do you mean when you say they used to cover them?

  • They used to cover it for civilians, so that the civilians would not see them. [Microphone not activated] problem, but nothing was hidden from us.

  • If you know, which route did they take when they took this arms and ammunition from Gbarnga to Sierra Leone?

  • Tell him they used Lofa main road that came from Lofa going to Boya, the highway.

  • Mr Witness, you said they used Lofa main road coming from Lofa going to Boya? What is Boya?

  • Voinjama going to Foya.

  • So I will try to clarify that. From Gbarnga, if you know, where did they go?

  • I said when they come from Gbarnga they used to go through Zorzor to Voinjama going to Sierra Leone.

  • Your Honours, the only location which was not spelt, as far as I know, was Voinjama which would be V-O-I-N-J-A-M-A:

  • Now, Mr Witness, during --

  • Your Honours, some of the names of the towns were left out by the interpreter.

  • Do you mean during an answer, or do you mean during a question?

  • During the answer from the witness.

    PRESIDING JUDGE:

  • Yes, the last answer.

  • I will ask the witness to repeat the answer and let us have it correctly interpreted.

    Mr Witness, the interpreter says he omitted some place names, names of towns, in your last answer. Can you please repeat your answer.

  • I said when they came from Gbarnga, on the highway, they came to Zorzor and on that same highway they continued, they went to Voinjama and using that same highway they went to Foya. From there they went to the Sierra Leone border.

  • Thank you. Please proceed, Mr Werner.

  • Now, Mr Witness, before you said that these arms and ammunition were taken to Sierra Leone by these RUF. How do you know that?

  • Tell him that the people who used to come and collect the arms and ammunitions are RUF people and those people cannot take their supply to NPFL soldiers because at that time in Lofa there was no fighting, so who are they going to give the supply except taking it to Sierra Leone?

  • Thank you, Mr Witness. Now, again, how long did you stay in this TDY assignment in Zorzor with Mustapha Jallow?

  • Tell him on my that occasion I spent three months there.

  • What, if anything, happened after that, Mr Witness?

  • After that I returned back to my assignment at Cobra Base.

  • How long did you stay in this assignment at Cobra Base?

  • Tell him that upon my return in 1992, after my TDY in - 2 February. I was staying at Cobra Base. I had no TDY until 19 - at the end of 1993.

  • In 1993 what, if anything, happened in Lofa County?

  • Tell him that in - at around the end of 1993, I can say in the month of December, I returned back there. This went up to 1994 then the TDY I went there for. At that time General Mustapha Jallow was assigned for the operation because Charles wanted to do an operation, but he doesn't want the international community to know that he was the one doing the operation.

  • Pause there. You said that Mustapha Jallow was assigned for that operation, which operation are you talking about?

  • Tell him this was LDF operation.

  • And what does LDF stand for, Mr Witness?

  • That is Lofa Defence Force.

  • Just pause there. Then you said that Mustapha Jallow was assigned for the operation because Charles wanted to do an operation. Who is Charles?

  • I said Charles Taylor who is sitting down there.

  • Now, Mr Witness, I do not think you answered my question before you answer. I asked you: Before you went on any further TDY, in 1993, if you know, what, if anything, happened in Lofa County?

  • Tell him yes, ULIMO attack Lofa, ULIMO-K, Alhaji Kromah.

  • Pause there, Mr Witness. What is ULIMO-K?

  • ULIMO-K is under Alhaji Kromah because there were two ULIMOs: One was called ULIMO-J which was under the command of Roosevelt Johnson, but this one is ULIMO-K which was under the command of Alhaji Kromah.

  • Just pause there, Mr Witness. I will come to the spelling in one second, but just to clarify something before: You talked about ULIMO-K, could you tell us what was the other faction you spoke about?

  • That is ULIMO-J.

  • So Roosevelt Johnson would be the normal spelling and Alhaji Kromah, A-L-H-A-J-I, Kromah K-O-R-O-M-A:

  • I asked you what was ULIMO and you explained that ULIMO-K was under Alhaji Kromah and ULIMO-J was under Roosevelt Johnson, but could you explain to the Court?

  • These were the same groups, but they had - the two leaders had a problem, Alhaji Kromah and Roosevelt Johnson, then the group became two.

  • Pause, please, Mr Witness. When you said that ULIMO attacked Lofa, what happened, if anything, when ULIMO attacked Lofa?

  • When ULIMO attacked Lofa, at that time that was when Mustapha was there.

  • When was that?

  • If I can remember, this was around - at the end of 1992, around the end of 1992, around the end of the year.

  • You said that at the time ULIMO attacked Lofa, Mustapha was there. Who are you talking about?

  • I am referring to Mustapha Jallow, General Mustapha Jallow, under whose assignment I was at Lofa.

  • And what, if anything, happened to General Mustapha Jallow when ULIMO attacked Lofa at the end of 1992?

  • Tell him yes, Mustapha's supply line was disconnected because he was taken from Zorzor and pushed him to Voinjama. He was pushed from Voinjama, pushed to around Foya, to around Kolahun.

  • Pause there, Mr Witness. So, you said - when you say Mustapha was disconnected, are you talking about Mustapha Jallow?

  • Yes, I am referring to Mustapha Jallow.

  • You said that "he was taken from" and we could not understand what you said. He was taken from where?

  • When he was taken from Zorzor he ran to Voinjama.

  • Please, Mr Witness, what do you mean when you say he was taken from Zorzor? What do you mean?

  • I said during that war they attacked Zorzor and there was fighting there, so he moved from there and went to Voinjama.

  • Who attacked Zorzor?

  • That ULIMO-K. ULIMO, Alhaji Kromah.

  • Thank you. Then what happened, if anything, when he moved to Voinjama?

  • Tell him that he was attacked at Voinjama, this ULIMO-K. He was driven out of that to Foya. He was pushed out of Voinjama to Foya and that was the time his supply line was cut off between him and Gbarnga.

  • When you say that he was driven off to Foya who are you talking about?

  • I am referring to Mustapha. He moved from Voinjama and went to Foya and he was going towards Kolahun.

  • Just pause, Mr Witness. Kolahun, your Honours, is K-O-L-A-H-U-N:

  • You said that his supply line was cut off between him and Gbarnga, which supply line are you talking about?

  • Tell him that at that time he has no access to come to Gbarnga because it is the same route that they use, which was occupied.

  • When you say he had no access to come to Gbarnga, who are you talking about?

  • I am referring to Mustapha Jallow.

  • You said that he was driven off to Foya. What, if anything, happened when he was driven off to Foya?

  • Tell him at that time an NPFL soldier was assigned around that area who is a young soldier, Tamba, commonly known as Jungle. He was the commander of that area, but he is a junior commander, not a special force member.

  • Pause there, Mr Witness. Jungle would be the name. Then you said that he was the commander, Jungle was the commander of that area, which area are you talking about?

  • Foya District. Foya is a district. This goes to around Kolahun. Around that district he was their commander.

  • I asked you what, if anything, happened to Mustapha Jallow when he was pushed to Foya, so what happened to him, to Mustapha Jallow?

  • Tell him that Mustapha and Tamba did not cope because at that time Tamba has a grudge against Mustapha, until he wanted to kill Mustapha.

  • Pause there. I just noted that I didn't spell Tamba which would be T-A-M-B-A:

  • What do you mean when you said that Mustapha and Tamba did not cope because at that time Tamba has a grudge against Mustapha? What do you mean when you say that?

  • Tell him these junior commanders, commanders, some time had a grudge with the special forces.

  • Pause there, Mr Witness. When you said the junior commanders, what do you mean?

  • This I told you earlier, those of us who came from Libya, who came with Charles Taylor from Libya to Liberia, those are the ones referred to as special forces. The ones we met at Liberia, the young soldiers we recruited in Liberia were called junior commandos.

  • Can we be clear, looking at the transcript, are we talking about junior commandos? It has come out as junior commanders in the transcript. I am sorry to interrupt my learned friend, but it is important to get the names right.

  • Mr Witness, did you you say junior commanders, or did you say junior commandos?

  • Junior commandos. It was because they were many you can not say junior commando, you always say junior commandos with an "s" which means it was plural.

  • Mr Werner, I also don't understand where the witness said the junior commandos had a grudge with the special forces, or something.

  • I will come back to that:

  • So you you said that the junior commandos had a grudge against the special forces.

  • With the special forces. What did you mean when you said that?

  • Tell him because Mustapha was fought against and he moved from his position, this one thought that because Mustapha has now reached his own area Mustapha was not going to take his command and Mustapha also thought that he shouldn't take command from a younger one, a junior soldier. So, that was the problem that erupted between them because he always thought that he was within his own control area, so that was not Mustapha's own control area, so Mustapha was supposed to take command from him.

  • We will come back to that, but my question was not about Mustapha Jallow and Tamba Jungle, the question was: You said that the junior commandos had a grudge with the special forces; when you said that, what did you mean?

  • That is what I have said. I said - I don't know if you didn't understand what I said, but even that man who is sitting over there, he knows that, Mr Charles Taylor. At the time the junior commandos had their ranks, those of us who were the special forces were above them and there were some amongst us who had higher ranks, but because those of us who were special forces were the elite forces we were not supposed to take any command from the junior commandos, so this was the grudge that erupted.

  • Thank you, Mr Witness. Now, you explained that Mustapha reached his own area and Mustapha was not going to take his command. So, first, are you talking about Mustapha Jallow?

  • Yes, I am referring to Mustapha Jallow.

  • And what do you mean when you say that Mustapha reached his own area and Mustapha was not going to take his command? What did you mean?

  • I said since Mustapha has reached his command area, Faya Tamba, so he thought Mustapha supposed to take his commands. I mean Faya Tamba.

  • So what, if anything, happened at that time between Mustapha Jallow and - sorry, Mr Witness, first about that: Now you say "I mean Faya Tamba", who is Faya Tamba?

  • Faya Tamba commonly known as Jungle. He is an NPFL soldier who was fighting under NPFL.

  • When you say Faya Tamba, was Faya his first name?

  • Yes, his first name is Faya.

  • And Faya would be F-A-Y-A, Tamba:

  • So, Mr Witness, what, if anything, happened between Faya Tamba, also known as Jungle, and Mustapha Jallow at Foya at that time?

  • Tell him that this was the grudge between Mustapha and Faya until we heard from the radio, from ULIMO, that Mustapha was ambushed and killed, but that was not true. Then we, the Gambians who were at Gbarnga at that time, was a concern - Mustapha's affairs was a concern to us.

  • Just pause there. You said that you heard from the radio, from ULIMO, that Mustapha was ambushed and killed. How did you learn anything from ULIMO?

  • Tell him they said it over Focus on Africa which we were listening.

  • ULIMO spokesman say it over Focus on Africa.

  • He said Mustapha Jallow was ambushed and killed.

  • You said Focus on Africa. What is Focus on Africa, Mr Witness?

  • Tell him it is a BBC programme that they used to do at 5 o'clock.

  • Now, what, if anything, happened when you learnt on the BBC that Mustapha Jallow had been killed?

  • I said these had been we, the Gambians', concern until we had to gather together to have a meeting and inform Jackson who was Charles Taylor's spokesman.

  • Sorry, your Honours, not spokesman. It was Charles Taylor's aide-de-camp.

  • Please wait. I believe the last word was aide-de-camp:

  • When you said that you had a meeting and informed Jackson, was it the same Jackson you told us about on Friday, General Jackson?

  • Yes, I am referring to the same Jackson, commonly known as Jokuday Nyassi, a Gambian.

  • We had the spelling already:

  • So what, if anything, happened, Mr Witness, when you gathered and had a meeting and informed Jackson?

  • Jackson informed Charles Taylor. When he informed Charles - when he inform him, when he inform Charles Taylor then Jackson told us that Charles Taylor said that he communicated with RUF soldiers in Sierra Leone, so that they can give reinforcement to Mustapha to come to Gbarnga.

  • And what, if anything, happened after that, Mr Witness?

  • After that RUF soldiers who first came to give Mustapha reinforcement to come to Gbarnga, to open the road for him to Gbarnga.

  • How did you know that RUF soldiers came to give Mustapha reinforcement to come to Gbarnga?

  • Tell him that when the day that communication was done, when Jackson was doing the communication, we went to Gbarnga. He also responded that the old man told him that he has informed the RUF soldiers to give reinforcement to Mustapha Jallow to come to Gbarnga.

  • Mr Werner, I am a little confused. I understood this meeting followed the death of Mustapha Jallow and we are now having Mustapha Jallow reinforced.

  • Your Honour, I believe that he said the alleged death, but I will try to --

  • You say the alleged death, we are still not clear if it is alleged or actual.

  • I said that was not true, he was not dead. Mustapha was not killed.

  • Now I understand. We could have had that a little earlier.

  • Now, Mr Witness, you said that RUF soldiers came to give Mustapha reinforcement. If you know, who came to give Mustapha reinforcement?

  • Tell him that the first person who came was the commander of RUF. He is called General Pa Jean. He was the one who led the RUF soldiers to reinforce Mustapha Jallow to Gbarnga.

  • Your Honours, Pa Jean would be J-E-A-N.

  • Mr Werner, that was Pa Jean not Jean. Is that P-A as a different word?

  • Yes, Pa, sorry, P-A, and Jean would be J-E-A-N:

  • Mr Witness, what, if anything, happened when Pa Jean led RUF soldiers to reinforce Mustapha Jallow?

  • Tell him that when Pa Jean led these soldiers to reinforce Mustapha they came by the - they came by the bush to Gbarnga, but on their way Pa Jean died, but when they were reaching Waterside, between Bong County and Lofa, at that time Morris Kallon, Morris Kallon was in charge of RUF soldiers, but I will let you - I will clear one thing to you.

  • Just pause there, Mr Witness. Let me ask you a question before that. You said that these soldiers who came to reinforce, they came by the bush to Gbarnga?

  • How did they come to Gbarnga?

  • Tell him Lofa had a big forest so they used the bush path. They did not use the highway. They used the bush road. Then when they entered through the forest they came to Belle Forest area.

  • Pause there, Mr Witness. I heard that and it was not interpreted, but I heard you talked about Kumba?

  • Forest.

  • What did you say about Kumba forest?

  • I said Mustapha came by the bush path, according to what he explained to us. He said that he came through Kumba forest. It is a thick forest. He came through that forest going through Belle Forest, going through St Paul Waterside which was the border between Gbarnga and Lofa. On his way he came, he came with a lot of civilians which number was more than 2,000.

  • [Microphone not activated] could I ask the witness to be given exhibit P-26 which is the map of Liberia. Maybe that could help. While that is done I will try to spell, so Kumba Forest will be K-U-M-B-A Forest and Belle Forest will be B-E-L-L-E. Earlier the witness spoke about Bong County which will be B-O-N-G and I believe that he gave the name - St Paul would be the correct spelling:

  • Please, Mr Witness, can you indicate the route taken from Foya by the RUF and Mustapha Jallow to Gbarnga?

  • Give me some minutes. If you look at the map, when you look at the map you will see Kolahun on the map. From Kolahun tell him that this - the forest on the map were not marked. I don't see the name of Kumba Forest, but I saw a village whose name is Belle Yella. Have you seen that on the map? From Kolahun he went through that bush path going to around Belle where you have Belle Forest. From Belle Forest I don't know whether you can see - you can see the mark of St Paul River under Belle Yella. This is the water's way. Between these two you have the border of Bong County and Lofa. There was a bridge which you cross to enter and go to Gorlu, going to Zorzor, going to Voinjama. From this border between Bong County and Lofa, at the border there was a bridge. At that bridge the water was called St Paul, or St John River. This was where they came to.

  • And then where did they go?

  • Tell him that when they reached at this waterside, that was the time Mustapha reported to Gbarnga and RUF's commander, commonly called Morris Kallon.

  • Now, some names were spelt. Belle Yella would be B-E-L-L-E and then the second word Yella, Y-E-L-L-A. Another name was indicated by the witness on the map, Gorlu, which should be G-O-R-L-U.

  • Mr Werner, did the witness say that Mustapha reported to Morris Kallon? Is that what he said?

  • I will clarify, your Honour.

  • Tell him that --

  • Did you say that Mustapha reported to Morris Kallon?

  • No, I said when they reach at St Paul Waterside, between the border of Bong County and Lofa, with soldiers and civilians, that was the time Mustapha and Morris Kallon came to Gbarnga to report at the Mansion Ground of Charles Taylor.

  • You spoke about Morris Kallon. Again, who was Morris Kallon?

  • Morris Kallon - tell him when Pa Jean died in the bush this Morris Kallon took the command of RUF soldiers called Gbarnga. He took the command.

  • When you said that Morris Kallon took the command of RUF soldiers called Gbarnga, what did you mean?

  • Pa Jean, General Pa Jean was the one who led them from Sierra Leone to come to Mustapha, but on their way Pa Jean died on the road, on the way. Pa Jean died on the way if you could remember. When Pa Jean died then Morris Kallon took over the command, the commander of RUF soldiers.

  • Thank you, Mr Witness. Now, you said that they reached at St Paul Waterside, on the border of Bong County and Lofa County, with soldiers and civilians. Who were these civilians, Mr Witness?

  • Tell him the civilians, among them there were children, women and men. Lofa civilians.

  • Why did they travel with the RUF, if you know?

  • Tell him that these were the people - when they attacked Zorzor and Voinjama, the civilians who fled went with Mustapha. It is the same civilians.

  • Now, what, if anything, happened after that?

  • Tell him that when Mustapha reported at Gbarnga Charles Taylor told him to go and rest for a while, so while he was resting Charles Taylor made an initiation to attack ULIMO because at that time they had a discussion - I don't know whether Ghana - for the ceasefire.

  • Who had a discussion at that time for the ceasefire?

  • Tell him Charles Taylor and Alhaji Kromah, the warring factions, had a meeting. I forgot the country, whether Ghana or Mali.

  • Mr Werner, I don't understand. What is an initiation to attack? Charles Taylor made an initiation to attack ULIMO, what is that?

  • I will try to clarify:

  • Mr Witness, you appear to have said that Charles Taylor made an initiation to attack ULIMO. What did you mean when you said that?

  • This is what I am saying: After ULIMO had attacked, but he must plan it because if he did not plan they will say he has broken the agreement of ceasefire. This was the time he formed a group called LDF.

  • So you said after ULIMO had attacked "he must plan it", who are you talking about?

  • Can you repeat your question? That is not clear to me because I am not talking about ULIMO.

  • The answer you gave, Mr Witness, as it appears on the screen was that "After ULIMO had attacked he must plan it because if he did not plan they will say he has broken the agreement of ceasefire." Who are you talking about?

  • I said ULIMO-K were responsible for Lofa and during their discussion they had a ceasefire agreement, the discussion between Charles Taylor and Alhaji Kromah, but Charles Taylor did not want Lofa to be under the responsibility of ULIMO. I said that was the time he decided to form a group that will attack ULIMO so that his name would not be mentioned. This was the time he formed LDF. Charles Taylor formed LDF.

  • What happened when Charles Taylor formed LDF?

  • Do we know what LDF is, or stands for?

  • He said that, your Honour, Lofa Defence Force:

  • So, Mr Witness, what happened when Charles Taylor formed the LDF?

  • When he formed LDF he made --

  • Your Honours, could the witness be asked to repeat the name of the man he has --

  • Mr Witness, pause just a moment.

  • Could you repeat your answer, Mr Witness?

  • Tell him that when he formed LDF he selected one man called Yakbawalo to be the political leader of LDF, the spokesman who speaks on behalf of LDF over the radio. Mustapha Jallow was the military leader to be responsible for the operation.

  • Pause there. Can you repeat the name of the political leader of the LDF appointed by Charles Taylor?

  • His name is Yakbawalo. It is a normal name.

  • Your Honours, Yakbawalo would be Y-A-K-B-A-W-A-L-O:

  • What happened, Mr Witness, after LDF was formed?

  • That was the time Mustapha gathered his NPFL soldiers together and Morris Kallon, who came with RUF soldiers that are called vanguards.

  • When you said that Morris Kallon came with RUF soldiers that are called vanguards, what do you mean when you said vanguards?

  • Vanguards, any soldier who was under RUF from Sierra Leone who were in the NPFL territory were referred to as vanguards. That is the name they are referred to.

  • And what, if anything, happened when Mustapha gathered his soldiers and Morris Kallon came with the vanguards?

  • These two groups came, joined together, NPFL and the vanguard group joined together with the RUF soldiers who were called - who were known as Lofa Defence Force. This was the time Lofa started the attack. LDF started attacking ULIMO-K.

  • Thank you, Mr Witness. You said that NPFL and the vanguards joined together with RUF soldiers and then you said they were called Lofa Defence Force. What did you mean when you said that?

  • Tell him that I said Morris Kallon and the RUF who - Morris Kallon who came with the RUF soldiers, who were referred to as vanguards, were joined with the Mustapha soldiers, the NPFL. These two groups were named LDF, Lofa Defence Force.

  • Again, Mr Witness, if you can tell us again at that time then who was the military leader, if anybody, of the LDF?

  • Mustapha Jallow was the military leader.

  • How many fighters did the LDF have at that time?

  • I cannot know the number because LDF battalions were too many.

  • And then, if anything, what happened after LDF was formed?

  • I said that was the time LDF started attacking in Lofa.

  • Who did the attack?

  • LDF soldiers who were led by Mustapha.

  • You said they started attacking, where did they start attacking?

  • When they reached Waterside that - from Waterside going to a village before you reach Vona [phon]. Then that area was under the command of NPFL soldiers. NPFL attack started in Gorlu going to Zorzor.

  • So you said that NPFL attacked Gorlu and Zorzor. Who were - when they attacked who were - if anybody, who were at Gorlu and Zorzor at that time?

  • At that time ULIMO-K was responsible of Gorlu.

  • And what, if anything, happened after these attacks?

  • Sorry, he has only answered half of the question. Mr Werner asked him about Gorlu and Zorzor.

  • I will clarify that:

  • You explained that NPFL attacked ULIMO at Gorlu. What, if anything, happened in Zorzor?

  • Tell him, yes, NPFL, Lofa Defence Force driven out ULIMO-K from Zulu [phon] - from Gorlu.

  • Your Honours, could the witness repeat that area please?

  • Mr Witness, can you repeat the last part of your answer? You said that "Lofa Defence Force driven out ULIMO-K from Gorlu", so let us go over that again. What happened at Gorlu, Mr Witness?

  • I said that LDF, when they attacked ULIMO-K at Gorlu they had driven out ULIMO-K from Gorlu and they went to a village called Salaye. This is also a big village.

  • Salaye, S-A-L-A-Y-E:

  • I am sorry to interrupt, but I am having difficulty following this because your original question was what, if anything, happened in Zorzor and since then we have been dealing solely with Gorlu.

  • Mr Witness, my question was about Zorzor. I think we understand what happened at Gorlu. What, if anything, happened in Zorzor?

  • I said the first attack - when ULIMO was occupying up to Gorlu then Zorzor were all occupied by ULIMO, so LDF start fighting Gorlu going towards Zorzor. The first village that they occupied was Gorlu. This was the time they drove ULIMO-K up to Salaye, but later they occupied Salaye also from ULIMO-K. They keep on pushing them up to Zorzor.

  • When you said "they keep on pushing them up to Zorzor", who are you talking about?

  • LDF was pushing ULIMO-K.

  • What, if anything, happened when they pushed ULIMO to Zorzor?

  • Tell him they had been fighting for a long time before they occupied Zorzor. This was the time I had my third assignment under the LDF. When I was joining them, at that time Gorlu was our CP.

  • You said that they were fighting for a long time before they occupied Zorzor and that was the time you had your third assignment. When did that happen?

  • This was in 1994.

  • Who, if anyone, gave you that assignment?

  • Tell him that I was under SSS. My assignment - if I am to be taken for an assignment the paper must come from SSS. They gave the letter to Mustapha because Mustapha told them that he needs somebody to join him because I was somebody that Mustapha trusted, so most of the time when he is asked who he want to join him he used to tell them I.

  • When you talked about Mustapha, who are you talking about?

  • Mustapha Jallow, LDF commander.

  • Mr Witness, I understand that it is a bit painstaking, but it would help us when you refer to Mustapha if you can say his full name. That will be helpful. Now, you said that at the time that you went for this assignment, when you joined, Gorlu at that time was your - and we can not read what you said. What was Gorlu at the time that you joined Mustapha Jallow for this assignment?

  • Tell him that that was our CP, command post.

  • How long did you remain in Lofa County fighting alongside Mustapha Jallow?

  • Tell him that I spent a long time because I spent almost seven to eight months there until we were pushed by ULIMO.

  • Pause there. During that time, during this seven to eight months you spent in this assignment in Lofa County, did you have a rank?

  • Yes, tell him yes. When I was going there for the first time I had the rank of lieutenant colonel, but during my attachment there, by the time I had four months Mustapha came from Gbarnga and told me that I was promoted to a colonel.

  • Which year was that?

  • This was in 1994.

  • Then you said that you spent seven to eight months in Lofa County until you were pushed by ULIMO. What did you mean?

  • Tell him we were pushed by ULIMO. We went up to Bong County.

  • Mr Witness, I just want to go back to one thing you said. You talk about a letter given to you at the time that they told you about your assignment in Lofa. What was this letter?

  • Tell him that when they are sending you for TDY assignment, because I was going to under Mustapha Jallow, he came - he came with the letter from the office of SSS, then the Gbatala. He came to our base and told me that I am now - I am now under him for the TDY assignment because at that time he was given the operation commander, the operation as military commander.

  • My question was about - you spoke about a letter, so were you given a letter?

  • No, I said Mustapha came with the letter to the base. I was not given the letter. Mustapha came with the letter at the base and explained it to me. Normally when those type of letters came it is not that they used to give you the letter personally, but under whose command you are at the administration, they used to take the letter to that administration. It is the administration that call and inform you that you are given assignment so and so, you are supposed to go for that.

  • Did you see this letter?

  • Yes, I read the letter personally.

  • Who wrote that letter?

  • Tell him the undersigned signature on the letter was General Yeaten.

  • Now, Mr Witness, what was the situation in Lofa County at the end of your assignment?

  • Tell him that at that time Lofa's condition was there was a lot of fighting in Lofa at that time between LDF and ULIMO-K.

  • You spoke before about Zorzor. Who, if anyone, was in charge of Zorzor at the end of your assignment?

  • I don't understand. Can you clarify that?

  • You spoke before about different locations in Lofa County and you spoke about Zorzor; which group, if any, was in Zorzor at the end of your seven/eight months of your assignment?

  • Tell him that the time I finished my assignment at Lofa, when ULIMO pushed us up to the border of Lofa and Bong, at that time ULIMO-K occupied Zorzor.

  • And you told us before about a place called Belle Yella, do you remember?

  • Tell him yes, I can remember that.

  • At the end of your assignment, if you know, what was the situation at Belle Yella?

  • Tell him that Belle Yella was under Lofa. It is part of Lofa County, but that area, at that time, in the Belle Forest there was another commander whose command was different from ours. He was under NPFL because at that time we were referred to as LDF, but that commander his name is Mon Ami.

  • Your Honour, Mon Ami is a French name, M-O-N A-M-I:

  • Now, Mr Witness, at that time, at the end of your seven/eight month assignment in Lofa County, what access, if any, were there between NPFL in Liberia and RUF in Sierra Leone at the end of your assignment?

  • Tell him that where we were fighting there was no access by vehicle. There was no access. If there was to be access it has to be by foot.

  • So was there access by foot?

  • Tell him Liberia has a lot of - a lot more footpaths than vehicle. There was a footpath from there to Belle Yella Forest.

  • Pause there. You said, "There was a footpath from there to Belle Yella Forest", from where?

  • Tell him I said a footpath - there are more footpaths in Liberia. There are more footpaths than paths that vehicles can use. Anywhere you want to go through Liberia you can use a footpath. Even where we were at that time we had a footpath which we used up to Mon Ami and that is a long way to go. You can also use a footpath from Belle Yella to Bopolu, to Bopolu.

  • Mr Werner, is Mon Ami a name of a place, or a person?

  • I will clarify that, your Honour:

  • Tell us again, Mr Witness, who or what was Mon Ami?

  • Tell him Mon Ami is an NPFL commander.

  • Mr Witness, was Mon Ami an NPFL commander, is that correct?

  • Yes, tell him he was a soldier of NPFL. He was the one in the forest at that time.

  • Your Honour, I will try to clarify that, but a name was given, which is Bopolu, and it will be B-O-P-O-L-U:

  • So, Mr Witness, you said that there was a bush path from Gbarnga to Belle Yella. Now --

  • Tell him that I said there was a footpath between us to Mon Ami you can use - which you can use from Gorlu to Belle Yella, the footpath, if you are leaving Gbarnga. If you come from Gbarnga there was a road for vehicles from Gbarnga going to Belle Yella, but that - the road for vehicles stops at Belle. It doesn't continue. You can go from Gbarnga - if you come from Gbarnga going to around Monrovia, about 6 to 10 kilometres, there was a village called Phoebe. There is a hospital at that village. That Phoebe has a junction that can be used by vehicles going directly to Belle Yella, up to Belle Forest, but that is where the path for vehicles stop.

  • Mr Witness, pause there one moment. Can I ask the witness to be given again P-26:

  • Mr Witness, just pause one second.

  • I am referring --

  • Pause one second. You said that there was a road going from Gbarnga to Belle Yella, a road which can be used by cars. Now, at the end of your assignment, the seven/eight months assignment with the LDF in Lofa County, was it possible to use that road by car from Gbarnga to Belle Yella?

  • Yes, you can use - you can take a vehicle and go up to there, but then ULIMO did not occupy that forest.

  • Which forest are you talking about from Gbarnga to Belle Yella, which forest are you talking about?

  • That is the forest referred to as Belle Forest.

  • Now, from Belle Yella where you said that Mon Ami had his assignment at that time, he was an NPFL commander, from Belle Yella what access, if any, was there to the Sierra Leonean border?

  • Tell him yes, there was a road, a road used by vehicles. If you look at the map, if you come from Gbarnga, coming towards Gbatala, when you come from Gbarnga about 6 to 8 kilometres, or 10 kilometres, there is a village called Phoebe.

  • Do you know how to spell Phoebe?

  • Phoebe, okay. If I could remember, it is spelt P-H-O-E-B-E. I think that is the spelling. There was a hospital in that village. If you reach that village there is a road used by vehicles going to Belle. This was the - this was Mon Ami's CP, his command post.

  • You said that there was a road from Belle Yella, at that time, from Belle Yella to the Sierra Leonean border. Was it possible to use that road at that time?

  • I said no vehicle can use - the road for vehicles stop at Belle if anyone want to use that road, unless you use the footpath.

  • Footpath from Belle Yella to the Sierra Leonean border?

  • Tell him that is many. Liberia has more footpaths than paths for vehicles.

  • Thank you, Mr Witness. Now, at that time, at the end of your seven/eight months assignment with the LDF in Lofa County, who, if anyone, travelled on these roads from Gbarnga to the Sierra Leonean border?

  • I don't hear you clearly.

  • You told us that there was a car road from Gbarnga to Belle Yella and then you testified that there was a bush path from Belle Yella to the Sierra Leone border and my question is: As far as you know, at that time, at the end of your assignment, who, if anyone, travelled on those roads from Gbarnga to the Sierra Leone border?

  • With respect, the question is still unclear. My learned friend is referring to bush paths and roads. The witness has given his answer, or has asked for an explanation, and Mr Werner has gone back to using the word "roads". Is he talking about car roads, or is he talking about footpaths, or is he talking about both?

  • I will break it down:

  • Mr Witness, you testified that there was a car road from Gbarnga to Belle Yella. At that time, at the end of your assignment, who, if anyone, travelled on that car road from Gbarnga to Belle Yella?

  • Yes, there was a car road. When Mon Ami is coming to Gbarnga he used a vehicle from Belle Yella to Gbarnga by vehicle.

  • And who else, if anybody, was using that car road from Gbarnga to Belle Yella?

  • Tell him that road was used by NPFL soldiers because then there were no civilians in Belle Forest. Anyone you see going there was NPFL soldiers.

  • Then you testified that there was bush path from Belle Yella to the Sierra Leone border. Who, if anyone, used those bush paths at that time?

  • Tell him these footpaths that I am telling were being used only by NPFL soldiers. I said they were used by only NPFL soldiers. No civilian used that footpath.

  • Thank you, Mr Witness. Now, why did these NPFL soldiers, at that time, use this bush path from Belle Yella to the Sierra Leonean border?

  • Tell him that NPFL used that footpath to go to Sierra Leone border because we ourselves - most of the time when we are sending supplies to people, or going to people, we used to take them by foot because at that time we used to supply through footpaths. We do the men reinforcement power by using the footpath because of the difficulties of having vehicles.

  • When you said that "we are sending supplies to people", which people are you talking about?

  • Tell him the supply always - I am always referring to arms and ammunitions.

  • My question was: You said that you were sending supplies to people from Belle Yella, which people are you talking about?

  • I don't say I personally used to supply people. I said NPFL at some places which cannot be accessed by motor vehicles, instead by footpath most of the time. Most of those places, how does NPFL supply those places was by using the footpath.

  • When you said that NPFL supplied those places, where were those places at that time that NPFL supplied?

  • Tell him many - there are many places in Liberia that are accessed by footpath. You cannot access those places by vehicle because you can go by Belle up to Bopolu by foot. You can go from Belle and go up to Lofa Bridge on foot. It is a long distance, but people use on foot.

  • Thank you, Mr Witness. Now, so you explained that at the end of your TDY, of your assignment, the LDF was pushed. Now, where was Mustapha Jallow at that time, at the end of your seven/eight month assignment?

  • Tell him I was together with Mustapha at that time. We were the ones they pushed from Lofa to Bong County. I was together with him.

  • What happened to you after you were pushed?

  • Tell him when we reached Waterside, the border between Lofa and Bong County, ULIMO attacked us at Waterside again and pushed us up to a village called Belle Fanai, a village between - a village around Gbarnga.

  • What was the name of the village again?

  • Belle Fanai. If you look at the map you will see the name.

  • Are you able to help us with a spelling of that name?

  • I think Belle Fanai's name is on the map. Belle Fanai anyway's name is not mentioned, but it is almost 10 or 12 kilometres away from Gbarnga. It is around this area when coming from St Paul Waterside [indicated]. The name is not mentioned on the map.

  • When we adjourn can we have some spellings please? Belle Yella?

  • Belle Yella I think was spelt before, B-E-L-L-E Y-E-L-L-A. I am unable to help you with the last spellings:

  • Mr Witness, are you able to spell that last location you indicated on the map, Belle Fanai?

  • Tell him I will try and see, B-E-L-L-E F-A-N-A-I. Belle Fanai.

  • I think that is an appropriate place to adjourn for the mid-morning break, Mr Werner. Mr Witness, we will now take a half hour mid-morning break and we will resume the Court again at 11.30 [sic]. Please adjourn court.

  • [Break taken at 11.30 am.]

  • [Upon resuming at 12.00 p.m.]

  • I notice a change of appearance at the Defence Bar.

  • Madam President, that is correct. Mr Courtenay Griffiths, Queen's Counsel, is now present, as foreshadowed by me at the beginning of the session this morning.

  • Thank you. We welcome Mr Griffiths back.

    Mr Werner, please proceed.

  • Thank you, Madam President:

  • Mr Witness, this morning you testified being in the first TDY with Mustapha Jallow in Lofa in 1992 when there was no fighting in Lofa County. Do you remember that?

  • You said that - you testified that at that time the RUF took arms and ammunition from Gbarnga to Sierra Leone and that that was their supply line. Do you remember that?

  • Mr Witness, during what time period did the RUF take arms and ammunition from Gbarnga to Sierra Leone through that supply line?

  • Tell him this was early part of 1992.

  • And what, if anything, happened to that supply line later?

  • At that time, when ULIMO occupied Lofa, they cut the supply line.

  • And, if you know, when did that happen?

  • Tell him I cannot give you the exact time, but it was around the end of 1992 when ULIMO took control and cut the supply line.

  • Thank you for that clarification, Mr Witness. Now, this morning you told us as well about an individual called Tamba Faya Jungle. Do you remember?

  • Yes, I can remember that.

  • And you explained to this Court that there was a grudge between Jungle and Mustapha Jallow and then the RUF came from Sierra Leone to escort Mustapha Jallow all the way to Gbarnga. Do you remember that?

  • I can remember that.

  • Now, Mr Witness, what if anything happened to Jungle, Tamba Faya?

  • When Mustapha and RUF soldiers came to reinforce for a raid to Gbarnga, ULIMO came to where Tamba was and pushed him. The reason we heard about Tamba - the last information we heard about Tamba was that he entered Sierra Leone and joined the RUF soldiers to help them fighting. He did not return to Gbarnga.

  • How did you learn about that, Mr Witness?

  • [Microphone not activated] who came, the soldiers, Tamba's soldiers, who were there who joined Mustapha's people. There were others who also followed Mustafa, the route they used. They were the ones who gave us the information about Tamba because he was afraid to come to Gbarnga, just that. They said Tamba said he was afraid to come to Gbarnga because if he - if he comes there they will give information about him to Charles Taylor. There is a likelihood that he can be killed.

  • Mr Witness, how long - if you know, how long did Jungle stay with the RUF in Sierra Leone?

  • When Tamba entered Sierra Leone, I don't know anything about his return to NPFL until I left there in 1996. I went to do the negotiation in the Gambia.

  • Mr Werner, I don't know if you are looking at the record from line 3 through to 16. To me it doesn't make sense at all. Maybe you are satisfied, but it doesn't make sense. This is due to the fact that microphones were not activated, or whatever, but whatever this witness says it doesn't make sense from line 3 onwards for the next ten lines.

  • I will go over that again, your Honours:

  • So, Mr Witness, you said that Tamba said that he was afraid to come to Gbarnga and then if he comes they will give information and that there was a likelihood that he can be killed. So, what did Tamba do at that time?

  • Tell him that when he was pushed by ULIMO, when they pushed Tamba he entered Sierra Leone and joined the RUF soldiers. He was fighting alongside them.

  • Mr Witness, how did you learn about that? Who told you about that, if anyone?

  • Tell him that I said Tamba's soldiers, after when Mustapha left, when ULIMO pushed Tamba, some of his soldiers who wanted to use the footpath that was used --

  • Your Honours, could the witness be asked to repeat the last bit of his statement?

  • Mr Interpreter, I don't know what it is you are trying to say.

  • Your --

  • Just a minute, because your sentence is not logical. I will ask the witness to repeat his answer and please this time interpret it properly.

    Mr Witness, the interpreter has asked if you would repeat your answer. Do you wish to have the question again?

  • [Microphone not activated] said the question you asked was the whereabouts of Tamba when Mustapha left. I think that was the question you were asking.

  • Yes, you answered that question. You answered that question. My question was simply how did you learn about that and if you can give a short answer that will be appreciated. Just how did you learn about the fact that Jungle remained with the RUF, fighting alongside the RUF? How did you learn about that?

  • I said Jungle and the soldiers who were with him, under him, some of them - some of them did not go with Jungle to Sierra Leone. Some of those soldiers came by the footpath that was used by Mustapha. That was the same footpath that they used to come to Gbarnga. I heard from those soldiers that Jungle went to Sierra Leone. He entered Sierra Leone. He has joined - he had joined RUF soldiers and is fighting alongside them.

  • Thank you, Mr Witness. Now, this morning you testified about the LDF and you said that the RUF were with the NPFL in the LDF. Do you remember that?

  • Yes, RUF people were in LDF.

  • Thank you, Mr Witness. You said this morning that they were fighting for seven to eight months during your assignment in Lofa and you explained about that fight in detail. Do you remember that?

  • Tell him I was fighting there six months to eight months.

  • Now, Mr Witness, what did the RUF do as part of the LDF?

  • [Microphone not activated] soldiers, we were together and we were fighting alongside against ULIMO forces.

  • And when you say "we", who are you referring to?

  • I am referring to NPFL soldiers and RUF soldiers who joined together to fight.

  • Now, this morning you said, or you talked about an attack on Gorlu and against Zorzor and you said that NPFL attacked Gorlu and attacked Zorzor. So, what were the RUF doing while the NPFL were attacking Gorlu and Zorzor?

  • Tell him that these RUF soldiers were LDF soldiers. NPFL and RUF joined to form LDF. They are the same.

  • Now to be completely clear, Mr Witness, these LDF - because you talked this morning about a number of fightings and so these LDF soldiers, what weapon did they use, if you know?

  • Tell him we were using AK-47, RPG, GMGs and there was another light weapon called LAR.

  • And do you know what LAR stands for?

  • LAR, light arm rifle.

  • Thank you. Now, if you know, from what sources did the LDF get the arms and ammunitions from?

  • Tell him the start of the war I told you LDF was a group formed by Charles Taylor himself. We used to take our supplies from Gbarnga. We have our arms and ammunitions from that place.

  • Now, if you know, who was issuing the weapons in Gbarnga?

  • Tell him that we used to take the weapons from Charles Taylor's Mansion Ground, from his armourer at his Mansion Ground. If I do not forget the man's name, he is Moses.

  • Thank you, Mr Witness. Now, you told us this morning that the political leader of the LDF was a man called Yakbawalo. Now what, if anything, did you hear Yakbawalo saying publicly about the LDF?

  • Tell him, yes, I heard.

  • What did you hear, Mr Witness?

  • Tell him that Yakbawalo has even spoke in BBC to say that he is the leader of LDF because the Lofa people want their freedom. That was why he led people from Lofa to fight against ULIMO. He said this group is not the same as NPFL group. I personally heard that from BBC. That interview, if I could recall, was done in Guinea.

  • And, Mr Witness, was that true that this group was not the same as NPFL as you heard Yakbawalo saying on the BBC?

  • Tell him that was not true. That was just the coverage for the international world.

  • Now, when did you hear Yakbawalo on the BBC? Can you remember the date?

  • Tell him it was in 1993. I cannot remember the month, but it - he gave the speech in 1993.

  • Now, Mr Witness, what, if anything - during this same time period what, if anything, did you hear Charles Taylor saying publicly about the LDF?

  • To talk about LDF, what?

  • You told us that you heard Yakbawalo talking about the LDF on BBC. My question was what, if anything, did you hear Charles Taylor saying publicly about the LDF?

  • Yes, Charles Taylor himself was interviewed about LDF. He said he doesn't know anything about LDF. He said Lofa people form a group to secure - to protect their county. He has no hand about LDF. That in Charles Taylor's speech when he was interviewed.

  • Just one moment. Now, Mr Witness, I am told that the record is not clear about Moses and so I apologise for that, but I will just come back and ask one question again about Moses. You told us about Moses in Gbarnga. Now, who was Moses again in Gbarnga, if you can remember?

  • Moses was - he was the armoury commander. He was the one responsible for the armoury in Gbarnga. He was the one who used to give the supply for arms and ammunition.

  • Thank you, Mr Witness. Now, this morning you told us that you and Mustapha Jallow, at the end of your assignment with the LDF you retreated. Do you remember that?

  • Tell him I can remember that when ULIMO pushed us, this was in Belle Fanai.

  • We spelt that name already. What happened to the LDF troops at that time, if anything?

  • That was the time Charles Taylor gave an order and said LDF soldiers should withdraw from the front line. He said they handed over themselves to him. What he said over the news, that LDF soldiers have handed themselves over to him because ULIMO pushed them until they entered his territory in Gbarnga. On the ground, he gave us the order to withdraw the LDF soldiers and took them to Gbatala base.

  • So, first you said that you heard that over the news, which news are you talking about?

  • I meant BBC Focus on Africa. When we retreat he gave an interview about the whereabouts of the NPFL soldiers. He said LDF soldiers handed themselves over to him, so he retreated them and now they are - they are at Gbatala, Cobra Base.

  • You said that, "He gave us the order to withdraw the LDF soldiers and took them to Gbatala base." Who was the "he"? Who gave this order?

  • The man is Charles Taylor on the ground. What I was telling you was not true when - what he said over the radio was not true.

  • And when you say, "He gave us the order to withdraw the LDF soldiers to Gbatala base", who are the "us"?

  • That is we the LDF fighters, we the LDF soldiers, because we were the LDF soldiers.

  • Thank you, Mr Witness. Now, you testified about the RUF fighting in Lofa County between that period you were there, your assignment. Now, what, if anything, happened to these RUF fighters?

  • Tell him when we were retreating from Gbatala, Cobra Base, their commander, Morris Kallon, and some other people and Mustapha were in Gbarnga. I and the other soldiers retreated to Cobra Base.

  • When you say, "We were retreating from Gbatala, Cobra Base", where did you mean?

  • I mean we the LDF fighters, among them Sierra Leone - Sierra Leoneans are among. Liberians were also among us.

  • So, you said that Morris Kallon and some other people were in Gbarnga, so what happened to Morris Kallon and the RUF soldiers after that, if anything?

  • Morris Kallon and his - Morris Kallon and his bodyguards were the only ones who were with Mustapha Jallow. Him and the other soldiers, who were members of RUF, and the Liberian soldiers retreated to Gbatala, Cobra Base. Then EMG soldiers took over the front line.

  • When you said EMG soldiers, what are you referring to?

  • EMG soldier, the NPFL soldiers who were known as Executive Mansion soldiers.

  • Thank you, Mr Witness. So, you testified that you and Mustapha Jallow retreated from Lofa County, LDF soldiers retreated from Lofa County, RUF soldiers retreated from Lofa County. Who else, if anybody, retreated from Lofa County at that time?

  • Yes.

  • Can you tell us, Mr Witness?

  • Tell him that when we were retreating from Lofa, when LDF was retreating from Lofa, the civilians we went together were over 5,000. These 5,000 civilians, among them were women, men and children, but the men, the youths, most of them were - most of them boarded a truck and they took them for training.

  • Just pause there, Mr Witness, pause there. Who took them for training?

  • Tell him EMG soldiers came to take them to a base which they said they opened at Ganta, which was known as Cobra 2. They took these civilians to that place for training. The number of people they took there, through my estimation, could be about 2,000.

  • Now, just pause there, Mr Witness. Ganta is spelled G-A-N-T-A:

  • Now, Mr Witness, you said that 5,000 people retreated from Lofa. Why did these people retreat from Lofa at that time?

  • Tell him during the fight the civilians we captured from the villages and in the bush, normally we used to send them back to our CP where they used to stay, civilians. Among them our intelligence we called G2s. Those were responsible for screening them. Whoever is screened to their satisfaction was taken to our CP. That is where these civilians are. These were the people occupying villages from Gorlu to Waterside. When ULIMO was pushing us, we were also retreating. They were also retreating with us. We retreat with them. This is how these civilians came about.

  • Now, Mr Witness, you talked about a G2 and it is not clear on the transcript. Who were these G2s?

  • G2s were also NPFL soldiers, but they were responsible - were responsible for the intelligence. They do screen the civilians.

  • You mentioned Waterside. Where was the waterside in Lofa County, if you can remember?

  • Tell him Waterside was the border between Bong County and Lofa County. There was a bridge.

  • Can you remember the name of the bridge?

  • If I could remember, St Paul. St John, or St Paul.

  • Now, you said that 2,000 civilians were taken for training at a newly opened base called Cobra 2. What, if anything, happened to the civilians?

  • The civilians were there for training before our retreats, about three weeks. ULIMO moved up to Gbarnga and occupied.

  • We will talk about that, Mr Witness. Now, you said that the civilians were there for training. Who, if anyone, was training these civilians at Cobra 2?

  • NPFL soldiers who were under EMG.

  • Thank you. Now, you explained that you retreated from Lofa, so what happened to you after you retreated from fighting in Lofa?

  • I am - these soldiers were staying at Gbatala until ULIMO captured Gbarnga.

  • Okay, so I don't think you answered my question, but that gives me the opportunity to ask you one more question about this training of these 2,000 civilians. You said that they were trained at Cobra 2. What kind of training did they undertake at Cobra 2?

  • Tell him that they had their infantry training so that they could be soldiers to go to the war field.

  • Now, my question, Mr Witness, was about yourself. What, if anything, happened to yourself after the retreat from the battlefield in Lofa County? What did you do after that?

  • Tell him that I was staying at Gbatala, Gbatala, Cobra Base, I and the LDF soldiers, until ULIMO captured Gbarnga. When ULIMO captured Gbarnga we went back and fight Gbarnga so that we can take it from ULIMO.

  • Mr Witness, just pause there. So, you said that ULIMO captured Gbarnga. Now, this morning you testified about the fact that at one point ULIMO split in factions: ULIMO-K and ULIMO-J.

  • Yes.

  • So, if you know, which faction captured Gbarnga?

  • Tell him the ULIMO that took Gbarnga was ULIMO-K.

  • When did that happen?

  • That was 1994, around end of 1994, around September/October.

  • If you know, where was Charles Taylor when that happened?

  • When that was happening Charles Taylor was at Ghana - was in Ghana for a meeting. Most of the leaders of the warring factions were in Ghana for a meeting.

  • And how long were the fighters of ULIMO-K in Gbarnga?

  • Tell him that fighting took us for three or two months before we recaptured Gbarnga from them. That operation we refer to as Operation Envelope.

  • Envelope like the name:

  • The name of that operation is Operation Envelope.

  • Can you explain to this Court how did the recapture of Gbarnga take place?

  • This was in 1999. If I can remember, it was in December that we recaptured from ULIMO in 1994.

  • And where were you during the time Gbarnga was recaptured?

  • At that time I was at Cobra Base, but when we recaptured Gbarnga Charles Taylor called all of us to come to the mansion as - for mansion guard at Gbarnga.

  • When you said that "he called all of us", what do you mean? Who are the "us"?

  • I said Charles Taylor called us, we the Gambians who were at Gbatala base, that we should come and be the mansion guards, because at that time he did not trust his people.

  • Just pause there, Mr Witness. When you said he did not trust his people, who are you talking about?

  • Tell him I say Liberians because he captured - he captured some of them. He captured some of them who he said were on the side of ULIMO. I am referring to Liberians.

  • If you can remember, you said he captured some of them, who did he capture at that time?

  • Tell him his mansion Chief of Staff Cassius Jacobs was captured. He was in custody. I can remember Michael Seboe who was the commander for the Task Force.

  • Just pause there, Mr Witness. So, Cassius Jacobs was spelled on Friday. Michael Seboe, so Michael, current spelling, and Seboe would be S-E-B-O-E:

  • Now, you said that he captured Cassius Jacobs. What, if anything, happened to Cassius Jacobs?

  • Tell him when we recaptured Gbarnga the people I have just mentioned to you were - he killed all of them.

  • Who killed all of them?

  • You told us about - you told us about Cassius Jacobs and Michael Seboe. If you know, who, if anyone - who else, if anyone, was captured after the recapture of Gbarnga?

  • Tell him I can remember six people, but I can remember the name of three of them. They have Liberian names. It was a long time. I have forgotten some names, but I can remember Cassius Jacobs who was then the mansion Chief of Staff, his mansion Chief of Staff. I can remember Michael Seboe who was then the Task Force commander. I can remember Junior Go who was then the Delta Force commander. I can remember the name of these six - these three people, but there were other three people who were with these six, who were with these three commanders.

  • Thank you, Mr Witness, just pause there. Junior go would be Junior, the current name, and Goe G-O-E:

  • Now, what, if anything, happened to Junior Goe?

  • I said these people were all killed.

  • And who killed them?

  • Charles Taylor gave order for them to be killed.

  • And, if you know, why did he give this order?

  • According to what he said, these people connived with ULIMO. That was the reason why they captured Gbarnga.

  • When you say that is the reason why they captured Gbarnga, who are you talking about?

  • Now, you said that you were called with the other Gambians to the EMG in Gbarnga. How long did you stay there?

  • On that - at that time we spent a long time there, but we used to go to Gbatala. Some day when I have - when it is my day off I used to go to Gbatala. We had spent some time at Gbarnga, about three to four months.

  • And what did you do at Gbarnga when you were there for three or four months, if anything?

  • Tell him at that time we used to - we used to guard - we used to guard the Mansion Ground, Charles Taylor's Mansion Ground. At that time our commander was the same Mustapha who was the security commander at the Mansion Ground.

  • When you say Mustapha, are you talking about Mustapha Jallow?

  • Yes, I am referring to Mustapha Jallow. He was then the security commander at the Mansion Ground.

  • Now, this morning you told us about communication between Gbarnga and Lofa during your first TDY, the first time you went, in 1992, in Lofa with Mustapha Jallow. Do you remember that?

  • Yes, I can remember it.

  • When you were at the EMG in 1994, during these few months what, if anything, did you know about the communication capabilities at the EMG?

  • Tell him that at that time the communication was at Mansion Ground, which was the centre - which was the communications centre and, at that time, when we were on our duties most of the time we used to sit in front of the communication house. Sometimes we used to sit in Charles Taylor's bedroom, behind Charles Taylor's bedroom. That is where we used to sit.

  • When you say "we used to sit in front of the communication house", who are you talking about?

  • Tell him I said we the Gambians, who were called to be the mansion special guards. We were the ones who used to sit in front of the house.

  • And what, if anything, did you hear at that time when you used to sit in front of the communication house?

  • Tell him, yes, we used to hear the communication sometimes when they are communicating with RUF, or when they intercept the ULIMO. When they intercept ULIMO communications we used to hear it.

  • When you said they communicated - sometimes they are communicating with RUF, who were communicating with the RUF?

  • I said NPFL. When they are communicating - when NPFL is communicating with RUF, NPFL to NPFL and RUF, when it is intercepted.

  • And how many times did you hear communication between the NPFL and the RUF at that time, during your assignment at the EMG in Gbarnga?

  • I cannot tell you the amount, but it is more than three times.

  • If you can remember, what did you - what did you hear? The first time you heard this communication, what, if anything, did you hear?

  • Tell him that the first time I came to know about this communication, that day Charles Jackson came and talked to the communication man and told him to contact the RUF side and ask him about the situation there. When Jackson told the communication man about that, the communication man then did his communication, but the report he gave to Jackson, I don't know that.

  • And when you said Jackson, are you referring to General Jackson?

  • Yes, I am referring to General Jackson. Charles Taylor's bodyguard, special bodyguard.

  • Now, do you remember the second time you heard a communication between NPFL and RUF at that time?

  • I remember at that place, on that time, Yeaten came to the communication man so that he can communicate the RUF territory to ask him about the situation. The communication man did his communication, but the report he gave to Yeaten I cannot say that truly, because at the time he was telling Yeaten I was not there.

  • You told us about three times you heard communication between the NPFL and the RUF. Can you remember the third time?

  • On the third occasion was General Jackson. I can remember that.

  • And what can you remember?

  • Tell him that this was a normal procedure, I can say, RUF - between RUF and NPFL. NPFL have always - whatever RUF is doing, they must know it, because NPFL recruited RUF. From the start of my evidence I told you that RUF is NPFL's youngsters.

  • Now, Mr Witness, the third time Jackson communicated with the RUF, when did that happen? Which year, if you can remember?

  • Well, in fact he has only mentioned Jackson communicating once before this.

  • My recollection is two times.

  • Two times.

  • He was saying he had overheard communications, or he had been present at communications three times. Once he has mentioned General Jackson, once he has mentioned a man called Yeaten. As I understand it, he has only so far dealt with one prior occasion with General Jackson. If I am wrong, I will be corrected.

  • Wasn't it that the report went to General Yeaten?

  • Yes, the report that he didn't hear. That was the second - he said he heard communications three times. That was his starter. First of all he is asked about General Jackson, he talked about that, then he is asked about an incident with a man he called General Yeaten, he saw him go to ask for a report, but didn't actually see the report, and then we are back to General Jackson. So, if I am correct then it is only two times that he has heard Jackson.

  • I see.

  • That is what I said: Two times.

  • Very well, Mr Werner. You have heard the objection. What have you to say?

  • The objection was that we were told only one time about General Jackson and we were told two times about General Jackson, and I was asking the witness about the second time.

  • The second time, very well.

  • Tell him that - tell him that I said that the communications Jackson did was on two occasions that I was aware of. That of Yeaten was once. These were the three communications that I can remember.

  • Thank you, Mr Witness. Now, the third communication, the second one with Jackson, if you can remember, when did that take place?

  • This was during my attachment at the Mansion Ground while - when I was a bodyguard.

  • Which year was that, if you can remember?

  • This was in 1995.

  • Now, Mr Witness, at that time in 1995, as far as you can remember, who, if anyone, was in Belle Yella?

  • At that time General Mon Ami was at Belle Yella.

  • Is it the same Mon Ami as the one you talked about this morning?

  • Yes, it is the same person.

  • What was he doing in Belle Yella in 1995 in Lofa County?

  • Tell him at that time Mon Ami was in charge of Belle Yella. He was the commander.

  • What, if anything, was he doing there?

  • At that time Mon Ami used to move from Belle Yella going to Belle Forest. He used to go up to Voinjama.

  • Your Honours, the witness maybe could be asked to repeat the last bit of his evidence?

  • Why do you want him to repeat the last bit of his evidence, Mr Interpreter?

  • He has speaking too fast. I did not hear the last bit of his evidence.

  • Mr Witness, the interpreter has found you are speaking too quickly. He has not been able to interpret, so can you repeat the last part of your answer again, please.

  • I said that at that time Mon Ami - Belle was a forest, a big forest. He used to enter in that forest and go to Voinjama. Then ULIMO-K was in Voinjama and interrupt their activities there to enter Belle Forest and come up to Zorzor. He sabotaged that place also and sometimes also he used to put land mines on the road so that when these people are coming in vehicles --

  • What happened when these people were coming in vehicles?

  • He used to - he used to put land mines on the main highway which was used by vehicles.

  • Who used to put land mines along the road, Mr Witness?

  • I said Mon Ami. Mon Ami was the one who used to do that operation.

  • Mr Werner, Who are these people that were coming in the vehicle?

  • I was going to clarify that:

  • Mr Witness, you said that people used to come by vehicle on the road and Mon Ami put land mines. Who were these people who used to come on the road?

  • Tell him ULIMO - main part of Lofa was controlled by ULIMO-K.

  • Now, Mr Witness, in 1995, after the fall and the recapture of Gbarnga, you said that Mon Ami was in Belle Yella and sabotaged missions against the ULIMO-K. Now, what access, if any, at that time was there between Gbarnga and Belle Yella in 1995?

  • I don't understand that part of your statement. Can you repeat it?

  • I will, Mr Witness. In 1995 was it possible to travel from Gbarnga to Belle Yella?

  • People can go from Gbarnga to Belle Yella by vehicle.

  • And for the same period of time, was it possible to travel from Belle Yella to the Sierra Leonean border by bush road?

  • Tell him there was access, but it was a footpath. It cannot be a road by vehicles.

  • Thank you, Mr Witness. Now, in 1995, as far as you know, where was Morris Kallon from the RUF?

  • At that time Morris Kallon was in our NPFL territory in Gbarnga.

  • What, if anything, was he doing there?

  • Tell him at that time Morris Kallon's soldiers, RUF soldiers, who were at Gbatala, we dispersed them from Gbatala. LDF, majority of LDF soldiers went to Statmarin [phon], so at that time Morris Kallon and only four of his bodyguards were at Gbarnga, were with Mustapha in his compound, Mustapha Jallow.

  • Your Honours, the area the interpreter says, "Statmarin", is not correct. The witness said "Task Force Marine".

  • So, Mr Witness, what was Task Force Marine?

  • I said Strike Force Marine, Strike Force Marine.

  • In which case, Mr Werner, then the reply doesn't make any sense at all.

  • I agree:

  • So, Mr Witness, I asked you what happened, if anything, in 1995 to Morris Kallon. Now, you started by saying that RUF soldiers were at Gbatala and were dispersed from Gbatala and then you spoke about LDF soldiers going to Strike Force Marine. Now, after the RUF soldiers were dispersed from Gbatala, where did they go?

  • Tell him that RUF soldiers, Morris Kallon with three to four bodyguards, were at Gbarnga, at Mustapha Jallow in Gbarnga. The RUF soldiers who were at Cobra Base with NPFL soldiers --

  • Your Honours, your Honours, may the witness be asked to repeat that portion of his evidence?

  • Which portion and why do you need it repeated?

  • From Gbarnga, where he started saying from Gbarnga.

  • I didn't get it clear.

  • Mr Witness, can you speak more slowly so that the interpreter can keep up with you, please, and can you repeat what you have just said, starting at the part where you were explaining what was happening in Gbarnga.

  • I said that when we recaptured Gbarnga Morris Kallon, with his bodyguards, almost three to four people, were left in Gbarnga at Mustapha Jallow. The rest of RUF soldiers, who were then at Cobra Base, where we join those RUF soldiers and NPFL soldiers to disperse them to go and take another assignment under the Strike Force Marine.

  • Thank you, Mr Witness.

  • Did the witness say "we joined those RUF soldiers"? What did he say?

  • Mr Witness, who joined those RUF soldiers to disperse them to take these other assignments under the Strike Force Marine?

  • NPFL soldiers, who were at the base with RUF soldiers, were dispersed to go to Strike Marine Forces to take their assignment.

  • Mr Werner, I find the use of the word "disperse" unclear. As I understood "dispersed" used on previous occasions, it means to send them away, to repel them, to spread them out, or something. My understanding is these two organisations, at some point at least, have been working together. Why are one group dispersing the others?

  • Did you understand the question, Mr Witness? Why did you say that they were dispersed to the Strike Force Marine division? Why did you use that word?

  • I did not understand the English word, but what I meant by that is this: We send them on that assignment under the Strike Force Marine.

  • It is clear now. It is not clear now?

  • Thank you for the explanation, Mr Witness. Now I understand what you really meant.

  • Now, Mr Witness, you just spoke about the Strike Force Marine. What was the Strike Force Marine?

  • Tell him that Strike Force Marine is also a group, a soldier group, who were under NPFL.

  • In 1995, if you know, who was - who, if anyone, was the commander of the Strike Force Marine?

  • Tell him that, if I could remember, in 1995 at that time Sobani was the first person to be there. When Sobani was removed from there and taken to --

  • Your Honours, could the witness repeat that area, please?

  • Just pause, Mr Witness. Please go back to the beginning of your answer and say it again slowly.

  • Okay, tell him that when these people went on that assignment, the NPFL and the RUF soldiers, since they went as the Strike Force Marine, at that time General Sobani was the Strike Force Marine's Chief of Staff, but the person who ended up as the Chief of Staff - because when these people went there and the time Sobani left was not a long time - General Fassu was then the - General Fassu was then the Chief of Staff of the Strike Marine.

  • Okay, just pause there, Mr Witness. So, you said that - I will come to the spelling in one second. You said that General Sobani was the first Strike Force Marine Chief of Staff - Sobani would be S-O-B-A-N-I - and then you said that people were not there for a long time when Sobani left and General Fassu was there. So, we have two spellings for Fassu: F-A-S-U-O, or also spelt F-A-S-S-U. Now, I heard you talking as well and I am not sure it has been transcribed in LiveNote. I heard you say something about Jack the Rebel. Did you mention Jack the Rebel as well?

  • Yes, I have mentioned Jack the Rebel. Jack the Rebel.

  • Now, who was Jack the Rebel?

  • Tell him that Jack the Rebel was a Liberian. He was the first commander of the Strike Force Marine before Sobani took over as mansion Chief of Staff. This was when Chief Sobani became Strike Force Marine's Chief of Staff.

  • So, Jack the Rebel was Chief of Staff before Sobani, is that correct?

  • And Fassu took over from Sobani, is that correct?

  • Yes, that was how it happens.

  • Now, Jack the Rebel, what was the nationality of Jack the Rebel?

  • Jack the Rebel I am referring to was a Liberian.

  • Now, who, if anyone else, do you know by the name of Jack the Rebel?

  • [Microphone not activated] that original Jack the Rebel was a Gambian, a member of SOFA group, and he was in - he was among NPFL soldiers, the SOFA group, who joined NPFL.

  • Do you know if original Jack the Rebel, Gambian, had a Gambian name?

  • Tell him right now I cannot remember, until I recall, but I cannot remember Jack the Rebel's name because even at home he was known as Jack the Rebel and this was the name that people used to call him.

  • Thank you, Mr Witness. Now, talking about Liberian Jack the Rebel, the first Strike Force Marine division Chief of Staff, where was he in 1993, if you can remember?

  • In the year 1993 he was the Strike Force Marine commander, but he replaced Nixon Gaye. This Nixon Gaye was the original Strike Force Marine commander.

  • Just pause there. Nixon Gaye, so Nixon N-I-X-O-N and Gaye G-A-Y-E:

  • When was Nixon Gaye the Strike Force Marine Chief of Staff?

  • When I was going to Gbatala base, 1992, I found that Nixon Gaye was the Strike Force Marine's commander until 1990 - I think at the beginning of 1993, if I could recall, this Nixon Gaye was killed by Charles Taylor. Then he was replaced by Jack the Rebel as the commander for the Strike Force Marine.

  • And when was Nixon Gaye killed by Charles Taylor?

  • It could be in - at the beginning of 1993.

  • And why was he killed by Charles Taylor?

  • Tell him that whoever was killed in Liberia at that time, whoever was killed in Liberia by Charles Taylor at that time, they used to say that he connived with the enemy.

  • Who used to say that?

  • We the NPFL soldiers, that is what we used to hear. They said he connived with the enemy.

  • But who used to say that?

  • I said whoever was killed that is the reason they used to give. This was what we used to hear: That Mr So was killed because he - because he connived with Mr So.

  • And you said that "that is the reason they used to give", who used to give that reason, Mr Witness?

  • Mostly I say we, the NPFL soldiers, that is what we used to hear, but most of the time these executions, SSS used to do it, General Yeaten.

  • And how did you know that?

  • Tell him that this execution in most of the time used to be done by General Yeaten. I know that.

  • And how do you know that, Mr Witness?

  • Tell him that General Yeaten arrested Nixon Gaye and took him away. When he was taken away nobody saw him again.

  • Now, Mr Witness, you said that Nixon Gaye was the Strike Force Marine division Chief of Staff in 1992/1993. Where was he working at that time?

  • Tell him that Strike Force Marine base was at Kakata, behind Kakata rubber plant. They were based there. Strike Force Marine was based at Kakata, behind Kakata rubber plantation. That was where the Strike Force Marine's camp was.

  • Your Honour, Kakata would be K-A-K-A-T-A:

  • Now, what, if anything, did you hear at that time in 1992/1993 about the Strike Force Marine division?

  • Strike Force Marine, what I told you about they are members - they are soldiers of NPFL and I know that they are people who used to do dirty operation.

  • And I believe the witness said "dirty operations". It is "detailed operations" here. Did you say "dirty operations", Mr Witness?

  • Yes, I said dirty operation.

  • What do you mean when you said that Strike Force Marine division used to do dirty operations? What do you mean?

  • Tell him that - tell him that their motto was that maximum death and destruction at a minimum time. This is the motto of Strike Force Marine.

  • And how did you learn about that?

  • Tell him that I said that is their motto. Even the T-shirts that they wear, it is what is written on those T-shirts. This was their motto.

  • And what, if anything, did they do at that time in 1992/1993?

  • Whatever dirty thing you know to be done during the fighting, these people used to do it, even eating people. Among them there were cannibals.

  • Now, when you say "whatever dirty thing you know", what were you talking about?

  • I said that there is no dirty thing that could be more than eating human flesh.

  • And who were eating human flesh, Mr Witness?

  • Tell him that these Strike Force Marine members, majority of them eat human flesh.

  • How did you know about that?

  • Tell him that I said I was a soldier in NPFL. There was nothing that was going on under NPFL soldiers that I don't know.

  • Mr Witness, you said that the Strike Force Marine division was based in Kakata and as far as I understand your evidence you were never based at Kakata, so how did you know about what the Strike Force Marine division members were doing?

  • Tell him that these people used to go and take an assignment if Charles Taylor wanted to clear something quickly. If something happens and Charles Taylor want to clear - it clear quickly, mostly he send these people on that mission. These people are also - these people are also people that we train at our base. They come there to take their advanced commando training. We used to sit with them and chat. What - they used to tell us what they do. That is not something hidden from us. Even sometimes there was a time in 1993 a report came - a report came from Kakata to Mansion Ground, where Charles Taylor was, to inform him that Strike Force Marine are disturbing the civilians around that area. They attack people and take them to the bush where they were and those people will never come back to their homes. What I am saying, Charles Taylor himself, this Charles Taylor who is sitting down, knows about it.

  • Now, Mr Witness, you said that if Charles Taylor wanted to clear something quickly he would call them. What did you mean when you said if he wanted to clear something quickly?

  • That is when something happens at a place that if an enemy enters at a place, or they suspect at a place, they don't trust the place, these were the people that they sent to that place in most of the time.

  • They send them there to do what?

  • Tell him that these people have no sympathy. Wherever they go to, they had no choice.

  • So, what do you mean when you say they have no sympathy?

  • When they enter a place they have no choice. I told you their motto, what their motto means.

  • So, what do they do when they enter a place then?

  • These people do not have a choice for any civilian, or any other person. They kill until they know they want what they wanted, until their mission is accomplished.

  • Mr Witness, do you mean they do not give people a choice when they enter - when they enter a place they don't discriminate? Is that what you mean?

  • They have no choice. They kill indiscriminately. No elder, no child, no man, no woman.

  • Why do you say they didn't have any choice?

  • I don't think you hear what I am saying. I said these people have no choice. Wherever they enter, maximum death and destruction is what they do. That is their motto.

  • Thank you, Mr Witness.

  • Mr Werner, I note the time is seven minutes to.

  • It is a convenient time, your Honours.

  • Very good. Mr Witness, we will now take the lunchtime adjournment. We will resume at 2.30. Please adjourn Court until 2.30.

  • [Lunch break taken at 1.30 p.m.]

  • [Upon resuming at 2.30 p.m.]

  • Mr Werner, please proceed.

  • Thank you, Madam President.

  • Good afternoon, Mr Witness. Mr Witness, good afternoon.

  • Mr Witness, this morning you testified about the fact that when you retreated in 1994 from Lofa County civilians were captured from villages near the bush. Do you remember saying that?

  • Yes.

  • And you testified about the fact that there were about 5,000 civilians and they were taken to your CP in Gorlu. Do you remember saying that?

  • I said more than 5,000 people.

  • And do you remember saying that they were taken to your CP?

  • And later you said that these civilians which you retreated with, you and the NPFL to Gbarnga. Do you remember that?

  • Now, Mr Witness, these more than 5,000 civilians who retreated from Gorlu to Gbarnga, did they have a choice to come with you to Gbarnga?

  • What type of choice, to come back to who?

  • From Gorlu, the CP where they were taken, then you said that they retreated to Gbarnga. Now did this more than 5,000 civilians have a choice when they retreated from Gorlu to Gbarnga?