The transcripts of the trial of Charles Taylor, former President of Liberia. More…

  • Good morning, Mr Witness.

  • Good morning, sir.

  • Before we move forward I would like to clarify a few matters which arose from your testimony of yesterday and the first one - and I will be referring to the transcript of yesterday, page 10987, line 18 to 23. You told us, Mr Witness, yesterday that Mohamed Tarawalli left the ground and went to Guinea and that at that time Foday Sankoh was not in Sierra Leone. So, Mr Witness, after Mohamed Tarawalli left the ground, who, if anyone, became in charge of the RUF on the ground?

  • It was Sam Bockarie.

  • Now, yesterday you gave evidence about a 40 barreled weapon and I will be referring to the transcript of yesterday, page 10993, lines 1 to 6, and you said that engineers came from Liberia to repair that weapon. Now, Mr Witness, to your knowledge, from what group did these engineers come?

  • They were from Charles Taylor's government.

  • Do you remember if these engineers belonged to any group?

  • Well, at that time I think the NPFL - it was the Liberian government headed by Charles Taylor, because it was around 2000, I don't think NPFL was in existence any more. It been transformed into a government.

  • Two lines down you said that the RUF would have used it against the Government of Sierra Leone and you said that that was the plan. Now, how did you know that that was the plan?

  • Because when the engineers came to repair the weapon, if they were successful in doing that the RUF would have used it to launch an offensive against the Government of Sierra Leone. That was the plan. That was why the weapon was being repaired.

  • But how did you know that that was the plan?

  • Because the weapon was at the riverside, Manowa crossing point. I had said before that it was a crossing point, so when we would cross we would enter to where they would repair the weapon. So I too went there and with some - and met some --

  • Your Honours, can the witness slow down and repeat.

  • Just a moment, Mr Witness. You are going a little too quickly for the interpreters. Please speak a little slower and pick up your answer where you said, "So I too went there and with some - and met some". Please continue from that point.

  • Thank you, my Lord. I went there myself. I saw our own artillery members, the RUF artillery members, so they were the ones who told us that after the engineers would have repaired those weapons we were to use them. So the main woman - in fact I forgot to give the woman's name who came from Liberia to use the weapon. She was called Martina. She was to come and use the weapons, so that is why the engineers had come earlier to hurry up and repair the weapons. So, after repairing the weapons, then the RUF would take the weapon to the point where they would want to use it and that woman would come and operate it. That was how I knew that we were to use the weapon.

  • Now, Mr Witness, you told us about a woman called Martina. To your knowledge, who was Martina?

  • Well, according to our RUF artilleries, those whom I met there, they told me that this Martina woman was in Liberia in Charles Taylor's government. She was there. She was coming from Liberia after the weapon would have been repaired and she, Martina, would come to operate the weapon.

  • Thank you, Mr Witness.

  • Mr Werner, it is not clear. Was this weapon being repaired on Sierra Leonean soil, or in Liberian soil? It is not very clear to me, "when we crossed", "we crossed", I am not sure where they crossed from or to.

  • I will clarify that with the witness, your Honour:

  • So, Mr Witness, to your knowledge, where was this weapon being repaired exactly?

  • This 40 barrel was in the Kailahun District, Manowa, Manowa crossing point where the Moa River is. The weapon was there in the bush. They took it off from the road and put it into the bush. It is in the Sierra Leone part of the border, Kailahun District.

  • And where was it repaired?

  • In the same bush at this Manowa crossing point. There was where it was. It was being repaired there.

  • Thank you, Mr Witness. Now, Mr Witness, yesterday you spoke as well about some bypasses used to enter NPFL territories in Liberia and I am referring to page 10978, lines 16 to 29, and page 10979, lines 1 to 2. Now, you said yesterday that while you were in Kailahun Town with CO Denis, "Sam Bockarie had tried all possible means to use certain bypasses in between the ULIMO, as to be able to enter Liberia", and there were "strategic areas the RUF could use as bypasses" to enter NPFL territories in Liberia. Now, Mr Witness, what period was this?

  • It was during the period when we came from Peyama with Sam Bockarie with the crack force that we went to overrun the Sierra Leone government that took over Kailahun. That was what I was referring to. That was the period. After the mission, that was the time that Sam Bockarie was trying to get the bypasses to enter into Liberia to get ammunition from the NPFL territory.

  • And can you remember the year?

  • It was around 1996. It was 1996.

  • Now, to your knowledge, Mr Witness, at that time did anyone outside Sierra Leone use these bypasses to enter RUF territories in Sierra Leone?

  • I did not get that question clearly.

  • I will repeat it. To your knowledge, did anyone from outside Sierra Leone use these bypasses to enter RUF territories in Sierra Leone?

  • Well, to my knowledge, because I was in Kailahun, I only understood that Sam Bockarie had tried to enter using the bypass.

  • Just pause, Mr Witness. Mr Anyah?

  • Yes, I stand to be corrected, but the record as it stands currently, as I recollect it, suggests that Bockarie had made efforts to find these bypasses. I don't know that there is confirmation on the record, by the witness, that the bypasses were in fact found and were used by the RUF, but I stand to be corrected.

  • I have the portion relevant and again it is - I gave the reference and I am just going to read the transcript.

  • If you would, Mr Werner.

  • The question was:

    "At that time what, if anything, did you learn about the events happening near this border where you were in Kailahun Town with CO Dennis?"

    The witness said:

    "Well, at that time we had understood that Sam Bockarie had tried all possible means to use certain bypasses in between the ULIMO, as to be able to enter Liberia, because at that time where the RUF territory was, towards the Liberian border, was on land and there were strategic areas that the RUF could use as bypasses."

  • I understand Mr Anyah's objection is that that answer does not clearly define a finding or location of such bypasses. Am I correct, Mr Anyah?

  • Yes, the phrase there is "could".

  • And it would appear that there is not a clear answer, unless you have some further transcript you wish to read to us, Mr Werner?

  • Just allow me to consult. Our submission would be that what he was trying was precisely to use certain bypasses and that there were strategic areas at that time that the RUF - and he said specifically that the RUF could use as bypasses. And my follow-up question is simply to your knowledge did anyone, if you know, from outside Sierra Leone use these bypasses?

  • That isn't what you actually asked. What you asked amounted to leading. However, if you ask it in the terms that you are now putting it I will allow that use of phraseology.

  • Thank you, your Honour:

  • So, Mr Witness, to your knowledge did anyone if you know from outside Sierra Leone use these bypasses?

  • No, it's the location of them first of all, Mr Werner, if they were actually located. There is a difference between looking for them, locating them and then using them.

  • I understand, your Honours:

  • So, to your knowledge, Mr Witness, were these bypasses found or located?

  • From what I heard, when we were in Kailahun they tried to locate the bypasses. They entered once. The RUF entered once into Liberia and they went, but on their way coming back they were not successful. They fell into an ambush. In fact that was the only time they attempted. They went and returned and they were never able to go back.

  • And when you said that they entered once, the RUF entered once into Liberia, do you know who entered into Liberia?

  • No, I don't know the person specifically.

  • Well, Mr Werner, that's not what this witness said originally. To your question his answer was as follows, "Well, to my knowledge, because I was in Kailahun I only understood that Sam Bockarie had tried to enter using the bypass" and now he has gone a step further in saying that the bypass was actually used.

  • Yes, that's what the witness said.

  • Well, if that's what he says now I don't know what his previous answer means.

  • I will clarify that, your Honour:

  • Mr Witness, yesterday you told us that Sam Bockarie had tried to use a bypass and this morning you said that actually some people from the RUF did use this bypass once?

  • I think what Justice Lussick was referring to was the transcript from today's evidence.

  • It is not just limited to yesterday that he used the phrase "tried". He used it five seconds ago here in Court.

  • He did yesterday and today. I agree with that. I will rephrase it:

  • Mr Witness, yesterday and today you said that Sam Bockarie tried to locate some bypasses and today you said that actually some members of the RUF managed to use these bypasses and to go from Sierra Leone to Liberia. Can you clarify that, Mr Witness?

  • Yes, sir. What I said - maybe it was the interpreter who did not interpret it correctly. Sam Bockarie tried to locate - they were trying to look for a road to enter into Liberia. He himself, Sam Bockarie, did not go. He sent people. That's what I meant by people tried to enter once, and they went, so on their way back they fell into an ambush. It was not that Sam Bockarie himself went, but he was the one and others who tried to find ways and means to enter to where the ULIMOs where. That's what I meant.

  • Thank you, Mr Witness. I think it clarifies that point.

  • Just maybe to ask, Mr Werner, what was this ambush or who mounted this ambush, if the witness knows?

  • I will clarify that:

  • Mr Witness, you heard the question. Who mounted, to your knowledge, this ambush at that time?

  • The ULIMOs who were at the border. They detected that our men had passed into Liberia, so they set an ambush after they had gone, so on their way back they fell into their ambush. Because they used the same route. The ULIMOs set the ambush, the ULIMOs of Liberia.

  • So to be completely clear you said, "They detected that our men had passed into Liberia". So where did the ambush happen, in Sierra Leone or Liberia?

  • It was in Liberia. In Liberia. Across the border on the Liberian end.

  • Thank you, Mr Witness. Now yesterday you gave some evidence about different brigades in the RUF and I refer to the transcript of yesterday, page 11002, lines 12 to 14, and you said that at first there was only the 1st and the 2nd Brigades and then there was a brigade at Magburaka. Now, Mr Witness, what was the brigade at Magburaka? How was the brigade at Magburaka called?

  • Well, that brigade which was later established in Magburaka, we heard that it was called Lion Strike Force brigade. That was what we heard it being called at the Magburaka axis.

  • Thank you, Mr Witness. Now yesterday you gave some evidence about Sam Bockarie using a satellite phone and that you saw Sam Bockarie in Koindu. Now I am referring to the transcript of yesterday, pages 11011, lines 8 to 14, and pages 11012, lines 19 to 23.

    Now you testified about this communication from Koindu on your birthday and you said that Sam Bockarie communicated with Liberia using a sat phone and then you described the sat phone and you said: "He had a pouch and the pouch had a zip around it and then he opened the zip and then he took the face off the screen and then it was on his lap. He took the phone and he started pressing some buttons and he started communicating."

    Now first, Mr Witness, what do you mean when you said that Sam Bockarie had a pouch with a zip around it?

  • The pouch, what I meant is it was something like a bag. It had a zipper around it. That's what I meant by the pouch. It was like a bag which contained the satellite and it was zipped. It had a zipper around it. That's what I meant by the pouch.

  • Then what do you mean when you said that Sam Bockarie took the face off the screen? Could you clarify that?

  • Well, when he opened the bag or the pouch where the satellite was, he opened the satellite itself just like when you are opening a laptop thing. It was locked. When he opened the bag up and he lifted the opener of the - he lifted the satellite itself and there were some other things down where the buttons were and he used to press them. That's what I mean.

  • Mr Interpreter, did the witness use the word "cover"?

  • Or "face"? "Face" or "cover"?

  • "Face", your Honour, I think.

  • Your Honour, can the witness repeat that one. Normally we don't record what they say. We can just --

  • Mr Witness, could you please repeat what you have said about the face or covering of this pouch that was lifted out.

  • The pouch or bag which he opened, after he had unzipped it he opened it and he took off the face of the satellite and opened it. The satellite was in it, just like how a radio can be in its packet and you open up the packet and you take out the radio and you open it, that's how it was. That's what I meant.

  • And then when you said that he took the phone, again what was the phone?

  • The mouthpiece which he used to speak into, the mouthpiece. That's what I was saying.

  • And where was the phone in regard to the face or the cover?

  • It was on his lap.

  • No, but when he opened the pouch?

  • The phone was on his leg when he opened the pouch. It was on his lap. He was sitting like this. His legs were joined together like this.

  • And you talked about a mouthpiece. What did you mean when you talked about the mouthpiece? Could you explain that?

  • There was something which was connected to the phone that he used and that was what he spoke into. He pressed it and he spoke into it.

  • And was the mouthpiece attached to anything?

  • It was attached to the phone. Yes, sir, it was attached to the phone.

  • And was the phone attached to anything?

  • Anything like what?

  • So it was the mouthpiece which was attached, correct?

  • Okay. Now what do you mean when you said that he started pressing buttons?

  • For dial. To dial.

  • Sorry, Mr Witness, where were the buttons that he started to press?

  • They were on the phone.

  • Thank you, Mr Witness. Now, yesterday you talked about the communication during the same time and I will be referring to the transcript of yesterday, page 11013, lines 10 to 21, and page 11009, lines 15 to 24. You said yesterday that on your birthday in Koindu, whilst Sam Bockarie was communicating with Liberia, an Alpha Jet appeared and bombed and fired guns all over the area and you testified that from there, "He did not speak to anybody any more. He just jumped into his vehicle and then went towards the Liberian side." Now, when you say that he jumped into his car, who jumped into his vehicle?

  • Sam Bockarie. After the Alpha Jet had come and shot around and returned and all of us ran into the bush and we came out and he took him out, and when he came back we called his bodyguard, those who were in the bush, and they came. He, Sam Bockarie, went into the vehicle, together with his bodyguards, and they went. They drove through Foya and went to Liberia.

  • Who went to Liberia?

  • Sam Bockarie and his bodyguards.

  • And then yesterday you told us about one bodyguard called Mohamed Banya, aka Shabado, and you said that during that event you were talking to Shabado. Where did Shabado go?

  • He, Shabado, went into the vehicle together with Sam Bockarie and the others - Liberia.

  • Now, Mr Witness, did you see Shabado after Sam Bockarie and the others left towards the Liberian side?

  • Yes, because we were present when they went into the vehicle and we waved goodbye to them and they left, Sam Bockarie, Shabado and the bodyguards, and they left.

  • And after they left, when is the next time that you saw Shabado again?

  • The next time I saw Shabado was the time Sam Bockarie called me and I went to Buedu to go with the letter to Colonel Jungle at Foya Tenga. I met him at the ground - at Sam Bockarie's ground, Buedu.

  • At any time, what, if anything, did Shabado tell you about that particular trip, the one he took to Liberia the day of your birthday?

  • Well, that particular time when Sam Bockarie called me, I did not have any discussion with Shabado concerning that. It was only about the letter. Sam Bockarie told me to hasten up and go with the letter so I could reach Foya Tenga early. So when I came back from Foya Tenga I told him I had given the letter to Colonel Jungle and I returned to my ground at Koindu. I was not able to discuss anything with Shabado, at that time, about anything else.

  • And what, if anything, did Shabado tell you after that time you saw Shabado? Did he tell you anything at any time about that trip he took on the day of your birthday?

  • The time I took the letter, when they went to Liberia, Shabado, and they returned, the only time I saw Shabado again was when Sam Bockarie invited me when I came to Buedu and he gave me the letter that I took to Colonel Jungle and when I came from Colonel Jungle's place and returned, I gave Sam Bockarie a report that I had taken the letter and I returned to my place. After some time again I left Koindu and I came to Buedu to visit my family, I saw Shabado again, but at that particular moment we did not discuss anything, myself and Shabado.

  • Thank you, Mr Witness. Now, Mr Witness, yesterday you told us that you had two conversations with Shabado and I will be referring to page 11022, line 11 to 16, and then I asked you, Mr Witness, yesterday what Shabado told you during the first conversation you had with him and then I asked you about the discussion you had with Shabado about the second trip that Shabado took and you said that, "They went there for the same material business and food for the soldiers who were on the ground." Mr Witness, what did you mean when you said, "They went there for the same material business"?

  • What I meant, it was Shabado and Sam Bockarie. I told you that I understood that Shabado and Sam Bockarie went to Liberia twice, apart from the one on my birthday. I told you they went there on two other occasions. Shabado said they went to Liberia for Sam Bockarie to talk to Charles Taylor for materials, because that was how we referred to arms and ammunitions, materials, in the RUF. That is what I said even yesterday. They went there to talk for materials to be brought to the RUF territory.

  • Now, Mr Witness, yesterday I asked you some questions about - or you gave some evidence about the supplies which were brought to Koindu in 1998. I will be referring to page 11029, lines 2 to 8. Then you told us about supplies being brought to Koindu and I asked you, and that was my last question yesterday, "Who brought this material to you in Koindu, Mr Witness?" You said, "Well, at that time the fighting was going on, Sam Bockarie sent the artillery unit with a twin barreled BZT." Now, when you said "at that time the fighting was going on", what fighting were you talking about when you said that?

  • The attack that the Guinean troops made against Koindu. That is what I was referring to.

  • Now, to be completely clear, did this material you talked about come before, during, or after this attack?

  • The materials came when there was the attack on Koindu. That was when Sam Bockarie sent the artillery, together with the twin barreled BZT, to us.

  • That is after the attack, probably. The question was "before, during, or after", and he says when there was the attack on Koindu.

  • That is what I understood. I will clarify.

  • So that means after the attack perhaps.

  • So, Mr Witness, when this material came, was the attack going on?

  • Yes, what I meant by after the attack, the first day the attack, 15/16 June - the attack went on right up to six months. It was during that period. That was when the artilleries came with the reinforcement and the material towards Koindu. That was what I meant.

  • Thank you, Mr Witness. Now, yesterday - and I will be referring to the transcript page 11015, lines 5 to 19 - you told us about the use of securities by senior RUF members and what you said was that Sam Bockarie's securities - sorry, you testified about Sam Bockarie's securities and you testified also about RUF securities. You testified that in fact this was something that the RUF senior vanguard authorities always did:

    "They would always send one of their securities to serve as their eyes, or to serve as their representative to the various front lines and they would be there always compiling reports to be sent to their commanders."

    Now, Mr Witness, when you said that the senior RUF authorities always did this, who do you mean by senior RUF authorities?

  • One, like if Foday Sankoh was within the RUF territory, he will send his Black Guard securities; two would be Sam Bockarie; the third would be Issa Sesay; four, Morris Kallon; five, PB Vandi and so on. Those were the senior RUF vanguards. All of them had securities, bodyguards, that they will send to the various front lines to be there as their representatives, so they will be writing security reports about what was going on on the ground, so you, the front line commander, will not send any false reports to the headquarters about anything.

  • And when you said that one, Foday Sankoh, was within the RUF territories, which time frame are you talking about? When did Foday Sankoh do that?

  • Since the time I knew Foday Sankoh in 1991, his Executive Mansion Guards were always on the front lines and up to the moment he went out, his securities were always on the front line. On his return, they will compile their reports and give it to him, that, "In your absence", that is in Foday Sankoh's absence, "these were the things that happened."

  • Now, you said that second to that would be Sam Bockarie. When did Sam Bockarie do that then?

  • Like at the time I was in Koindu, Sam Bockarie sent his security there who was called Ray. Yesterday I mentioned his name. He was with us in Koindu and at the second brigade also Sam Bockarie sent his securities there and also to the other front lines where the other battalions were. He would always send his securities, either one securities, or when there was too much pressure he would send two securities there. That was what he used to do. He send them to all the front lines.

  • And then you mentioned as well Issa Sesay. When did Issa Sesay do that?

  • He too did the same thing. Issa Sesay's security was with us at Koindu and where there were some other battalions where fighting was going on and the other brigades also where fighting was going on. He sent his securities there to write situation reports for him. That is for Issa Sesay.

  • Now, Mr Witness, yesterday you told us about your trip to Foya Tenga in 1998 to take a letter from Sam Bockarie to Jungle and I will be referring to page 11023 to 11027 of the transcript of yesterday. Now, you testified that during your trip to Foya Tenga in 1998, that was the first time for you to meet Jungle in person, but you said you had been seeing him before in RUF territories and then you testified that when Jungle entered the RUF territories he was not somebody that used - he did not enter in secret and you said that he was somebody who travelled frequently between the RUF and Charles Taylor, and you said that "He was travelling between Charles Taylor and Sam Bockarie frequently. Everybody knew about that. We all knew about it." Now, Mr Witness, what time period before your trip to Foya Tenga was Jungle travelling between the RUF and Charles Taylor?

  • Even during the AFRC overthrow, at the time the AFRC overthrew the Sierra Leone government, we heard that Colonel Jungle came to the RUF territory. He stayed with Sam Bockarie for some time and then he went back. We got that information.

  • You said, "We heard that Jungle came". Where did you hear that, Mr Witness?

  • Well, during my first trip that I moved from Kailahun to Freetown and when I returned to Kailahun I understood that Colonel Jungle came around but that he had returned back to Liberia.

  • And which year was that?

  • And how did you understand that?

  • Just like I had said before, in the RUF we used to discuss with each other, especially when the high commands were sitting together. I refer to myself as high command because I was also a senior officer. So if I went out and returned, if there was any latest development on the ground, like in Kailahun, the other senior men whom I will meet there will explain to me. I will ask them, I will say, "What is the news around?" And then during privileged conversations we will explain to one another and they will tell me that, "You were not here of course but Jungle came around but he has returned." And then I will also explain to them when I went to Freetown what happened there. Those were not things that were hidden amongst us. We did not hide things from each other, because we will always want to know from each other what the latest developments were on the individual grounds. So that was how I came to know about most of the events that took place.

  • Mr Werner, sorry to interrupt you, but the witness has used the expression "privileged conversations" in this last answer and I recall him using that same term yesterday and then to say things were not hidden. It does appear to be somewhat contradictory. What does he mean by "privileged conversation"?

  • Mr Witness, have you heard the question from the Presiding Judge?

  • So what did you mean by "privileged conversation", Mr Witness?

  • Well, what I mean by privileged conversation, to my understanding, it is in the situation for instance when it is not an official report that I will receive either in written form or through radio message, but if I meet you as a friend, then we sit together and discuss and then all of a sudden a topic comes in and then Jungle's topic comes in and then I will ask you, "What is the latest development?" By then you will not be giving me an official report. It is just something one on one that we are discussing, an information from you to me or from me to you. So when we sit amongst ourselves the kind of discussions we normally got was what I am referring to as privileged conversation.

  • Thank you.

  • And to your knowledge at that time in '97 when you heard that, why did Jungle come to Sierra Leone at that time?

  • Well, the fact that Jungle - I can say he was almost part of us, the RUF. So even at the time the AFRC overthrow took place he also came around maybe to see what the reality of the situation was on the ground. So that was why he came to actually know how the overthrow took place and that the RUF will now move from the hinterland areas and go to the cities. And then he knew of course that initially the soldiers and the RUF were enemies to one another, but that we were now together. He might have come to see what the reality was on the ground.

  • Now you said that, "He might have come to see what the reality was on the ground." So what did you mean when you said, "He might have come to see what was the reality on the ground"?

  • He came to actually see what was happening when the AFRC had overthrown and that they invited the RUF to come and join them. For him to see whether it was actually clear that since we have joined the AFRC, whether there were no disputes amongst us and whether we were working hand in glove. That is what I mean by the reality.

  • Now, Mr Witness, yesterday you said that Jungle brought materials and other things and I will be referring to the transcript of yesterday, page 11028, lines 20 to 28, and you said that, "When Colonel Jungle would come with material and any other thing he brought they will explain to us for us to grow our spirits."

    Now you had testified before that "materials" means arms and ammunition and I am referring to the transcript of yesterday, page 11013, lines 18 to 21. So when you say, "He would come with material and any other thing" what would --

  • Just pause, Mr Werner. Mr Anyah, you have your --

  • It is a minor point but the record using the disjunctive "or" instead of "and", the conjunctive.

  • Do you mean at arms or --

  • No, in respect of materials the witness's evidence on page 11028, specifically at line 20, it reads, "And even when the man would come with materials or any other thing."

  • Do you see the point, Mr Werner?

  • Can you just give us one second, your Honour?

  • Let me ask it in another way:

  • Mr Witness, you told us yesterday that Jungle brought materials and you said that he brought arms and ammunition. What else, if anything, did Jungle bring at that time?

  • We heard that he brought medicines to us that we referred to as drugs; medicines, antibiotics, Panadols, injection, antibiotic injections for wounded soldiers that we had in the RUF.

  • And how did you learn about that?

  • We had a unit that was called the combat medics. They were responsible for the medicines. It was a unit that was in charge of the sick or the wounded and if there were no drugs we will know that there were no drugs. And if we went to the hospital we will know that there were no drugs. But if drugs came again we will know that drugs had come because the materials that Colonel Jungle brought, he will always take them to the headquarters, to Mosquito, and the radio operators who were at the headquarters will easily reveal the messages to the various front lines and they will tell us that the medicines or the drugs have arrived and that so and so person has brought some materials. Because sometimes soldiers were sick and sometimes I was also sick and if we had wounded soldiers and there were no medicines and we later hear that medicines had arrived then we will send the soldiers to the combat medics. That was how we knew.

  • So are you saying that you were told by the radio operators? Is that what you said?

  • Now, Mr Witness, you told us yesterday about ammunition and you told us about medicine. What else, if anything, to your knowledge did Jungle bring in 1998 to the RUF?

  • Well, he used to bring food as well like rice and rice was our staple food that we needed, because sometimes when there was shortage of food on the front lines it caused problems. That was sometimes the reason why soldiers will go AWOL and they will desert their grounds and go on food finding. So food also were supplies that came to our headquarters.

  • Mr Witness, when did it come to the headquarters, rice supplies?

  • At any time supply came to the headquarters and if there was food among the supply it all came to the headquarters. It was - there wasn't any specified time that it was on Mondays that food will arrive. But at any time materials or food came they will go to the headquarters where Sam Bockarie was and they will put it in the warehouse and from there they will distribute them to the various areas that needed them.

  • Now, Mr Witness, you said that, "They will explain to us for us to grow our spirits so we will be able to do our things." So who would explain to you for you to grow your spirits?

  • Like for instance if you were fortunate to come across Sam Bockarie himself, because Sam Bockarie was a man who as long as somebody was dedicated to his front line and was dedicated to defending his ground, like for instance the time we were in Koindu and if there was a bombardment against there, Buedu was just seven miles away from Koindu and if they had bombardment around Koindu it was - they will run away very quickly. Because Koindu was very short to Buedu, I will sometimes move from Koindu and come to Buedu and I will go to his ground. If you were a senior man who came from your own ground to his own ground and you were there, you will have to present yourself to him for him to know that you were on the ground and he will be able to know that you had left your deployment ground and that you were on his own ground.

    Sometimes I will go and visit him, I will go to his place and I will meet him, I will sit with him and I will discuss with him and if there were any developments, he was bold enough to explain to us. If there were developments that he was undertaking for the revolution, he will tell us. He wouldn't want the combatants or the civilians to feel that he was only - he was only doing things out of his own selfish ends. So he would always explain to us that he was trying for us to get materials, or that materials had arrived, or that food had arrived. So he will always explain to us and besides his boys - I mean his bodyguards, like Mohamed Banya, Shabado, Ray and others who were with us, we used to have such discussions with them. They used to explain to us. Those were not hidden things, because in the RUF we did not have any other way to get materials except through Charles Taylor.

    Almost all the original civilians in the RUF and the original combatants in the RUF all knew that it was only through Charles Taylor that we used to get our food supply for us to be able to fight in our revolution and if there were no supplies the revolution looked - it looked boring because nobody will want to just sit like that and sometimes they will want to send food to the borders where there were high level manpower. So he was a man who was so bold that at any time people went to Kailahun and they met him, he will explain things to us and it was from such discussions that we knew that our supplies came from Charles Taylor, from Liberia.

  • Then you said that he will do that to grow your spirits. What did you mean when you said that he would do that to grow your spirits?

  • Because like, for instance, I was a soldier and I was fighting with a gun and the gun needed ammunition and if there were no ammunitions in the gun I would not be able to fight, because if the enemy shot at my direction and I had no ammunition, there was no alternative but for me to run away. But if I had mine, if the enemy shot towards my direction then I will also shoot towards the enemy's direction and the alternative would be that I would stay there and fight against him. But if I had no ammunition, after the enemy shoot out, the next thing was for me to run away.

  • Thank you, Mr Witness.

  • Well, Mr Werner, you have asked him twice now about how he will do that "to grow your spirits" and I am still none the wiser. We have heard a long rambling answer, which doesn't go anywhere. So perhaps you can direct your witness's attention to your questions with a bit more precision.

  • Mr Witness, I asked you a precise question which was how this information would, as you said, grow your spirits, so if you can just try to answer that question and to tell us how, to your knowledge, at that time this information grew your spirits?

  • It will grow my spirit if I knew that there were ammunition for me to fight. That would make me zealous and I will have high spirits for me to fight, but if there were no ammunition and if Sam Bockarie did not tell me anything, or if the bodyguards did not tell me anything and that I had no ammunition, the next thing I will be thinking about was to hide, or if there were enemy shoot outs, the next thing I will do is to run away to find somewhere to hide. But if he told me that there were then, I will be zealous to fight. That was what I meant.

  • Thank you, Mr Witness. Now, yesterday, Mr Witness, you told us that you saw Jungle when you went to deliver to him that letter. Now, did you see Jungle again after that?

  • Yes, I saw Jungle on another occasion.

  • And can you remember when you saw Jungle the next time?

  • I saw Jungle on another occasion during a meeting that was convened, that Sam Bockarie convened for all commanders, in a secret location between Buedu and Dawa. That was where I saw Colonel Jungle again.

  • And when did this meeting take place, to your knowledge?

  • That meeting took place in 1998. That was the time the meeting took place.

  • Could you explain to us what happened when you went to this meeting?

  • Well, we received a radio message from Sam Bockarie, on our grounds in Koindu, that the battalion commander and the adjutants, including two representatives, should report in Buedu headquarters for a meeting, or a forum, because that was how we used to refer to it. We never used to refer to it as a meeting. We said forum. So we went there, but we did not know actually that the message had gone - had spread all over. So those who were in the jungles and the others from the other battalions, Pendembu and other areas, they also came. So we went to that meeting and it was during that meeting that I saw Colonel Jungle. It was a meeting concerning Issa Sesay and the agenda was around Issa Sesay and the pressure on RUF/AFRC by the ECOMOG, and the CDF and the way forward, and how we could try and have nice things. That was the agenda.

    The issue with Issa Sesay was that Sam Bockarie had given diamonds to Issa Sesay to be taken to Charles Taylor in Liberia and when he went, according to Issa Sesay, I think he stayed there for about a week or so and he returned and on his return he reported that he had - the diamonds had got missing. So that was what he said and that was the reason why Sam Bockarie called that meeting for him to be able to explain to everyone that that was the situation and that in the RUF we did not have any other way or means to get materials. It was only through the diamonds that we got, that we will pass over to Charles Taylor and he will provide us with arms and ammunition, but now that Issa Sesay has gone to Liberia to present these diamonds and on his return he has reported that the diamonds got missing, he was now trying to ask us all, the congregation, what we could do about that and it was during that meeting that I saw Colonel Jungle. He was seated over the high table and in fact he brought with him another person that was a Liberian general and I asked a colleague of mine, who was close to me, that who was that other Liberian general that was seated close to Colonel Jungle and he told me it was General Ibrahim, and it was during that meeting that I saw Colonel Jungle.

    After Sam Bockarie had given us his bits and he also told us that we had some visitors that had come to join us and after which Sam Bockarie introduced Colonel Jungle and General Ibrahim during the meeting. After he had done the introduction, Colonel Jungle also got up and addressed the meeting and he said - he thanked Sam Bockarie and all of us who came to attend the meeting and that he was praying that the cause of the revolution will be successful. He said he was there to tell us that the RUF and the AFRC and the relationship between them was recognised by Charles Taylor, and that he was saying that although we have been pushed out of the city, we shouldn't worry ourselves, but that he was advising that we try and get hold over Kono, because that was where we will get our resources.

    Then he also discussed the maintenance of an airstrip. There was an airstrip that we were trying to construct behind Buedu and he said we should also try, as fast as possible, to construct that airstrip, because in case of any emergency landing of materials, the aircraft will have to land there. So it was during that meeting that I again saw Colonel Jungle.

  • Thank you, Mr Witness. Now, I just want to clarify a few things. First you said that there was a call to Koindu for the battalion commander and the adjutant to come to the meeting, so at the time of that call who was the battalion commander in Koindu?

  • It was Colonel Harris. He was called Colonel Harris.

  • And who was Colonel Harris?

  • He was a junior commando. He was a Sierra Leonean.

  • Do you know his full name?

  • And when did he come to Koindu to become the battalion commander?

  • It was when the Guineans attacked Koindu and he was the one that Sam Bockarie sent with the reinforcement to go and help the battle in Koindu. So when he went there, he now stayed there as the commander.

  • Now, you said that they called as well the adjutant from Koindu to come, so who was the adjutant that they called to come from Koindu?

  • At that time I was acting as adjutant in Koindu, I was.

  • Because yesterday you told us that after the intervention you were sent to Koindu and at that time nobody was in charge of Koindu and you were acting as the one in charge in Koindu, so when did you become the acting adjutant in Koindu?

  • When Sam Bockarie sent Colonel Harris to take over in Koindu and when he became the commander I started acting as adjutant under him.

  • Now, at the meeting that you told us about, who that you can remember was present in this meeting?

  • Colonel Harris was there, I was there, Superman came, Augustine Gbao, CO Augustine Gbao came, CO Augustine Gbao. Issa Sesay himself was there. There was an adjutant called Hi-Rash, Rashid Sandy, he was also present in the meeting and some other senior RUF authorities, most of them were present in that meeting because it was a matter that concerned the RUF.

  • And then when you said there was an adjutant called Hi-Rash, Rashid Sandy, who was Hi-Rash? Who was Rashid Sandy?

  • Well, Rashid Sandy was a junior commando. He was the man who was acting as general adjutant for the RUF, but he was not actually the general adjutant because it was a vanguard called CO Kposowa who was the general adjutant, but at that time CO Kposowa was not with us. It was Hi-Rash that was acting as the general adjutant with us.

  • Your Honour, I will try to get clarification from the witness about this Rash:

  • How would you spell Rash? You say Hi-Rash?

  • Well, Hi we used to say H-I hyphen R-A-S-H. It was Rashid that we shortened. It was the shortened form of Rashid. He was called Rashid Sandy, but in the shortened form of that we used to call it Hi-Rash.

  • And, your Honour, we have a spelling for Kposowa, the other adjutant, that will be K-P-O-S-O-W-A:

  • Now, you told us about Augustine Gbao. Who was Augustine Gbao?

  • Augustine Gbao was a vanguard. He was a Sierra Leonean.

  • Just one more question about Rashid Sandy: To your knowledge, at the time of the meeting for whom, if anyone, did Rashid Sandy work at that time?

  • Well, he was working directly with Sam Bockarie at that time.

  • Now you told us yesterday about the existence of a 2nd Brigade in Kono District. Who, if anyone, from the 2nd Brigade was present in that meeting that you can remember?

  • Like Issa Sesay. He was later with the 2nd Brigade. He was with the 2nd Brigade. Issa Sesay came from there. Like in the case of Superman, he was not with the 2nd Brigade. But Issa Sesay, Peter B Vandi, yes, Peter B Vandi, he was with the 2nd Brigade also. He also came to that meeting. I saw almost all the RUF senior officers, the vanguards. They were all present in that meeting.

  • Are you able to say about how many RUF senior officers were present in that meeting?

  • Now you spoke about Superman. Was Superman in that meeting?

  • Now you spoke about a high table in that meeting. What did you mean when you spoke about the high table?

  • The high table I meant was that they were seated in front of us, just like the judges are sitting in front of us now. So they were sitting there like Sam Bockarie was in the middle and there was Issa Sesay, Peter Vandi, Colonel Jungle, the Hi-Rash. They were at the high table and all the other delegates who came, we were sitting in front of them. They were looking at us face to face and we were also looking at them.

  • And again you spoke about a General Ibrahim. Where was General Ibrahim during that meeting?

  • He was - he also occupied the same high table, because he came as a guest. He was introduced as a guest; he and Colonel Jungle.

  • Well, at that time that you were told about General Ibrahim, what, if anything, did you learn about General Ibrahim?

  • Well, that was in fact my first time seeing General Ibrahim and he also got up and he buttressed what they came to do. What Colonel Jungle had already addressed us about, that Charles Taylor sent them to come and prove to us that he is still with us, that we shouldn't worry, although we have been pushed out he is trying to - we should be prepared to settle down and he is trying for us to get more materials to strike again and so that we will be able to capture places like Kono and so many other places. And he, General Ibrahim, also introduced himself to us and, like I said, most of us did not actually know him. I particularly did not know him before. So when he introduced himself to us he said his own things and then he sat down.

  • And what did he say when he introduced himself to you, to the people who were in this meeting?

  • He, General Ibrahim, also said what exactly Colonel Jungle had said and he said that although most of us had seen Colonel Jungle before but he had now come to tell us that indeed he is coming directly from Charles Taylor and that both of them, they have come to address us on the relationship between Charles Taylor and the RUF and that the relationship was still going strong, that we shouldn't mind although we have been pushed out. He said the only thing that he was advising was that we should try and recapture Kono and that the AFRC and us, we should always try and work hand in glove because if there were infightings amongst us we will not be able to concentrate on the fighting. So when he got up that was the address that he addressed the floor. That is General Ibrahim.

  • When he introduced himself, did he say anything about himself to the meeting about who he was?

  • Yes, he said he was part of the Liberian government. Yes, because that was why he came. That he was part of the Liberian government, he was working under Charles Taylor. That was what he said, that he was part of the Liberian government, he was working under Charles Taylor. Him, General Ibrahim.

  • Now you told us before in your first answer that you were told in that meeting that you should try to hold Kono and that that is where you will get your resources. What did they mean when they told you that?

  • Well, Kono - we know that Kono is where diamonds are. That was where we were able the mine and get diamonds very fast to speed up the revolution that we were fighting. But if we hadn't grips on Kono for us to get money or diamonds to fight the revolution, because the materials were being bought, we will not be able to get the materials except we will fight hard to get Kono for us to be able to sponsor the revolution.

  • Thank you, Mr Witness. Now I would like to ask you a few more questions about the attack against Koindu and you already told us quite a lot about that. You told us that the attack happened on 15 or 16 June. Now, Mr Witness, how are you able to remember the precise day of that attack on Koindu?

  • Especially 16 June. 16 June is a day that I knew about even before the war that it is the Day of the African Child where sometimes in South Africa a lot of black children were killed in South Africa. So that day had been declared as the Day of the African Child. So when that day comes, like this June that we are in now, on the 16th, like for us in Sierra Leone, when that day comes you will see the children, the small children, between ages five, six, up to 14, they will be dressed. Some will be dressed as lawyers, others like the judges there, some others like the police to suggest that they were the future. They had a future of tomorrow but that they had been killed in South Africa. So that day is in memory of those children who were killed. That some would have been judges, police, presidents and soldiers. So that's how I came to remember that day and up until now I can remember that day, the Day of the African Child.

  • So are you saying that the Guinean attack on Koindu happened on the Day of the African Child?

  • Now can you tell us a little bit more about that attack. Where were you the day of that attack yourself?

  • I was in Koindu Town. It was around 4.30 to 5, very early in the morning, when the first bombshell came from the Guinea end and landed right in Koindu. But, you know, the way the bomb sounded, because I was a little sleepy, I got it but it was not too much, but I woke up suddenly and I started hearing some noise in the town. So I came outside and the second bomb also landed, the one that was launched, it too landed in Koindu that night. So we started hearing firing being launched from the riverside, that Nongowa riverside at the Koindu border with Guinea, the crossing point called Nongowa crossing point, they were launching from there and it was landing in Koindu. That was how that attack started.

    We were in Koindu, we the soldiers, we reorganised ourselves and advanced towards them. We went up to - because from Koindu to the river is three miles. We went almost two miles, more than two miles, a mile to the riverside we mounted an ambush there that morning - very early that morning. They moved and crossed the river. By the time - at the time that they were shelling they were across the river, but by daybreak they came across because there was a ferry there, a big ferry. They crossed over with their armoured tanks and vehicles and the manpower, they were on the ground coming. So when they came they fell into our ambush that particular morning.

    We fought, we continued fighting, but their manpower was more than ours and they had a lot of ammunition and materials than us. So they sent us in disarray so we bypassed up to Koindu. So I came and went to the radio place - in fact I met the radio men. They had parked their equipment and went to another - gone to another village called Konjo, a mile from Koindu going towards Buedu.

    When I came on the ground I asked and they said the radio men hand gone to Konjo so I went there, but by then, just like I had said, Koindu to Buedu was 17 miles. People had heard - Sam Bockarie and others had heard, the soldiers had heard, but they did not know exactly what was going on. So I too went on the radio and prepared the message and sent it immediately to Sam Bockarie that we have come under attack at Koindu by the Guineans, through the Guinean riverside, and they had sent us in disarray so we wanted reinforcement, but they were advancing towards Koindu. That was how the attack happened on Koindu.

  • Mr Witness, for how long did this attack take place in Koindu?

  • That attack on Koindu was from June to December. It was on 24 December 1998. They crossed the river. They crossed the first village. They came two miles. There was a hill. From the main road you would have to branch to about 200 metres and you would go up the hill. The hill was a little higher. You go up that hill and you will see Koindu underneath you. So it was on top of that hill that the Guineans deployed.

    That was where they set their artillery, their manpower, all of them went there. They were there and they were shooting into Koindu. They were sitting right inside Koindu. There were some areas where there were large trees, if passed there they will not see you, but they were seeing into the main town of Koindu. So they stayed there, we were fighting against them there. That was where they left. They were there and they would leave Guinea and they would change there. They would relieve the others who were there. Some would be coming and others would be going.

    So when we had the reinforcement, when Colonel Harris and others came with the manpower we bypassed them and set an ambush from where they were based on top of the hill to the riverside. So we suppressed them in an ambush. Each time they moved from the riverside to come to the hilltop we would allow them to pass through us. They were going to the riverside, they would fall into our ambush, we would kill some of this them and run away.

    That is what we did from June up to 24 December. Then they left the hillside, the hilltop, and came back down the riverside, but they did not cross over. They were deployed on the Sierra Leonean end under some mango trees. That was where they deployed and up to now they are there. In fact that had become a problem between the Sierra Leonean government and the Guinean government because they are alleging that that was their place so they will never go across. So that's a diplomatic issue now. They are on that now for them to go over. Up to now as I am speaking they are there.

  • Thank you, Mr Witness. Now, Mr Witness, you told us about Rashid Sandy that you saw in this meeting in Buedu. Now when did you see Rashid Sandy again after that meeting?

  • Well, I saw Rashid Sandy in another meeting. I saw him in two meetings. There was another meeting. When this pressure - as a result of this pressure, Sam Bockarie summoned a meeting of front line commanders, adjutants and clerks. We went there. Everybody explained the pressure that he was encountering on the front line. We went to this meeting and I met Rashid Sandy there again. After that meeting I saw Rashid Sandy in 1999. He himself summoned a meeting. Rashid Sandy, as an acting general --

  • Your Honours, can the witness kindly repeat Rashid Sandy's position.

  • Mr Witness, you are going too quickly for the interpreter. Please go more slowly and go back to where you said, "Rashid Sandy, as an acting general", now continue from there, please.

  • I am sorry, my Lord, yes. I saw him at two meetings. One meeting that Sam Bockarie called for front line commanders and their clerks, all the front line commanders explained what the situation was on the front lines. He himself, him Rashid Sandy, called a meeting for all adjutants and all clerks. After we had captured Kono and had advanced, there was a mass promotion. People started promoting themselves to ranks that was not with the approval of the CDS, or the GSO, so he called that meeting. There were disputes in the revolution, so he called that meeting and addressed all adjutants and all clerks, because there were some commanders who were illiterate. They were not literate. So the adjutants and clerks were preparing documents and writing promotions for some soldiers who were not supposed to carry such promotions. So he called that meeting and advised and advised. Then he did a memo as to how people should attain a promotion in the rank and file of the position where you were. So it was at that time that I saw Rashid Sandy again.

  • Thank you, Mr Witness. Just to clarify, you spoke about a CDS and a GSO. Again, what does CDS stand for?

  • Chief of defence staff.

  • And who was the chief of defence staff at the time of that meeting?

  • It was Sam Bockarie.

  • And then you spoke about a GSO. What does GSO stand for?

  • GSO1. It was a unit that was for all combatants. He worked with the chief of defence staff. They made approvals of all deployment of soldiers, or approval for soldiers for promotion, or assignment. It was the GSO who prepared that, signed and the CDS approved, or the GSO - the CDS sent instructions to him for him to make assignments for somebody, then he will do that, but those were not happening any longer. The adjutants and the clerks were promoting soldiers without the consent of those two personnel.

  • Now, GSO1, was it known by another name at that time?

  • Yes, in fact we were not used to calling them GSO1. We were saying G1 in short. We called them G1 in short.

  • Now, Mr Witness, I want to come back to the first meeting that you talked about and you said that Sam Bockarie summoned a meeting for the front line commanders, the adjutant and the clerks. When did Sam Bockarie summon that meeting?

  • He called that meeting in Buedu in 1998. It was at that time that he called the meeting when we went and met him. So when everybody had explained his situation - in fact it was at that time that he said that it looks like he himself should go, he himself should go and meet Charles Taylor to explain to him that that was the situation that was on the ground. By then that was - at that time we were approaching the end of 1998, October/November, around November, early November. It was at that time. I can remember that time, because when he went it was not too long. He left CO Issa in charge as acting CDS. It was then that the 4th Battalion in Koindu, we received our promotions approved by CO Issa. At that time Sam Bockarie was not there. He had gone to Liberia to meet Charles Taylor.

  • Mr Witness, you said that, "At that time he said that it looks like he himself should go." Who said that?

  • Sam Bockarie himself, that he himself should go, after he had got all the situation reports from the various front lines, like Koindu was serious, Kono issued there was an attempt on Kono, but they were unable to capture Kono because RUF had run out of ammunition. They were unable to get Kono and we still needed Kono. So he, Sam Bockarie, said he himself should go and meet Charles Taylor so that he would discuss with him to be able to explain to him what the pressure was. It was at that time that Sam Bockarie went.

  • And how do you know that Sam Bockarie in that meeting said that?

  • I was at the meeting. I myself was at that meeting when he was saying that.

  • Now, Mr Witness, you said that it was a front line commanders' meeting. Who else, if you can remember, was in the meeting?

  • Like there was one front line commander whom we called CO Eagle. He was at that meeting. The 2nd Brigade commanders came, like Superman also came at that meeting. Hi-Rash too was at that meeting. Augustine Gbao was at that meeting. Front line commanders of the various areas also came at that meeting.

  • Mr Witness, Eagle, who was Eagle?

  • Eagle was a junior commando. That was his nickname. He was a junior commando. He was a tall man. He was a front line commander.

  • Now, you told us previously about another meeting, the important meeting where there were Ibrahim and Jungle. Where was Eagle during that meeting?

  • Eagle too was at that meeting. I said it that so many commanders came, but I can't recall their names, but as I go along I can recall some of their names. But Eagle too was at that meeting because he was an important man in the revolution.

  • Thank you, Mr Witness. Now, you told us about another meeting which was chaired by Hi-Rash and which was to address the adjutant and clerks and then you said that there was a written document to the adjutant and clerks. How did you know about this written document?

  • The written document - he prepared a memo, a written memo document, where he stated the rank and files. If somebody was in this position, this was the type of rank you should get. If you were this, this is the rank you should get. That was the type of list he prepared and gave it to us, the adjutants, that this was what we should carry, that we should not promote anybody if that person had not attained that position. That is what I mean.

  • And did you see that document yourself?

  • Yes, sir, he gave it to me. He gave me a copy.

  • And who gave you a copy?

  • Hi-Rash gave me that copy. He came with another assistant. They came together at that meeting, when they summoned us to that meeting. We called him TTK. He too was an adjutant, but his name was Tamba T Karimu. We used to call him TTK for short. Both of them chaired that meeting for us. He was there, he too was there, Tamba himself. He used to call him TTK.

  • Your Honour, Karimu would be K-A-R-I-M-U:

  • Now, Mr Witness, you told us before that, or yesterday, that you in 1998 - and I am referring to page 11019, line 7 to 8 of the transcript of yesterday. You said that you used to go to Sam Bockarie's house in Buedu. You said that you will go to Shabado's place, at Sam Bockarie's place, where Shabado and others were. Now, Mr Witness, how many times in 1998 did you go to Sam Bockarie's house in Buedu?

  • Well, I used to go there. Whenever I came from Koindu to my family, especially to my wife, because she was in Buedu, when I get there - just as I have said earlier, when I got to Buedu, if I arrived at night, in the morning I will go and greet him. He, Sam Bockarie. Whenever I went to Buedu I will go to him to greet him. I can't recall, but I went there more than three or four times, each time I went to Buedu.

  • In 1998 what, if anything, can you remember happening in Sam Bockarie's house?

  • At one time, at the time when we were in Koindu during that fighting, I came. I took two days leave. At that time the pressure was a little less. It had taken two or three days and there was no bombardment, or shooting. I took two or three days leave from my commander, Harris, to go to my wife. So I came from Koindu in the evening and arrived at night, so in the morning, around 10 to 11, I went to the ground. Just like I said, we called Sam Bockarie's place the ground. So I went to the ground to him, to him Sam Bockarie, but when I went I came from the back. I used the back. The other securities were there, his wives, the other family members, the bodyguards were all at the back there cooking. I greeted them. They asked me about Koindu, they said, "How are the Guineans? They are not coming?", and I said, "No, mama, they are not coming." I said, "We have blocked them." I said, "They are not coming. We have set an ambush these days and we have killed some them and they have stopped."

    So I passed through the living room and went into the veranda. When I went there I met him sitting on the veranda, he and some of the senior RUF vanguards. Shabado was standing close to him and I met Sam Bockarie counting some money, dollars. He had a list and had written some items on a list and had counted the money, and I just met him giving that money to Shabado telling him to go to the Guinea riverside because we were doing - we were trading with the Guineans on the other side of the river, by the Kailahun side. From Buedu there was a road going to Dia. There was another town that we called Dia that leads to the riverside. Some trading was - we were doing trading there with the Guineans, but it was only smuggle. The Guineans will come, they will bring goods across the river and they will put them in the canoe and they will cross over to us. We took along palm oil, cocoa, coffee and money, if you had money you will take it along. We would take palm oil along and we would exchange it. It was a barter system. We would sell to them and they would give us salt, clothing, Maggi or rice, if you had your palm oil. If you had money you will buy.

    So, I met - he had prepared a list. He, Sam Bockarie, he had some dollar bills in his hand and he had given that to Shabado and he was telling Shabado to go quickly to the riverside and he told him that he was in urgent need of those things. He told him to go by Baiama because there was another road by Baiama which a short cut. He told him that he should go and buy those items quickly.

    So I greeted Shabado and he told me, "Abor, you have met me en route." So I greeted Sam Bockarie, I gave him the courtesies and they were all concentrating on me because each time they saw somebody from Koindu they became concerned because they said Koindu was under pressure. They asked me how Koindu was, "Is it quiet now?" I said yes. I told them, "Yes, we set an ambush and they fell in the ambush and we killed and captured some arms from them." And he said, "Very good." He said, "Those men, that's what you should do. If you attack them you will not be able to overpower them. You should use ambushes."

    So he was sitting, after we had spoken he had a white paper and he had --

  • Your Honours, can the witness kindly repeat this last bit and slowly.

  • Mr Witness, again you have speeded up and we need you to repeat part of your answer. Please pick up where you said, "He was sitting, after we had spoken he had a white paper" and break it at the end of each sentence so that the interpreter can keep up with you, please.

  • I am sorry, my Lord.

  • It's just I do stammer and sometimes I just speed up. I am sorry, my Lord. It is not intentional.

  • We appreciate that. Don't worry. Pick up again, as I said, where you had said, "We had spoken, he had a white paper".

  • The white paper was folded and it was on the stool. After I had explained to him how we and the Guineans had fought he said, "It is this material business that is worrying me." He said, "I am trying to go to Charles Taylor." Then he took this paper, diamonds were in it and he said stones were in it, he called it stones. He said, "I am taking these stones to the Father", because we called Charles Taylor the Father. That was how we used to call him by code, the Father. He said, "These are the stones I am taking to the Father for me to go and get some materials quickly for us to launch a big offensive on those men and to take back Kono." He said, "Just hold tight" and he said, "I am coming. When I come we will go, we will launch an offensive." Then I thanked him. We all sat down, they brought food and we ate together and I bid them farewell and I went back to my house where I was.

  • Now, Mr Witness, first you spoke about the money that Sam Bockarie had and you mentioned dollar bills. How do you know that it was dollar bills?

  • I know dollar. When I see it I will know it is a dollar bill. It is a dollar bill. It was not a Sierra Leonean money. Sierra Leone money is different from a dollar. It's different from Guinean francs. I know Guinean francs because I had traded at that riverside. I know Guinean francs, I know the Sierra Leonean money and I know dollar. I know American dollar and I know Liberian dollar too. But it was the American dollars that I am talking about.

  • Did you see the actual notes?

  • Yes, sir. They were hundred dollar notes that I saw in his hand that he gave to Shabado. He gave Shabado the hundred dollar bills. I saw it written on it a hundred dollars. I saw it being given to Shabado and he folded it and he put the money in his pocket and the list and then he went.

  • Now at that time when you were in Kailahun District where was it possible to get $100 bills?

  • Just pause, Mr Witness. Mr Anyah?

  • I am objecting. The question calls for speculation. There is also no foundation. There are any number of countries where somebody at that particular time could get a hundred dollar bill and some foundation has to be established irrespective of the specific focus on Kailahun Town or whatever the question - Kailahun District. There has to be some foundation that the witness's knowledge base encompassed all the possibilities.

  • Your Honour, the witness lived - his testimony is that he was there at that time and he may well know. That is the reason why I am asking how can it be --

  • Well, he said he knew the difference between Guinean francs, dollar bills, Liberian dollars, but he did not indicate or there is no foundation as to where he knew the American dollars were coming from. So I would uphold that objection and you require some more foundation, Mr Werner.

  • Mr Witness, to your knowledge where did the RUF get the US dollar bills?

  • Being that we were doing diamond transactions with Charles Taylor in Liberia, sometimes Sam Bockarie will go and ask for physical cash to come and buy some items at the riverside, those that we think we can get from the Guinean riverside so that we won't have that burden to bring a heavy load, but only ammunition and other important things that we should come with. The things like cigarettes, cigarette cartons, Maggi, we will buy them from the Guinean riverside. We used to buy a cigarette called Ronson. That is where we used to buy that by cartons. So he will bring the dollars with him so he will send to that riverside for them to be bought there.

  • You said, Mr Witness, that Sam Bockarie asked for cash. From whom did he ask for cash?

  • He will ask for cash from Charles Taylor because he was the one to whom he took diamonds. He used to ask for cash from him.

  • Now what, if anything, did Shabado tell you about these dollar bills?

  • You are asking about Shabado, Mr Werner?

  • Yes, because the witness said that Sam Bockarie gave the dollar bills to Shabado and that Shabado folded the dollar bills and put it in his trousers and the witness said before that he was very close with Shabado:

  • So, Mr Witness, what if anything did Shabado tell you about the US dollar bills?

  • That particular morning when I met Sam Bockarie giving Shabado that money and the list, as soon as he gave him the money and he had put it in his pocket together with the list he just tapped my back and said, "Abor, I am coming." He said, "You have met me going to the riverside." That was all we spoke about and then he went through the living room and went. I stayed on the veranda together with Sam Bockarie and others. We did not talk except apart from that morning.

  • Now you told us about Sam Bockarie displaying diamonds. Now where were you when Sam Bockarie displayed diamonds exactly?

  • When I went to him that morning in the veranda, to him Sam Bockarie. That is what I am referring to. When he gave that money - when Sam Bockarie gave that money to Shabado and when he went it was that morning that I was with them. It was at that time that he took that paper in which diamonds were and he showed them to me that, "These stones were the ones I am trying to take to the Father."

  • And who else was present when he said that?

  • I am sorry, counsel, I apologise. I apologise, Madam President. I would be grateful to know the time frame when this occurred. I may have missed it.

  • I don't think we have got a date for this, Mr Werner. I don't recall it.

  • I will clarify that with the witness:

  • Mr Witness, when did you see Sam Bockarie on the veranda with the diamonds?

  • It was in 1998 before that big offensive that was to take place in Kono on the Bunumbu-Segbwema axis. It was before that time, 1998.

  • Again, Mr Witness, when that happened who else, if anyone, was present in the veranda?

  • Yes, he had some senior RUF vanguards who were sitting with him like - there was a man called Edwin Collins. He was a PRO. He was the PRO for the RUF. He was on that veranda that morning.

    Even some civilians, because in the morning some civilians, elderly people, whom we called Papay, they used to go and greet Sam Bockarie. They used to go and greet him. If he had rice and some things like cigarettes he will give that to the Pas. They used to come every morning, those Papays. We used to call them Papays and the old women. They used to come and greet him in the morning. They will come there to greet him. So they too were sitting down in that veranda.

  • Mr Witness, you spoke about a Collins. Again, what would be the first name?

  • Edwin. Edwin. Edwin.

  • Now, Mr Witness, yesterday you told us - I am referring to page 10953, lines 14 and 15, of the transcript of yesterday. You told us that you after the training you took in Joikoya you were promoted to second lieutenant and then you were reassigned to the Kenema bypass. Now in 1998 at the time Harris Momoh was in charge in Koindu what was your rank?

  • At that time I was a captain.

  • And how long did you remain a captain?

  • I was a captain from - I had become a captain --

  • Your Honours, can he repeat the name of the mission?

  • Mr Witness, the interpreter did not hear the name of the mission clearly. Please repeat the name of the mission.

  • So when there was the crack force mission, what was your rank then?

  • When we left Peyama I was the second lieutenant when we went for the crack force mission in Kailahun. So immediately after the crack force mission when we overran the enemies I was promoted to captain. I was in that position as captain until AFRC overthrow.

  • And then what happened in 1998 in regard to your rank, if anything?

  • Well, when we were in Koindu fighting it was at that time that the promotion came for us when Harris went as battalion commander and I was acting as adjutant. Then CO Issa approved our promotion in rank and he sent - in fact he called. He called and we went for it in Koindu - I mean in Buedu. I went to receive it, the papers, and brought them to Koindu and gave them to my commander, Colonel Harris. He himself, at the time that I went to Koindu, he was a major at that time. So the promotion came for him to become lieutenant colonel, Lieutenant Colonel Harris of that battalion. So I was there from captain to major, as battalion adjutant and the rest of the manpower in the 4th Battalion. I distributed that all over to those who were promoted. I gave them their slips, because it was written on a slip. It was prepared on a slip of paper from CO Issa signed as acting CDS.

  • We have two minutes, Mr Werner.

  • Thank you, your Honour:

  • And again CDS, Mr Witness. What does CDS mean?

  • I think we have had that already.

  • Now, Mr Witness, you said that you went to Buedu and you received the papers. What did you mean when you said that you received the papers?

  • The promotion slips that CO Issa had approved, he called us for them and I went and received them. The ranks that we were given, the promotion and assignment slips, those are the ones I went to receive from him for the 4th Battalion.

  • I think we are just about up to time, Mr Werner, so if this is a convenient time to adjourn?

  • It is, your Honour.

  • Mr Witness, we are now going to take the mid-morning adjournment and we will have a break from 11.30 until 12. Please adjourn court until 12 o'clock.

  • [Break taken at 11.30 a.m.]

  • [Upon resuming at 12.00 p.m.]

  • Yes, Madam President. I just rise to advise the Chamber of the departure of Mr Terry Munyard.

  • Thank you. Mr Werner, please proceed.

  • Thank you, Madam President. Before we move forward, I just would like to clarify one matter of spelling and I will ask the witness. For reference it is off the transcript this morning on my screen on 16 would be - the first one would be page 48, lines 20/21, and it reads, "We were trading with the Guineans on the other side of the river by the Kailahun side from Buedu. There was a road going to ...", and what is written is "Dee what":

  • Mr Witness, at the time you went to trade with the Guineans and then you said that "... on the other side of the river by the Kailahun side. From Buedu there was a road going to ...", which location?

  • Dia.

  • We would spell that, your Honour, D-I-A, Dia. Now, the second one would be at page 49, line 9 and line 10, "Sam Bockarie told Shabado to go by ...", and it is written "Baiama". Sorry, then it carries on and says, "There was another road by Baiama which is a shortcut." Mr Witness, do you remember the location when you said that Sam Bockarie told Shabado to go by which place?

  • Baiima.

  • And we would spell that, your Honour, B-A-I-M-A [sic]:

  • Mr Witness, which spelling then would you give for Baiama?

  • We have this spelling then:

  • Now, Mr Witness, you told us just before we left off that there was promotion slips that CO Issa had approved. What did you mean when you said that CO Issa had approved?

  • I meant that he signed on it as acting chief of defence staff. That was what I meant by approved.

  • And then just before the break you said, "I was there from captain to major as battalion adjutant", so your promotion to major as battalion adjutant was it written on that slip of paper?

  • Mr Witness, what did you do with that piece of paper?

  • Well it was my personal paper that I was to use wherever I went to prove that I was a major, so if anybody was in doubt I should just take out that paper to show to somebody that I had a document to prove that I was a major. So, that was why I kept it. It was with me.

  • And after the war what happened to that paper?

  • Well the paper was in my wallet, the one that I was using. It was there all along. Even now I have it. It has been there all along.

  • Your Honours, at that stage we would request the witness to be shown the document behind tab 20. Now, we have provided a better coloured copy of that document and I believe that everybody should have that better copy:

  • Mr Witness, do you recognise that document?

  • What is that document?

  • It is the promotion slip that I was referring to that CO Issa signed as acting chief of defence staff when I got the promotion as major and I was assigned as adjutant.

  • Now, do you see there is a signature on that document. Can you recognise that signature?

  • Yes, sir.

  • What is that signature?

  • It is CO Issa's signature.

  • Now after the name of "Colonel Issa H Sesay" there is "AG". What does that stand for?

  • There is CDS in brackets. Again what does that stand for?

  • Chief of defence staff.

  • Your Honour, we would request that that copy would be marked for identification and it will be MFI-17.

  • That's a one page document headed "Revolutionary United Front of Sierra Leone." It is dated 19 /11/98. It is MFI-17.

  • Thank you, your Honour:

  • Now, Mr Witness, you told us about some meetings in Buedu in 1998. If any, which other meeting in Buedu can you remember?

  • Well, I can remember another meeting after Sam Bockarie had gone to Liberia and returned, around the time CO Issa gave us these promotions. At that time Sam Bockarie was not there, he had gone to Liberia. The time he showed me those diamonds, that he was going to the father to discuss with him relating to the situation about the Kono incident, to take Kono.

    So when he returned at that time we were still in Koidu and when Sam Bockarie came he convened a general meeting at Waterworks, but I did not attend the meeting when I was in Koindu because at that time we were under some pressure from the enemies in Koindu, so I was not able to attend that meeting. But I went to Buedu the day after the meeting and I heard about the meeting and what the meeting was about. That's how I knew about it, what happened in Buedu, the meeting at Waterworks, Buedu.

  • What year did that meeting take place, Mr Witness?

  • The meeting took place after we had this promotion, after my promotion, this November '98 promotion. That meeting, I think it took place in '99. Early '99, I think so, because it was after my promotion anyway, because at that time we were in Koindu when that meeting was convened.

  • Now you said that you went there in Buedu and you said that you heard about the meeting. What did you hear about that meeting?

  • When I went - the day after the meeting when I went to Buedu, just as usual when I will go I will go to my wife that night and the following morning I went to the ground to CO Mosquito's place on his ground and I met his bodyguards Shabado with the others who were there, Ray. At that time Ray was in Buedu. He too had come from Koindu and gone Buedu. When I went I met them there. They told me, "Abor, why didn't you come for the meeting?" I said, "You know that we had some problem there and I was part of the fighting." That was what I called problem. There was some pressure, those men wanted to advance and I said, "But we burnt down one of their war tanks from them, but we thought they would still attempt to advance on us so we were on a strong defensive, but we heard about the meeting so what was the meeting about?"

    So Shabado, Ray and some other men explained to me that Master had come. They said he had come with ammo, a lot of ammo, and in fact he, Eddie Kanneh and others had come. One AFRC strong man who was called Eddie Kanneh, they said he came together with them. They said they went to Liberia to the father and the Pa - they crossed Liberia and they went to Burkina Faso and when they came from Burkina Faso they came back with a lot of ammunition and arms, and when they came back they were even drawing plans for --

  • Your Honours, can the witness slow down and repeat.

  • Mr Witness, you are going too fast again. You have speeded up. Please go back to where you said, "They came back with a lot of ammunition and arms and when they came back they were even drawing plans ..." Continue from there, speak slowly for the interpreter. Please proceed.

  • So Shabado and others told me that they had drawn a war plan in the meeting. A lot of people attended the meeting. They said almost all the front line commanders attended. He said, "You were the only people that we did not see, but then we understand that you had some pressure on you." He said they had drawn a war plan to go and attack Kono and Segbwema, Bunumbu-Segbwema axis simultaneously and that they were arranging for those men to go their own ammunition. I said, "How about the meeting? Who were the people attending the meeting?" They told me that Colonel Jungle was present and in fact Eddie Kanneh and CO Mosquito were there, the two of them came from the mission, that's the trip that they made to Liberia and Burkina Faso. They said the two of them came back. They said Colonel Jungle was there, General Ibrahim himself was there and Abu Keita and some other Liberians. He said all of them were there. In fact he said Abu Keita was to be with us for the mission. They said they had come. He said --

  • Just pause, Mr Witness. First you talk - once you spoke about the Master, that Master came. Who did you refer to when you said Master?

  • Sam Bockarie. I had said it once or twice here in this Court that we used to call Sam Bockarie Master, so any time I use Master I will be referring to Sam Bockarie. Then Father, we used to call Charles Taylor the Father. So at times - I am still used to calling him that way, that's why. So they said they had come and they had drawn the plan and there was a big offensive at hand in the 2nd and 1st Brigades. Then he said, "Maybe they will even have to call you for reinforcement."

  • Mr Werner, I think your witness has strayed far away from your question.

  • Yes, thank you, your Honour:

  • You mentioned Eddie Kanneh, you said he was an AFRC strong man. What else, if anything, were you told about Eddie Kanneh at that time?

  • They said Eddie Kanneh and Sam Bockarie went to Liberia, right up to when they went to Burkina Faso and the two of them returned from Liberia into Sierra Leone, the two of them were in the meeting.

  • Mr Witness, just try, if you can, to answer my question. What else about Eddie Kanneh himself? You said he was an AFRC strong man --

  • Mr Werner, the question you asked the witness was, "What did you hear about the meeting?" Now I personally am lost. All this evidence he is giving, is it a precursor to the meeting or is this something that happened in the meeting? There are like two big paragraphs, I don't know what they relate to. Certainly they don't appear to relate to the question you asked, "So what did you hear at this meeting?"

  • Your Honour, the witness said that he was not at the meeting.

  • Yes, your Honour.

  • The answers he gives I do not think are related to what he heard about the meeting.

  • So, Mr Witness, if you can set your mind to exactly what Shabado told you - Shabado and the other bodyguards told you about what happened in this meeting. Can you tell us just at that time when you went there what were you told about that meeting?

  • The bodyguards told me about the meeting, that Master and others had come, Master and Eddie Kanneh - I meant Sam Bockarie, they had come from Liberia with a lot of ammunition. So they called up for a meeting and so all front line commanders and senior vanguards were there at the meeting. They welcomed them and they explained how they travelled, where they went and how they had come and even the materials that they brought. They explained that in the meeting.

  • Just pause there, Mr Witness. Who explained that in the meeting, how they had travelled? Who explained that, according to what you were told?

  • It was Sam Bockarie who was giving the report about how their trip was, what they went to do and what they had brought. That's what he was telling me. He said but there were a lot of dignitaries present in a meeting, even SYB Rogers, the War Council chairman, was present. The front line commanders too were in attendance. Then the Liberian government representative. He said Colonel Jungle and General Ibrahim were in the meeting. All of them were in the meeting together with Abu Keita. They called the name of a man called Abu Keita. He too came from Liberia, this Abu Keita.

    They said Sam Bockarie explained about how they travelled, what they brought, whatever transpired during the trip and SYB Rogers, the War Council chairman, thanked them in his address whilst he was addressing the meeting and some other senior officers also spoke, like Morris Kallon. CO Issa too spoke and thanked them and they drew a war plan, how they were to attack Kono and Bunumbu-Segbwema.

  • Pause there. You said that you were told about what they had brought. What did you mean? What was discussed according to what you were told? What was discussed in the meeting about anything being brought? Can you tell that again?

  • They brought arms and ammunition, RPG rocket, the bombs. They brought a lot of those for the missions that was consistent with the war plans that they had drawn for Kono and Kenema. Those are the materials. They said they brought a lot of them.

  • Mr Witness, several times you said that they had drawn a war plan. What were you told about this war plan? How drew the war plan?

  • It was Sam Bockarie together with the other senior officers like Issa, Morris Kallon and others. They drew how the attack should go on, who should go to Kono and who should go to Kenema. They divided the officers and from that meeting everybody should go straight to his location where he had been assigned. You should go with your materials and start your attack.

  • Now you mentioned someone called Abu Keita. Who was Abu Keita?

  • Abu Keita was a Liberian fighter who came, whom they said came. They said he too was present at the meeting and they said he, Abu Keita, was to be part of the mission to go and attack.

  • Were you told anything about who had sent Abu Keita to Sierra Leone?

  • I am objecting to the leading in the question.

  • Yes, it is leading, Mr Werner. Rephrase it.

  • Mr Witness, what, if anything, were you told about who had sent Abu Keita to Sierra Leone?

  • It is exactly the same. It is leading. It implies somebody sent him. How do we know he didn't walk on his own.

  • Mr Witness, what else were you told about Abu Keita, if anything?

  • Shabado and others told me that Abu Keita came together with Colonel Jungle and others, that he came for that fight. That his axis was to go by Bunumbu-Segbwema end, 1st Brigade. That was his deployment area that he should go when he will go on the offensive, Abu Keita. He came together with Colonel Jungle and General Ibrahim according to Shabado and others. That was what they told me in Buedu.

  • Now, Mr Witness, you said that those men had to go to their own ammunition, so you told us that Issa Sesay was in the meeting. If you know, where did Issa Sesay go after that meeting?

  • The 2nd Brigade was Issa Sesay's deployment. He should go to the Kono end. They went to Kono, 2nd Brigade.

  • And if you know, who else went to Kono to the 2nd Brigade?

  • Superman, he too was in Kono. All of them went there. PB Vandy - all of them went with the 2nd Brigade to attack Kono.

  • Now, Mr Witness, if you know - you told us about several meetings in Buedu. Who, if anyone, was in charge of taking the minutes of those meetings?

  • Objection. It is a compound question in the sense that counsel has to lay foundation as to each meeting and who was present and who took the minutes.

  • Mr Werner, we have heard about two meetings this morning. There has been a reference to other meetings. Which are you referring to?

  • Yes, I will rephrase, your Honour:

  • Mr Witness, you told us this morning about a meeting between Buedu and Dawa, do you remember that?

  • And you referred to it as a secret meeting. Now, you said you were in this meeting. At that meeting who, if anyone, was in charge of taking minutes of that meeting?

  • Well, we had the security unit like the IDU that we refer to as the Joint Security. The IDU were taking minutes. The IO too could take minutes and they will put them together and they will submit the minutes.

  • Now, you told about - you just mentioned the Joint Security. What were the Joint Security?

  • It was the various security units like the IO, the IDU. All of these were security units. Put together they had one head called - there was a man who was heading it and all of those securities will report to him and he will compile the reports and send it to where he was supposed to send it.

  • Mr Witness, it is not very clear. I asked you about the Joint Security and you said that it was the various security units like the IO and the IDU. What did you mean when you said that?

  • The IO was a separate branch and the IDU was another separate branch, but they were all security units and so when they would have taken their individual reports they will give the report to their commanders and the commanders will come together and compile it. That was what we called Joint Security. So, the Joint Security had one commander. The Joint Security commander was there. He will eventually compile a final report of any meeting that was going on.

  • And at the time of that meeting who, if anyone, did you know working with the Joint Security?

  • Like the Joint Security was one of the junior commandos, but he was a senior man. We called him Sheku Coomber. We knew he was responsible for that because he was the one reporting to Little Pa Sankoh, or to Sam Bockarie. He was the Joint Security commander that we knew, Sheku Coomber.

  • Did the witness say "Little Pa Sankoh"? I thought I heard him say that. That is what is recorded.

  • Mr Witness, you said that Sheku Coomber was reporting to whom?

  • To Pa Sankoh, or Sam Bockarie. I did not say "little".

  • Sorry, your Honours:

  • Mr Witness, do you know how to spell Sheku Coomber?

  • S-H-E-K-U Sheku, Coomber C-O-O-M-B-E-R. That is how he spelt his Coomber.

  • Now when you were in this secret meeting who, if anyone, took the minutes of that meeting?

  • It was the Joint Security. They took the minutes.

  • Now, you told us about another meeting in Buedu with the front line commanders and Sam Bockarie in 1998 that you attended. Who, if anyone, took minutes of that meeting?

  • There was an adjutant when we went on that meeting with the front line commanders. The minutes of the meeting were taken by an adjutant.

  • And do you recall his name?

  • Do you recall the name of the person from the Joint Security who took the minutes in the secret meeting?

  • No.

  • Now, Mr Witness, after you went to Buedu and you were told by Shabado about that meeting, what happened to you? What did you do?

  • Well after that I went back to my ground in Koindu, because I had just come from Koindu when I got that information. From there I returned to Koindu.

  • And then what, if anything, happened at that time after you returned to Koindu?

  • Well we heard that the offensive had started, that the 2nd Brigade had gone and they have had their own meeting on their own ground how to go on the attack, who was to go this way, the others who were to go - use the bypass and the others who were to go to the main road, so when you went to your own ground you were to arrange how you were to launch the attack on the enemies. So, the 2nd Brigade went back and had their own meeting. The 1st Brigade went and they too had their own meeting how to launch the attack.

  • Now you told us that you were in a battalion of the 1st Brigade, so how did you learn about what happened with the 2nd Brigade when they went to Kono?

  • Well the 2nd Brigade in fact they were the first to start their offensive and they were the first to be successful, so the news spread that Kono jungle had been captured and so we knew that as soon as they went they didn't waste time. They just went ahead. We knew there was a radio in Kono. They used to send radio message as they captured, so the message went all over that they had succeeded in capturing Kono.

  • And when you say "capturing Kono", what are you talking about?

  • The RUF/AFRC attacked Kono and recaptured Kono from the ECOMOG forces.

  • And when you said "Kono", are you talking about a town or a district?

  • The Koidu Town. Koidu Town.

  • Koidu Town. What happened in Koidu Town?

  • Kono District. The main town of Kono District, Koidu.

  • So what happened in Koidu Town, Mr Witness?

  • Just pause, Mr Witness. Mr Anyah?

  • Yes, Madam President. I would be grateful for some time indication. Last we heard was it was in early 1999 when Mohamed Banya was telling the witness about a meeting at Waterworks and since then it is not clear what time frame this is taking place in.

  • Yes, Mr Werner.

  • Can I just clarify the Koidu Town first?

  • Mr Witness, you first said that Kono was captured and then I asked you what you meant and you said Koidu. So, could you clarify for us what did you learn about the 2nd Brigade? What did the 2nd Brigade capture, if anything?

  • It is Koidu Town. They attacked Koidu Town.

  • Now, can you remember the date of the attack by the 2nd Brigade?

  • How long was it after the meeting you were told about by Shabado that you did not attend at in Buedu?

  • It did not take long then they launched the attack, then the 2nd Brigade launched the attack. It did not take long.

  • Now, Mr Witness, what if anything happened in the 1st Brigade after the 2nd Brigade successfully attacked Koidu?

  • Well, the 1st Brigade too we heard that they attacked Bunumbu Teachers College in the Kailahun District, Peje West. They captured it, they advanced and captured Segbwema. They captured there, they advanced and went to Komende Station and they captured it. They advanced. That is on the way to Kenema, the route to Kenema. They went to Jumu Kafabu. Jumu Kafabu too attacked and captured. That too we heard.

  • Now, your Honours, I believe that Segbwema is already in evidence.

  • Komende would be K-O-M-E-N-D-E:

  • Mr Witness, can you help us with Jumu Kafabu?

  • J-U-M-U Jumu, Kafabu K-A-F-A-B-U. Kafabu.

  • Now, Mr Witness, where were you yourself at the time the 1st Brigade attacked Segbwema, Komende and Jumu Kafabu?

  • I was still in Koindu. That was where I was.

  • Now, again could you tell us in which district is Komende?

  • Komende is in the Kenema District.

  • And what about Jumu Kafabu?

  • Jumu Kafabu too is in the Kenema District.

  • Now what if anything - what else, if anything, were you told about this attack on these places by the 1st Brigade?

  • Well after they had reached Jumu Kafabu, when they attacked and captured it Sam Bockarie changed my assignment, I and Colonel Harris. He moved us from Koindu and we went as reinforcement to join them for that mission to attack Kenema. It was at Jumu Kafabu that we met the 1st Brigade troops. That was where they were. We met them there. We passed through Bunumbu, Segbwema, Komende Station and then we went to Jumu Kafabu. That was where we met them. We met - the entire town had been burnt down; the entire Jumu Kafabu. It was a fairly big town. They burnt the entire town, but it had a very big mosque. A very big mosque was there because it was a Muslim dominated area. It was only the mosque that was spared in the town. The entire town was burnt. That was where we met them. From there we joined them and we attacked Kenema.

  • When you said that they burnt the entire town except the mosque, who burnt Jumu Kafabu?

  • RUF 1st Brigade fighters.

  • And at the time you were there who, if anyone, did you see in charge of that offensive for the 1st Brigade?

  • Well, that offensive I met CO Eagle there, this Abu Keita that I was talking about, in fact that was where I saw him, at Jumu Kafabu. That was where I saw him, that Abu Keita that we were talking about, because we went together with Shabado and others. Shabado too went on that attack. All of us attacked Kenema. Eagle was there.

  • Mr Witness, pause. This is not answering the question put, Mr Werner.

  • So I asked you who was in charge of that offensive. Do you know who, if anyone, was in charge, Mr Witness?

  • It was Sam Bockarie himself who was in charge of that Kenema offensive.

  • But on the ground when you went to Jumu Kafabu who, if anyone, was in charge on the ground?

  • It was CO Eagle I met there as commander.

  • Now what happened to you after that, Mr Witness?

  • All of us advanced together and attacked Kenema. We attacked Kenema twice, but we did not succeed in capturing Kenema. The attack failed. It was during this attack that we lost Shabado. It was then that Shabado died, during this attack, and some other few men.

    So the troop withdrew and came to Jumu Kafabu and Komende Station. That was where we stayed. That was where we based. That was where the RUF 1st Brigade stayed and set a defensive.

  • When you say that you tried to attack twice Kenema, are you talking about Kenema Town or Kenema District?

  • Kenema township, Kenema Town.

  • Then you said that you went back to Komende and set a defensive there. So how long did you stay in Komende then?

  • When we withdrew and based in Jumu Kafabu and Komende, Sam Bockarie withdrew some manpower from us. It was Harris who stayed in charge of that area, that battalion. That same Colonel Harris with whom I went. He stayed in charge of the command. We were there until the first disarmament that took place in 2000, in the year 2000.

  • Mr Witness, do you remember the month of July 1999?

  • To your knowledge what, if anything, happened in Sierra Leone in - sorry, what, if anything, happened that you know in July 1999?

  • Well, we were in Komende when we heard that Foday Sankoh and others have gone on the Lome Peace Accord in Lome. That's what I know, that they have gone to sign the peace with the Sierra Leone government in Lome.

  • To your knowledge where did Foday Sankoh go after Lome?

  • Well, from the time he signed the peace accord we heard that the Sierra Leone government has given him a position. So he came down to Freetown and became the minister of mines, something - I think a minister of mines and mineral resources in the Sierra Leone government, so he came to Freetown. That was where he was.

  • Where was he staying in Freetown when he came to Freetown, Mr Witness?

  • Well, it was at Hill Station. There was a ground called Mansion Ground at Hill Station. That was where he was based in Freetown.

  • What, if anything, did you learn about the people staying with Foday Sankoh at that time?

  • I have not been objecting to the leading questions although the counsel uses the question, "What, if anything." The question assumes people were living with Foday Sankoh.

  • It is leading, Mr Werner, despite your attempts to soften it.

  • Mr Witness, you told us before about a commander called Jackson Swarray, do you remember?

  • In 1999 when you were in Komende Station on the defensive where was Jackson Swarray, if you know?

  • Jackson Swarray was in the Kono jungle. He was in Kono at the 2nd Brigade.

  • How long did he stay there, Mr Witness?

  • He was at the 2nd Brigade until the time that Foday Sankoh signed the Lome Peace Accord and he came to Freetown. It was then that he called him, because he was the Black Guard commander. Then he came to him in Freetown together with some Black Guard securities.

  • So who came to him to Freetown, Mr Witness?

  • Jackson Swarray, the Black Guard commander.

  • And he came to whom?

  • He came to Foday Sankoh. He went to Foday Sankoh in Freetown because it was Foday Sankoh who called him, Jackson Swarray, because he was his Black Guard commander, so he went there with other Black Guard securities. All of them were there at the Mansion Ground with him.

  • How did you learn about that, Mr Witness?

  • Well, we were in Komende and we used to get them over the radio. Foday Sankoh used to talk to us over the radio when he was in Freetown, that he was there and he had signed the Lome Peace Accord. In fact he told us that he was to come to Segbwema to us and indeed he came, he and the ECOMOG field commander General Opande, they came to Segbwema and we went and received them in Segbwema, he Foday Sankoh and General Opande. They came to Segbwema together with Jackson Swarray and others. So we saw all of them in Segbwema.

  • Now, Mr Witness, you said that Jackson Swarray came to Foday Sankoh in Freetown together with some Black Guard securities. To your knowledge who were these Black Guard securities who at that time went to Foday Sankoh in Freetown?

  • Well, I can remember the ones Foday Sankoh came with to Segbwema, like Gbessay Ngobeh. He Jackson Swarray, Augustine G Pyne, Alicius Alpha, Jaso Brima, Gibril Massaquoi, Eddie Kanneh. We had another whom we called FOC. It was his nickname. That was his nickname, FOC, et cetera.

  • Now I believe you spelt already for this Court yesterday Gbessay Ngobeh. Now, I believe Augustine Pyne is correctly spelt on the transcript. You mentioned an Alpha, Mr Witness. What was the first name of the Alpha you mentioned?

  • Are you able to help us with the spelling?

  • Then you mentioned a Brima. Are you able to help us with the first name of the Brima you mentioned?

  • This Brima, she is a woman, Jaso Brima, J-A-S-O.

  • So you told us that the Black Guard commander and several of the Black Guards went there. What else, if anything, were you told about the people who went there to be with Foday Sankoh?

  • Like Gibril Massaquoi, he was not a Black Guard, but he was there because he was a senior officer. Even Eddie Kanneh was AFRC. He too was there. He was not a Black Guard.

  • I may have missed this, but my understanding of the evidence and the questions posed to the witness a few minutes ago - counsel asked the witness - I am reading from page 79 and I am using a 12 point font. At line 11 the question posed was:

    "You said that some Black Guard securities ... To your knowledge who were these Black Guard securities who at that time went to Foday Sankoh in Freetown?"

    The witness's answer was: "Well, I can remember the ones that Foday Sankoh came with to Segbwema, like Gbessay Ngobeh, he Jackson Swarray, Augustine Pyne", and so on.

    The witness did not answer the question of which Black Guard members joined Foday Sankoh in Freetown. He was responding to the people he saw with Foday Sankoh in Segbwema. When we go down to the question being posed right now, and it is page 80 starting at my line 5 - the question counsel poses is:

    "So you told us that the Black Guard commander and several of the Black Guards went there. What else, if anything, were you told about the people who went there to be with Foday Sankoh?"

    There is a difference between the evidence on record and who was with Foday Sankoh in Segbwema versus who went to Freetown.

  • I will clarify, your Honours.

  • Mr Witness, you told us that Jackson Swarray went to be with Foday Sankoh. Now, to your knowledge, who else went with Jackson Swarray to Foday Sankoh in Freetown?

  • Gbessay Ngobeh was there, FOC, Jaso Brima, Eddie Kanneh, Akim Turay, Soriba Mohamed, Augustine Pyne, Alicius Alpha and others. There were many who were on the ground as securities to Foday Sankoh in Freetown.

  • Now you told us that Eddie Kanneh was AFRC. You mentioned another name Akim Turay. Who was Akim Turay, Mr Witness?

  • Akim Turay too was an AFRC, and Soriba Mohamed, they were AFRC soldiers, but all of them with were there with Foday Sankoh.

  • Your Honours, Soriba Mohamed will be the normal spelling for Soriba which would be S-O-R-I-B-A.

  • Yes, I want to use the bathroom.

  • Please assist the witness. Mr Werner, if you wish to have a seat.

  • Thank you, your Honour.

  • Mr Werner, please proceed.

  • Thank you, Madam President:

  • Now, Mr Witness, you told us that after the offensive of the 1st Brigade you were based in Komende on a defensive. When you were based in Komende what, if anything, did you hear about what was going on in Foya?

  • I have not got that question clearly.

  • When you were in Komende - I will rephrase. When you were in Komende what, if anything, did you hear about what was going on in Lofa County?

  • Well, I heard that rebels had started attacking Lofa County. They called them LURD rebels; that they have started attacking Lofa County area in Liberia.

  • And what else, if anything, did you hear about the LURD rebels?

  • Well, I heard that they were trying to cut out the supply line that was between the RUF and the Liberian Government in that Lofa County area. That was the fighting they were on.

  • And after you heard about the LURD rebels in Lofa County what else, if anything, did you hear about Lofa County?

  • The next thing I heard about was that Sam Bockarie was trying to send some manpower from the RUF to help the Liberian Government fight against the LURD rebels in Lofa County.

  • When you said that he was trying to send, what do you mean?

  • I am not saying he was trying. I said he had already put some manpower together to go there and fight against the LURD rebels in Lofa County.

  • To your knowledge, why did Sam Bockarie send some men to fight in Lofa County?

  • Well as usual there used to be our supply route through Liberia and, if the LURD rebels settled there, then we will not have any supply route to pass through there to go to Liberia in case we needed materials that will come from Liberia.

  • Now, you said that Sam Bockarie sent some men there. To your knowledge, who did Sam Bockarie --

  • He actually said "manpower".

  • Sorry, your Honour. I was trying to look at the - thank you for that, your Honour:

  • You said that Sam Bockarie sent manpower to Lofa County to fight the LURD. Now what, if anything, did you learn about the manpower that Sam Bockarie sent?

  • Well some men went there to fight there, but some of our men died there. They were fighting alongside the Liberian Government soldiers in fighting against the LURD rebels, but some of our men died there.

  • And to your knowledge, who died there fighting alongside the Liberian Government?

  • Well we had some RUF junior commandos that were actually hard fighters, like there was a man that we called CO Komba Gbundema. CO Komba died there. There was another commando that we called Mohamed GMG, because he used to operate a GMG weapon and so he now bear that name, Mohamed GMG, so he also died there. There was another fair in complexion guy who we used to call Karankay. He also died there. I did not know his actual name until his death.

  • Your Honours, I believe that Komba Gbundema is already in evidence and I will ask the witness Mohamed GMG. I think it is a common spelling sort of --

  • I think it is properly recorded on the transcript, Mr Werner.

  • I will ask it just for the witness for Karankar [sic]:

  • Mr Witness, could you help us spelling Karankar?

  • It is not Karankar. It is Karankay.

  • Could you help us with the spelling of Karankay?

  • It is K-A-R-A-N-K-Y - K-A-Y. K-A-R-A-N-K-A-Y, Karankay. That was how we used to spell it. That was his nickname. We called him CO Karankay.

  • Now, Mr Witness, to your knowledge who, if anyone, was in command of the RUF manpower who was sent there?

  • Mr Anyah, I am not sure if you are rising or not?

  • It assumes there was somebody in charge of the RUF command.

  • Put the question, Mr Werner.

  • Who, if anyone, Mr Witness, was in command of the RUF manpower who you said went to Lofa County?

  • Just pause, Mr Werner. Mr Anyah, I have just read what you said properly. I misheard it. You were objecting to a leading question.

  • Yes, Madam President.

  • My apologies. I misheard you. That was a leading question and the objection was not withdrawn. Rephrase the question.

  • So, Mr Witness, to your knowledge what was Komba Gbundema's assignment when you went there to fight, if any?

  • Komba Gbundema was in the north, in the northern jungle. That was where he was. He was fighting there. He was a junior commando and he was a commander. He was there.

  • And you told us that he went to Lofa County to fight, correct?

  • And what, if anything, did you hear about his assignment when he went to Lofa County to fight?

  • Well he led the troops, the manpower that entered into Lofa to fight against the LURD. They were the ones that went.

  • Now, Mr Witness, you told us that you stayed in Komende until the first disarmament. What did you mean when you said the "first disarmament"?

  • Well, two disarmaments took place in Sierra Leone after the Lome Peace Accord. The first one was the one signed by Foday Sankoh. When I said by then he left Komende, that was Foday Sankoh and General Opande. They came to Segbwema to visit us. Foday Sankoh and General Opande came and we received them in Segbwema. He told us about the Lome Peace Accord and he told us that he had gone and signed the Lome Peace Accord and that we should not fire guns any more and that we shouldn't fight and that those of us who were on that axis, very close to Daru and Kailahun, we were the first people who were to start the disarmament to prove to the international community that the peace he had signed he had started implementing it. So, he spoke to us and General Opande also spoke to us and then they went back.

  • Pause, please, Mr Witness. When you say that he told you about the Lome Peace Accord and he told you that he has gone and signed the Lome Peace Accord, who told you about that?

  • Foday Sankoh. It was Foday Sankoh who told us that. After Foday Sankoh and General Opande returned to Freetown at that time the Indian contingent were residing in the Daru barracks, so those of us on the Segbwema axis and Komende Station and Bendu junction we were to go and disarm to the Indian contingent in the Daru barracks. That was where we went and that was the first disarmament that we undertook in the year 2000. That is what I mean.

  • Now what happened to you, Mr Witness, after you disarmed to the Indian contingent in Daru barracks in 2000?

  • Well, after we had disarmed the troops that I had with me at the Komende Station, I withdrew with every one of them and we all went and resided in Segbwema. We were in Segbwema up until the year 2000 and the CDF, that is the Kamajors who were fighting alongside the ECOMOG, they started some pocket resistance around the Segbwema axis in some villages. They started tormenting some RUF men. They will go and run after them and they will be shooting behind them. So we wrote the report from Segbwema and sent it. And at that time it was CO Issa who was based in Kono and he was in charge. At that time CO Mosquito had left the RUF.

  • Now at the time when you said that the CDF and the Kamajors run after some of the RUF and were shooting behind them, at that time where was Foday Sankoh to your knowledge?

  • At that time Foday Sankoh had been arrested. He was in Freetown. That was the time Foday Sankoh was arrested.

  • You said that at that time CO Mosquito had left the RUF. To your knowledge, where was CO Mosquito at that time after he had left the RUF?

  • When CO Mosquito left the RUF territory he did not leave alone. He left with a huge amount of manpower and materials and so many other things and he took everything to Liberia, to Charles Taylor's place. He went to Liberia and settled there with Charles Taylor.

  • How did you learn about that?

  • When he was leaving I was part of the team. I want you to give me just two minutes to explain something. At that time CO Mosquito was causing some problem in the RUF in relation to the Lome Peace Accord.

  • Mr Witness, I am sorry to interrupt you there. I was just asking you about where was CO Mosquito at that time and I think you answered my question and I am just anxious to move forward. Mr Witness, so you told us that when you disarmed Foday Sankoh was in jail and then you said that CO Mosquito --

  • Did he say jail? Sorry, he said he was arrested, he was in Freetown.

  • Yes, he was arrested and Sam Bockarie was not in Sierra Leone any more:

  • Who, if anyone, was in charge at that time of the RUF?

  • It was CO Issa.

  • Then could you carry on, what happened after you had a report that some CDF Kamajors were running after your men and shooting? What happened after that?

  • Well, those of us the RUF who were in Segbwema, including the AFRC who were there with us, we also wrote a report to CO Issa in Kono and we gave him the information, that is CO Issa, that that was the kind of situation with us and that we had already disarmed and since Foday Sankoh had already been disarmed and been arrested in Freetown the Kamajors are now tormenting us here.

    At a point in time CO Issa wrote a letter and gave it to Gbessay Ngobeh and I was in Segbwema when Gbessay Ngobeh brought the letter and in Segbwema also I had a motorcycle. Gbessay Ngobeh gave me the letter and he asked me that CO Issa said I should take the letter to General 50 in Vahun. So I moved from Segbwema and I went to Pendembu, but I passed through there.

  • Just pause there, Mr Witness. At that time when Issa sent Gbessay Ngobeh to you, where was CO Issa located in Kono?

  • He was residing in Koidu Town, the centre of the town. He was based there, CO Issa, at that time.

  • Then you said that CO Issa said that you should take the letter to General 50 in Vahun. First, in which country is Vahun?

  • Vahun is in Liberia.

  • Do you know where in Liberia?

  • I think it is also in the Lofa County because you will have to pass through Bomaru before getting to Vahun. From Bomaru you have to cross the border before you get to Vahun. It is in Lofa County, I think.

  • Then you spoke about a General 50 in Vahun. Who was General 50?

  • Well, he was one of the Liberian government's general who was based there. He was General 50.

  • To your knowledge, what was his real name?

  • I used to hear people call him Benjamin, but I don't know his following name, but I used to hear people call him Benjamin, but it was the 50 that I was more familiar to.

  • So, Mr Witness, what did you do after you got that letter?

  • When Gbessay Ngobeh gave me the letter I moved from Segbwema. I passed through Pendembu. I met an RUF soldier there who was called Prince Kosia. He was an IO. Both of us went on top of the Honda. We went through Baiwala, Bomaru and we entered Vahun. We entered there in the afternoon hours and there we met the ground soldiers who were in Vahun, that is the Liberian soldiers. We met them in Vahun. They had guns with them. They stopped us and we stopped. They asked us --

  • Just pause there, Mr Witness. You said that - first Prince Kosia, would you be able to help us with a spelling for Kosia?

  • It is K-O-S-I-A.

  • Then you said that you went - I believe the witness said on top of the Honda.

  • I must say I couldn't make it out clearly.

  • With Prince Kosia how did you go to Bomaru and the other location that you mentioned which I believe is Baiwala?

  • Could you please clarify. He went on top of the what?

  • Yes.

  • What did you use to move at that time when you went towards Bomaru?

  • An XL 125 motorbike, a red and white colour motorbike.

  • Then where did you go with that Honda, Mr Witness?

  • Myself and Prince Kosia, we went to Vahun to General 50 and we entered Vahun. We met the soldiers there. They stopped us and we stopped, Prince Kosia and I, and the soldiers asked us - those soldiers, the Liberian soldiers who we met there, and we told them that it was CO Issa who sent us to General 50 to bring a letter. By then I had given the letter to Prince because I was riding the bike and Prince took out the letter and we showed them.

    They pointed the house to us. In fact one led us to the place. He said, "Gentlemen, let's go" and we followed him and then he took us to General 50. Luckily for us we met him sitting down playing music. There was a tape recorder close to him and he was listening to it, 50. We went, myself and Kosia, we met General 50. We greeted him and he answered us. We took out the letter and we gave it to him and we told him, "We are from Sierra Leone, it is CO Issa who sent us and CO Issa said we should bring this letter to you" and we gave him the letter.

  • When was that? When did that happen, if you can remember?

  • That was in the year 2000.

  • Please continue, Mr Witness. What happened after that?

  • And he, General 50, gave us chairs and we sat down. He is a short man. I gave him the letter. I gave the letter to General 50 and he opened the letter. He read it and he closed it again and he said, "Okay, gentlemen, we will have to pass the night here and then tomorrow you will return. I will have to talk to the Father. I will talk to the Father and by tomorrow you will return."

    He called on one of the ground soldiers who was referred to as ground commander and General 50 told him, "Now we have got strangers you have to find a place for them to lodge" and then they lodged us. They gave us some food to eat and we ate, Prince Kosia and I. The following morning they gave us food again, we ate. Around 10 to 11 in the morning General 50 called us and we went to him at his house. He said, "Gentlemen, the things you have come for, they are ready."

    Then we left his house and we went to another place where there were two vehicles waiting. That is myself, General Kosia and his own bodyguards. We met two vehicles, a Land Rover Defender and a pick-up, a Hilux pick-up. There were ammunition in the vehicles and he gave us the vehicles and the ammunition and said, "You are here for this ammunition so we have to give you them to carry them." So he gave me fuel and I filled my tank, my motorbike tank and he gave me two gallons of fuel in reserve and I tied them by the side of the motorbike and Prince Kosia sat at the back.

  • Please stop there, Mr Witness. You said that he provided two vehicles and then you said that there was you, Kosia and his own bodyguards. Whose bodyguards are you talking about?

  • Then you said that he gave us ammunition and fuel and he gave you two gallons. Who gave you ammunition and fuel?

  • It was General 50. He told us that, "The things you have come to collect are these materials, these are ammunitions" and General 50 gave me fuel for my motorbike and I filled my tank and there were two extra gallons that he also filled and gave to me, so I tied those by the side of the motorbike and Prince Kosia jumped on top of the bike on my back and then we rode and went and those other people drove the vehicles behind us and we then unloaded the vehicles in Bomaru and then they returned.

  • Wait, Mr Witness, please. You said that, "He gave us two vehicles in Vahun." Again, to be clear, who gave you two vehicles?

  • General 50. General 50 gave us the two vehicles in which the ammunitions were and he told us that, "You came for this ammunition and that was the letter you brought." Then we went, myself and Prince Kosia.

  • Who drove these two vehicles that were given to you by General 50?

  • They were Liberians. He just took us to the vehicle and showed us the ammunition in the vehicle. The drivers were already there. They had a few men around who were there to escort the vehicles and all of us travelled to Bomaru, but they stopped there and we unloaded the vehicles there and the two vehicles returned back to Liberia.

  • What happened when in Bomaru you off-loaded the supplies?

  • We went to the commander who was residing in Bomaru, because by then the RUF were still deployed in all of those areas and we told him that we came for those materials and that we should transport them to Pendembu. So they gave us manpower and those manpower carried the loads on their head to go to Pendembu. But Prince Kosia and I still used the motorbike and we used the main highway to go back. But as they were going, when they went to a different town the soldiers who were in that town also will give manpower and they will travel to the next town and when they got to another town they will stop there also and those residing in that town will give another manpower.

    From Pendembu they went up to Manowa ferry and a vehicle moved from Pendembu and went to Manowa ferry and they took it back to Kailahun. So, Prince Kosia went back to Kailahun and I went to Pendembu.

  • Now, Mr Witness, you told us about manpower who carried these supplies. Who were these manpower that were given to carry the supplies?

  • Both commandos and strong civilian men; that is the soldiers who were on the individual grounds and the strong civilians who were residing there with them. The soldiers will always help to look out for strong civilians to carry the ammunition.

  • And what happened after that, Mr Witness?

  • After CO Issa had sent for the ammunition and all the materials to be taken to Kono, they took them there and I went back to Segbwema. CO Issa later sent a message from Kono asking us to go to Pendembu to meet the brigade commander, that is CO Denis, 1st Brigade commander. He said we should go there and receive our materials from him. Myself and another commando who was in Segbwema, called Pass-Away, both of them went there and we received 50 AK-47 rifles, the ones with the long butts. We received those from him and we placed them in a small vehicle and we took them to Segbwema, but we entered at night because civilians were amongst us and so we decided to enter with those things quietly that nobody would know about them. We shared - we distributed the arms amongst us, the commandos, so that we will sit there quietly and in case of any torment we will be able to defend ourselves.

  • Mr Witness, you spoke about someone called Pass-Away. Would you be able to spell that name for us?

  • It is P-A-S-S hyphen A-W-A-Y. That was his nickname, Pass-Away.

  • Now, you said that you received 50 AK-47 rifles. Who gave you these 50 AK-47 rifles?

  • The message came that we should go to the brigade commander, CO Denis, who was based in Pendembu. We went to him and he called on the G4 commander, where the arms were kept, and he told him that Segbwema people have come for their own materials and they gave us the materials. It was CO Denis who told the G4 commander that the Segbwema people have come for their own materials, and they gave us 50 AK-47 rifles and we also carried those and then we distributed them amongst ourselves quietly and we did not allow civilians to know about it. They were quietly kept with us so that in case of anything we will be able to defend ourselves.

  • And what happened after that, Mr Witness, when you came back to your deployment?

  • Well, we were there and the arms were kept with us under cover until the final disarmament. We did not encounter any further troubles through the CDF, we did not use the arms any longer and we did not encounter any further troubles until the final disarmament in 2001, and we also went to the Daru barracks again to disarm and finally we were reintegrated into society.

  • Thank you, Mr Witness. I do not have any further questions.

  • Thank you, Mr Werner. In the circumstances, Mr Anyah, since it is only about a minute to the lunchtime adjournment I suggest it is appropriate to commence cross-examination after that.

    Mr Witness, it is now time for the lunchtime adjournment. We are going to take one hour's break, we will start again at 2.30 and counsel for the Defence will have some questions for you.

  • Thank you, my Lord.

  • Please adjourn until 2.30.

  • [Lunch break taken at 1.30 p.m.]

  • [Upon resuming at 2.30 p.m.]

  • Now, Mr Anyah, your cross-examination, if any.

  • Yes, thank you, Madam President. Madam President, before I begin I would like to make an application to the Chamber.

  • Perhaps, although I have some indication of the Prosecution's position on this issue, if it pleases the Chamber I would like to do so outside the presence of the witness.

  • Can you indicate why?

  • Yes. The issue that I seek to raise relates to other statements that may have been made by the witness in context different from this case.

  • Mr Werner, you've heard the application.

  • Your Honour, we do not object.

  • Thank you. Mr Witness, there are some legal arguments that have to be gone through before your cross-examination starts. We are therefore going to ask the Court Officer to take you out so you can sit in the other room while these legal arguments take place. Please assist the witness.

  • [In the absence of the witness]

  • Thank you, Madam President. Thank you, counsel. The Chamber will recall that on 14 March 2008, in a decision in respect of a Defence motion to have access to certain documents from the RUF trial, Revolutionary United Front trial, in particular from the defence of the accused Issa Hassan Sesay, the Chamber granted the Defence the right to have access to certain Defence documents from the Sesay team. The CMS number for that decision is 439. The relevant portions of the orders that make up the constituent parts of that decision put some limitations on what use, if any, we can make of such materials that we obtain from the Sesay team. In particular, page 5 of the decision, and the CMS page number is 16359, states that, "The Taylor Defence shall not share or reveal any disclosed Sesay Defence witness related non-public materials to any entity." My reading of that portion of the decision means we have to seek leave of the Chamber to hand over any such materials to anybody else. So in the first instance I would --

  • Sorry, Mr Anyah, I've got page 5 in front of me and which paragraph on page 5 is it?

  • Yes, Madam President. There are two paragraph 2s on page 5. I'm referring to the second component of the order in the middle of the page that starts with the words, "The Chamber further orders that the Taylor Defence shall comply with all other aspects of the Sesay protective measures decision, including, but not limited to, the following", and then you have numbered paragraphs 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.

    Let me state, in the first instance, that the document in question is an a compilation statement and by that I mean it is a document that makes up two separate interviews held with this witness by the Sesay Defence investigators, combined into one document consisting of approximately 11 to 12 pages, and we have obtained that document from the Sesay Defence team. I personally received it, I believe, on Tuesday this week. A request was made to lead counsel for Issa Sesay, Mr Wayne Jordash, for us to use that document publicly and to also disclose it to the Prosecution. I received his approval to do so, I believe yesterday afternoon or thereabouts. I might have the days wrong, but it was the day after I obtained the statement, in the afternoon. I conveyed all of this information to counsel opposite in the morning of Wednesday, I believe, and on Tuesday afternoon, upon receiving permission, I wrote an email to counsel opposite advising him that I would be making this application.

    So we do have a statement from the Sesay Defence team in respect of this witness and going back to your Honours' orders, paragraph 2 puts a prohibition on who, if anyone, we could disclose this information to and generally, drawing from the Sesay protective measures decision, these sorts of statements are otherwise confidential and I would not be able to use them, at least this is my reading of the order, in open session.

    I have advised the Prosecution of the two applications, the first one being leave of court to disclose it to the Prosecution and the second one being leave of the Chamber to use the statement in open session. I will let the Prosecution speak to their position at the appropriate time, but to foreshadow that response, the email I received from counsel opposite was that they certainly would request that the document be disclosed to them and that they would leave it up to the Chamber in respect of the second part of my application: To decide whether or not it could be used in public.

    I do have the statement in the bundle of documents the Defence ordinarily uses in cross-examination and I can proffer - propose to the Chamber that there is nothing in the contents of the document that would compromise the security of this witness, or any other Prosecution witness. There is nothing in the content of the document that is otherwise so sensitive that it could not be aired in public and used during examination in an open session.

    So on the basis of all of that I make two applications. The first is to disclose it to the Prosecution and the second is to use the information in open session. If it would assist the Court and the Chamber wished to look at the document, I could easily hand out our Defence bundles at this time. Thank you, Madam President.

  • Thank you, Mr Anyah. Mr Werner, your response?

  • Madam President, your Honours, indeed our position is that we do not think that this statement, or these two statements compiled, could be used in cross-examination if we are not provided with a copy. Further than that, concerning the applications, we are in your Honours' hands. That is the Prosecution's position.

  • The aspect of open session, you're saying you will take whatever the Court orders?

  • Mr Anyah, it's not clear to us, did this witness testify in the Sesay trial and, if so, was it during closed session?

  • I stand to be corrected, but I do not believe he was ever called as a witness ultimately by the Defence in that case and I certainly do not believe he was called by the Prosecution either.

  • Your Honour, that is correct.

  • Mr Anyah, to assist the Bench could you please give us a copy of the document you have referred to, the compilation statement?

  • Yes, Madam President.

  • [Trial Chamber conferred]

  • We have considered the application and noted the response from the Prosecution on the two-pronged application. We first grant the order to disclose those documents contained in tab 10 of the Defence bundle to the Prosecution. Secondly, we allow the Defence to question the witness on the document in tab 10 in open court - to use the document for purposes of cross-examination may be a better way of putting it.

    Since I understand the Prosecution have not had the document, I think in fairness they should be allowed to at least get it now and familiarise themselves with it.

  • I think we already handed it over to them.

  • You have seen it, Mr Werner?

  • Yes, your Honours.

  • And you're ready to proceed now?

  • We are, your Honours.

  • Very well. In the light of that I would ask that the witness be brought back into court.

  • Thank you, your Honours.

  • [In the presence of the witness]

  • Mr Witness, as I've already told you, counsel for the Defence will have some questions. Please proceed, Mr Anyah.

  • Thank you, Madam President:

  • Good afternoon, Mr Witness.

  • Mr Witness, when you attended secondary school were you taught in English or in Krio?

  • I was taught in English.

  • And how about primary school, in what language were you taught?

  • English language.

  • And when you went to the Bunumbu Teachers College, in what language were you instructed?

  • English language.

  • And the last institution you went to, the Southern Agro-Industrial Development Association Centre, SAIDAC, in what language were you instructed?

  • It was English language.

  • Is it fair to say then that you read and write English fairly well?

  • I can read and write, but not very good.

  • When English is spoken to you, you do understand it, yes?

  • If they speak simple English to me I can understand it.

  • But in all the years during which you attended school you were instructed in English, true?

  • Yes.

  • You told us during direct examination this morning before the lunch break that you considered yourself to be part of the RUF high command, yes?

  • I did not say I considered myself. I said I was part of the RUF, a senior officer.

  • Indeed, yes, you said senior officer, but in the context of high command. Your words were to the effect that you were for all practical purposes part of the high command because you were a senior officer, yes?

  • I was a senior officer, but not a high command.

  • Well the fact that you were a senior officer allowed you to have access to information about RUF operations, true?

  • And, indeed, you told us that nothing was hidden from you and others within the RUF structure. Nothing as in no important decisions were hidden, yes?

  • Well, those that were available to me were not hidden from me.

  • Well information about where the RUF gets its arms and ammunition was not hidden from you, yes?

  • Yes, when the ammunition would arrive they would tell me where they got it from, if I asked.

  • Information about where RUF got its food supplies was not hidden from you, true?

  • Yes, I knew some of the places the RUF got their food supplies from.

  • You're saying some, "some of the places". In direct examination you said the only source - only source - of RUF food was Charles Taylor, do you recall that?

  • I said we even bought food from the Guinea riverside when we transacted business with the Guineans.

  • But you also said the only source of food - when you spoke of rice from Liberia the word you used was "only" at that time. Before you spoke of Guinea, you said the only source of food was Charles Taylor. Do you agree, Mr Witness?

  • That was one of the sources, but even when we transacted business at the Guinea riverside we bought food there.

  • So separate and apart from Charles Taylor one other source of RUF food supplies was from Guinea, yes?

  • Well, it was not supply as such. We bought it. We were transacting business.

  • Okay, it was not supply, but a source of access to food for the RUF was Guinea, true?

  • If business was being transacted at the riverside, then we would buy food there and some other commodities. It was not all the time.

  • The fact is you bought food from Guinea, yes?

  • Besides Guinea and Charles Taylor, who else did you get your food supplies from?

  • And you would know, would you not, if there was some other place from which you got food?

  • Well, I will not say I would know.

  • As a senior officer in the RUF you knew where the RUF got its medicine supplies from, yes?

  • Yes.

  • You also knew about RUF diamond transactions, yes?

  • Yes. The one that I knew about, I knew how it went.

  • But you were close to the security guards of the senior RUF commanders, people like Captain Ben and people like Banya, yes?